In response to a recent letter, a reader shared an experience he had. What are your thoughts about his “tables turned” response?
I would like to share a significant past experience. Several years ago, I approached the administration of my son’s school to request a financial adjustment due to my economic circumstances. The administrator requested a copy of my tax return, posed highly personal questions regarding my spending habits, and sought to review my credit card statements. Following his review of these documents, he expressed uncertainty regarding his ability to provide assistance. After a subsequent discussion with the board, they approved an annual reduction of $50. I articulated the necessity for a more substantial reduction. The administrator then informed me that the school was not a charitable institution and suggested I explore alternative options. Consequently, I was compelled to secure an additional mortgage on my property. My girls attended a school where i was respected and paid a basic tution. I told them if i ever make money i will iyh give them big time.
Several years later, my business achieved considerable success bh, and my children completed their education. One day, I received a phone call from the school, and I anticipated their request. Initially, I did not respond. A week later, a different, more affable administrator visited my residence. Upon opening the door, he greeted me warmly and commented on the passage of time since our last interaction. I requested that he remind me of his name, and he appeared visibly uncomfortable. He then inquired about my appreciation for my children’s school. I subtly questioned whether he recalled the necessity of my obtaining a mortgage to meet the monthly payments. He claimed no recollection of the matter, simply stating that as a parent, I should contribute to the school given the excellent education my children received. I responded that I could not contribute financially until I had thoroughly reviewed all their financial records, including credit card statements. Only then could I assess my ability to provide support, without any guarantees. He reluctantly stated that he was unsure if he could provide those records. I reiterated my inability to contribute without them.
A week later, he returned with a spreadsheet. I meticulously scrutinized the document, employing the same rigorous and probing questioning he had previously directed at me, inquiring about various expenditures with a condescending tone. Ultimately, I informed him that I would review the information and revert to him. He subsequently emailed me daily. After three weeks, I responded, stating that after a thorough review of their records, I recognized their genuine financial need and would contribute $50. He expressed his dismay, emphasizing the effort involved in operating a school. I countered that if he found the amount unsatisfactory, he was at liberty to seek contributions elsewhere, as there are many affluent individuals in the community.
I have specifically indicated my reluctance to support organizations that have previously engaged in inappropriate conduct, notwithstanding their financial prosperity. Conversely, I wish to commend Bais Faiga, the educational institution attended by my daughters, to which I consistently contribute amounts substantially exceeding $50.
This institution operates with a strong community focus and has consistently exhibited a collaborative ethos, offering support whenever necessary. Their tuition model is notably cost-effective. It is imperative to cease the practice of mistreating individuals and subsequently anticipating their cooperation, as this approach is ultimately unsustainable. School administrators are encouraged to cultivate essential interpersonal skills. The principle of reciprocity suggests that institutions fostering positive relationships with parents tend to achieve greater success in fundraising, an inherently challenging endeavor. Please understand that individuals’ sense of responsibility towards you is directly proportional to your perceived responsibility towards them. Mistreatment will inevitably result in negative repercussions.
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April fools. Some guy wishes this was true
There are many wealthy people who can relate to this. I had a similar experience, though my details were a bit different. I wasn’t able to pay and had a terrible experience. I became wealthy and refuse to contribute to the school. That isn’t nekama. It’s a simple, straightforward relationship. So while the author might have violated Nekama by giving the same experience, he could have simply said “I’m not donating.” His message was crystal clear. I agree with the message; I would change the delivery, though.
I had a similar experience but the opposite.
My sons school was totally understanding and did not give me a hard time about reducing my tuition (by about 15%).
Since then I’ve earned enough to start giving back and they are my first address for donations.
Hmm. Classic example of לא תיקום ולא תיטור. So no, your response was inappropriate despite the circumstances you felt warranted it.
All the negative comments here are likely from people heavily involved in those schools that have this issue, while some parts of the story seem doubtful, like the yeshiva providing all their financials to a parent, the point of the article is clear.
There might be a better way to raise funds for your Yeshiva.
This is not cute. It’s called nekoma and assur m’doraisa.
Sounds like these are all admins responding!!!! What about hurting another jew?! The pain humiliation and rejection that parents deal with?!
100 percent allowed. This issur is v Nakama is only on people. The administrator is a animal for doing what he did.An animal gets treated differently than a person. Is there a issur nekama on a dog?!!! Have u got no shame. According To The same Torah administrator have no right to hurt people. The fact that he had no remorsevwhen confreonted makes me vomit. He was only focused on his needs. That narssastic behavior is uncalled for ans is deserving of this response
Nice psak. Not from the torah
“Non charitable organizations” should not collect charity!
My thoughts exactly!
Sounds like Nekama but even if not its not something to be proud of although I kinda like the way he got them back but at the same time a Yid has to sometimes put away his own feelings and treat people nicely even if they were wronged by that person! Its not our job in this world to teach people lessons the hard way! Also, if one would truly believe that everything is from Hashem then this guy truly has nothing to do with you having to take out another mortgage and nothing he said to you should affect how much you give to that Yeshiva. So, Noone is perfect and if you respond like that I cannot blame you however Dont think it is the RIGHT way of responding- I guarantee you someone on his way to becoming a gadol hador would not act like this!!!
