It’s no secret that the Shidduch Crisis is spiraling out of control – but something must be done before it gets even worse.
In an effort to bring about real change and ease the suffering of the thousands of Bnos Yisroel, TLS & Scoop Outdoor are announcing a never-seen-before incentive: $100,000 in free advertising dollars.
As the Gedolei Hador wrote in a letter, change and narrowing the Shidduch age gap would happen if Yeshivas began sending Bachurim to Eretz Yisroel at an earlier age, and have the Bachurim return at an earlier age to begin Shidduchim.
The Gedolim wrote: Our community finds itself in an increasingly difficult situation, with thousands of Bnos Yisroel getting older and not finding their zivug. With Hashem’s help, it has become clear that the primary cause of this is that bochrim generally marry girls who are a number of years younger. Since the population increases every year and there are more girls entering shidduchim than boys, many girls are left unmarried.
Clearly, the way to remedy this terrible situation is to reduce the age disparity in shidduchim. Many Chassidic communities who do not have age disparities in shidduchim are not facing this tragic situation of numerous unmarried girls. Therefore, it is incumbent on all of us to work diligently to save our daughters from this plight and it is assur for anyone who can help to stand passively by. For all Yidden are responsible for each other and the Torah cries out to us, “Lo Sa’amod al Dam Rei’echa!”
A key component of the solution is to have our sons marry at a younger age. And in order to accomplish this, it would be good for the bochurim to come back earlier from Eretz Yisroel. While this is not a total solution, calculations show that if bochurim would begin shidduchim one year earlier on average, then within ten years, over a thousand women would be saved from lifelong iggun.
Therefore, we have come to publicize our opinion that there is an obligation on the Yeshivos and Roshei Yeshiva to find ways to enable the bochurim to begin shidduchim at a younger age including encouraging them to return sooner from Eretz Yisroel.
We are also calling on the bochurim themselves to return from Eretz Yisroel at a younger age in order to be ready to get married at the appropriate time. Through their nesias ol, they will merit true Kinyan Torah, reaching ever-greater heights, and they will be zoche to build a Bayis Ne’eman B’Yisroel L’shem U’siferes.”
Kol Korei re Boys younger from Gedolei EY only - Teiveis 2012 (1) 2It’s there clearly, and change will happen when the guidance of the Gedolei Hador is followed.
This incentive is for those Yeshivas who heed the guidance of the Gedolei Hador, and actually implement this change.
The first five Yeshivas in America or Eretz Yisroel who implement this policy change, will each receive $20,000 in ad dollars to be used on either TLS or Scoop Outdoor – the largest digital advertising network in the Lakewood region, with over 8,000,000 monthly views.
The advertising dollars can be used for any Yeshiva-related campaigns, such as dinner campaigns, building campaigns and more.
Should your Yeshiva wish to take advantage of this offer, please contact us at [email protected]. The offer is valid until the claimed, or until Shavuos.
What about the older singles? Should they just be left behind??
You are the reason we can’t have nice things around here.
Agree or disagree, somebody is putting their money where their mouth is, you complaining that they are not doing something regarding something else is both distasteful, and inappropriate.
This is amazing. Ashrecha Yisroel. Kudos to the scoop. This is a significant step on your behalf to try and help the Bnos Yisrael. I have newfound respect for you
This is an AMAZING thing. Thanks so much for doing this. It helps alleviate some of the pain. Cannot thank you enough for this.
I have heard that there is BH a movement to end Fourth Year Bais Midrash in Lakewood Boruch Hashem. This is welcome news. I thank TLS for all that you have done/do for Klal Yisroel. This is long overdue for us to make important changes. This is the First Mitzvah in the Torah. This is Chizuk HaDaas!
What about vthr older singles? Should they be left behind??
Please share with us what our Gedolai Yisroel here in America, our Aynay Hoayda say. BH we are Zoche to a Moetzes Gedolay Hatorah, a Vaad Roshei Yeshivos and many Tzadikkim here in America, still alive BH, who I am sure as a whole group have a very strong opinion on this matter. Our Chachmei Hador no doubt want to see all of our Bochurim and Bnos Yisroel married. What is their current opinion on age being a factor in the Shidduch crisis.