Yeah, I totally think administrators deserve this! What goes around comes around, you know? The Lakewood Cheder has always treated me with respect, so I definitely prioritize giving them tzedaka over others. It’s a two-way street. You can’t expect parents to contribute to your kids’ school if you’re just giving them grief. It’s true that a lot of parents who don’t have much money can easily raise 10k for one kid’s school, but only 500 for another! The reason is simple: it’s all about how they’re treated. What goes around comes around.
Well played. I don’t know if this a lo sikom – everyone has tovas hanaah to decide where his tzedakah goes. As far as the drawn out process, I belive that’s was real live chinuch.
I smell troll.
One can dream though
You are saying that hashem sent them a test and they failed.
Now Hashem is testing you. You can choose now to pass or fail. The ball is in your hands.
wow what a vivid imagination how old are five?!
Dear Lakewood Community,
I think too many people think it is important to knock down their old house and rebuild it into a new luxury home. I think it is a huge mistake, and remember: tuition takes away most of your money, and going on luxury trips and spending so much on your kids’ desires is also wrong. You should use money for tuition, camp, clothing, and food nothing else. We have to be careful in our spending. Your children are the most important thing, not a luxury. A bar mitzvah should be small, not big, and you can invite the neighborhood to wish mazel tov, but don’t overspend unnecessarily. Try to limit spending. Today, Lakewood thinks it has to be luxury; otherwise, other people will make fun of you, and that isn’t true. We are not here to celebrate luxury, and we are in sad Galus, and we need the truthful Geulah to feel closer to Hashem. Please realize how important this is.
Definitely fake tho the administration made it clear they aren’t a charity organization so why are they soliciting donations
To ask for a break we arent a tzedaka but we cant ask for a contribution? Not a contradiction.
Love this
Ok. So you’re basically just displaying your pettiness.
As a school administrator with extensive experience, I can fully empathize with the challenges faced by school administrators. I too have had a similar experience. Did u forget to say that the school was already packed and as administrators say we only will add more desks if it’s a full tuition parent that happens very very often and when told that you cannot go ahead my parents and pay for tuition schools have right to say we have exhausted our discount to tuition something I tell parents all the time you see in every class there are certain slots that I give out for reduced tuition after that I only accept full tuition this way my budget is covered as much as possible telling a parent that there are options of Cheaper schools it’s not something terrible if the parent can’t pay . Parents often lack awareness of the financial intricacies involved in operating an educational institution. If tuition fees are not levied, we are compelled to offer inadequate compensation to our dedicated staff. We aim to prevent our parents from having to undertake significant financial burdens, such as mortgages, to sustain themselves. It is crucial for stakeholders to recognize that financial resources must originate from a source. The individual in question should acknowledge the concession of a $50 reduction. I do not typically offer discounts, as schools operate as private entities and are not obligated to accommodate enrollment at a desired price point. Furthermore, your dissatisfaction with the administrator suggests a lack of appreciation for the efforts of your children’s rabbis and staff, who have invested their utmost. Have you considered offering assistance to the rabbis, teachers, and principals separately, given your concerns with the school? Are you a discontented individual who vents frustrations in inappropriate settings? The staff should not bear the brunt of your issues with this administrator. Where is your gratitude for the staff who have dedicated themselves to your child’s well-being? I am not favorably impressed.
Thank you for proving The Writer’s point precisely the rabbis were not coming asking for money nor were the principals it was that same administrator he deserves everything plus plus if you walk the way Shaman humiliated and realizes he can’t get his way anymore even if it helps for five parents to be nicer till he goes back to his old way it’s well worth it we have to stop the complaining the people aren’t supporting our institutions we’re not supporting them I love how they say how come no one supports our school how come no one sees our value system do you see the value system in your parents do you see the value system in the kids or is it a business you can’t operate in a Corporate Way and expect people to contribute to you if you talk corporate the parents they’ll talk corporate to you
Is it just me, Or is punctuation not visible on TLS? If it’s you simply not using punctuation, I’d suggest doing so if you actually intend for someone to read your comment.
I started reading and then got dizzy. It’s unreadable. Hopefully your communication is better when soliciting funds. All though, it’s doubtful your a school administrator.
What a total caricature of a school administrator! this has got to be a troll and he did an excellent job of trolling!
Thank you for this incredible and PERFECT response. Absolutely beautiful. Beautiful in what you did, how you did it, and beautiful in what you wrote in the last part about how what you do to others will come right back at you.
The reality is that the parents are the clients and the school is the business. We all know that any business that treats its clients like drek cannot succeed. A business that treats its clients like people – or in the case of parents and schools like partners – which they really are in the chinuch of children – such a business will see success.
Embarrassing someone is something that can cause one to lose their Oilam Habba and is something that is so sensitive and so important to stay away from in the eyes of the RBSO. When a school makes it that a parent has to open up and share all of their private information, has to undress publicly, has to allow for “committees” and “executives” to review their personal lives and decisions, all just to live a life they can manage, is unacceptable and the highest level of humiliation. A person should never feel that wherever they go, whatever they do and the decisions they make, they are being watched and scrutinized by people in their community (especially people of means who have absolutely no concept of what it means to not know how your going to pay your bills or feed your family month to month). And like you wrote, if the school feels they have the right to do this so they can determine if you need a scholarship, then you have the right to do the same to determine if they need your donation. Yes, in this case 2 wrongs do in fact make a right because if we all do what this person did, then hopefully the system will change.
Just as a by the way, anyone who reads this article should be nauseous that the scholarship offered was $50. What a disgusting response.
true or not is not the point. I get that schools need money to run and everything. the point is the way they go about it! the scrutiny, the embarrassment…. most (maybe not all) people asking for a break really need it. they are not going on yearly cruises or long vacations overseas. they are people second guessing they’re regular bills…. “should we pay the electric bill or tuition this month”. and if for whatever reason there is a “luxury purchase” they are asked about it till they throw up from embarrassment! it’s ridiculous and insane!! something needs to be done
Parents genuinely want to pay tuition. They can only pay what they could afford if the schools demand insane and unaffordable amounts parents just throw in the towel and dont pay. There needs to be communication. The schools need to sit down with the parents and discuss what they can afford to pay and let them at least pay that amount. To get harassing phone calls from administrators is not a mehalech. To ignore and not pay is also not the way to go. Parents are very stressed these days with $$$. Housing is u affordable and everything else they need in expensive. Day camps have become a luxury hi ticket item and then the kids unaligned schedule costs parents 1k for this 1 week. Bottom line is there needs to be communication not harassing phone calls
Delicious. Lesson learned. Business people also need to treat customers with respect. When you state that your school is not a charitable organization, you have no right to collect money under the guide of Tzedaka.
I think he did a toiva for all the other parents that are put through the wringer with no rachmonus. Teaches the administrators that the tables can and do turn and their actions could have consequences
I too had children in a yeshiva that was very understanding of my situation then. I give them now continuously and have them in my will. Pure hakoras hatov.
As some indicated, the response was nit appropriate and is nekoma. You could’ve respectfully said that you do not wish to contribute…
See past the pettiness and do the right thing.
Not every administrator etc knows how to do their job appropriately.
What does that have to do with contributing to a school that your children gained from!?
The administrator isn’t the school itself, even though he is the face of the school, financially.
He showed his appreciation by giving fifty bucks. The administrator should acknowledge this. Isn’t fifty bucks like a tuition reduction? This contribution came after a board meeting, which really highlights how much fifty dollars means. About the appreciation for the school comment, I totally disagree. If you went to a restaurant and the food was good but the waiter was terrible, the lighting was bad, it was freezing cold, no heat, but a great chef, would you still give it a great rating? Would you tell other people to go there? I wonder why. What if you called a contractor for repairs and his worker was disgusting to you? Would you recommend them to others, even if it’s just a worker? The writer’s whole experience was pain and agony throughout the process. It’s really hard for someone in that much pain to be expected to be appreciative. They went through a grueling and emotionally draining process. You’d do the same if you went through it too.
This is awesome!!!
I understand why schools have to probe – because even peoplr who could afford ask (although the school should do so in a respectful manner).
I understand why he would feel that just like they didn’t trust him implicitly he didn’t have to trust them.
As far as the question whether it was appropriate – let me rephrase the question: is vindictiveness and nekama appropriate?
It is not a matter of deception. The administrator could have offered an apology and acknowledged the error. He did not pretend to be unaware that he had provoked an individual on two occasions during the first parent-teacher meeting by claiming ignorance. Can you imagine if he had apologized profusely, what the outcome might have been? It likely would have greatly impressed this individual. Instead, he arrived completely feigning that nothing had occurred. Can you imagine if his records had been impeccable and he had apologized and committed to treating parents with more consideration, how this wealthy individual might have responded? Probably much more favorably. The administrator missed an opportunity to transform a disgruntled parent into a significant potential donor. His lack of social skills caused him to err not once, but twice.
Perhaps time has come for yeshivas to accept federal/state funding, with the strings that come with it. Kids will learn more maths ? What’s the treif in maths?
They might even learn English well enough to comment on TLS in a coherent manner! 😀 (Halevai)
True baalei chesed/tzedaka help and give based on the need, not on how someone in the institution acts towards them. This is truly an example of giving (or not giving) to the individual, not to the cause. One day you should reach this level iyH, and give to mosdos that need the help.
I witnessed an even higher level by a renown baal tzedaka, who was called by someone to help with a chasuna. The father of the Kallah was a rebbi who mistreated his son, causing him to leave the yeshiva. When he realized who it was for he DOUBLED the donation, to overcome his bad feelings. מי כעמך ישראל.