Firstly, the EY gedolim were approached by the American RY to issue directives in this matter.
Additionally, I would plead with you to approach the American RY and let them know the calamity that is going on and ask them what they say. I am sure they will want to help as they definitely want to see all bnos yisroel married. Their silence, (besides for Rav Elya Ber) on a problem of this magnitude, up to this point, is deafening and klal yisroel cant wait another day for change to happen
Why is it so difficult to realize that the American Roshei Yeshiva are very well aware of the problem. Do you think they don’t know? Do you think they don’t care? Do you think they are not in pain and davening for ALL to get married?
They live in a different world then ours BH. They live in a world steeped with Toirah and Musser. They live and breathe Emuna and Bitachon in a way we don’t. Look at the Siyata Dishmaya they have. They are BH Roshei Yeshiva, leaders and successful in their Avodah. Their silence is not deafening. Their silence is their word spoken.
What do you want them to do? Get up and say they don’t agree just to have hundreds of us simpleton commentators hiding behind fake names on a website bash them that they don’t get it? Seriously, what do you want from them?
Years ago I had the opportunity to be with the Masgiach Shlita, may he have a refua shelayma, at a time where there were many harsh tzoros happening in our camp. I asked the Mashgiach why doesn’t he speak publicly about what we should do. He smiled at me, stroked my hand and said I do speak as do so many other Gedolim. I keep saying we must increase our efforts in Teffila. Problem is (the Mashgiach continued) nobody wants to hear that. People today think we need to fix things and we need segulos. What we need is people coming to Shul on time and not leaving early. We need phones off – not on silent – off – by davening. We need to use a siddur and understand what we are saying. That’s what the Mashgiach told me. I’m a nobody but as a nobody I would venture to say that what the mashgiach said then applies to now. It’s all in Teffila. The one place in our lives where hishtadlus is not a requirement is Shidduchim. Minimal basic hishtadlus yes but not more. Overhauling a system, claiming our Mechanchim are not as smart as our balei batim, turning shadchanim into a business is not gonna change anything.
I dont know why there are tragedies, why people are sick, why people have no Parnasa, why singles are not married. I don’t know why and neither do you. But Hashem does. He has a plan. Sometimes that plan is a very difficult challenging path.
As a side note, I mentioned my conversation with the Mashgiach to the Philadelphia Rosh Yeshiva Horav Shmuel Shlita and he nodded in total agreement saying the Oilam daf vissen as ales is in Der Koiach Hateffila. Mir daf davenen un davenen un davenen.
On a personal note, as a parent with 3 children in shidduchim (2 being older girls) I had 3 opportunities in the last 4 years to get a specific Brocha from Rav Chaim ZTL for Shidduchim for my children. In ALL 3 visits instead of a Buha Rav Chaim first said teffila then said Buha.
Daven for me. I’ll daven for you
the current system evolved due to a combination of secular high school/college on one side and Eretz Yisroel on the other but every single Da’as Torah agree that today it needs to be overhauled
Beautiful message! Well said.
Thank you
But totally not applicable to what we are dealing with here.
Yes, tefilla is everything and we all must daven that our daughters find shidduchim but that is not what this campaign is about. Rather we are fighting for klal yisroel’s problem which is that there are not enough boys. It is obvious and Rav Elya Ber said it very clearly, tefilla will not create boys that are just not there. The only fix for that that we can and must daven for is that the RY find the strength to do something quickly to eliminate the gap.
Not sure what you are saying. The talmidim in south fallsburg do not start dating at 19 or 20. They don’t even start at 21 or 22. Rav Eli Ber is not referring to the boys sitting and learning. Just ask him. When he spoke he was speaking to those boys that are not planning to sit and learn so in his eyes let them get started in shidduchim. The problem is the girls are looking for boys who what plan to learn so they don’t want those 19 and 20 year old ready to go work boys.
Teffila is EVERYTHING and is exactly what is needed here. For each child waiting to get married they have a Besho Tova and until that right moment comes it won’t happen. That is except for Teffila because Teffila can change anything.
So talk to the Roshei Yeshiva (like I have) before commenting on what you think they are saying. Hear it from them. Ask the South Fallsburg Rosh Yeshiva if he was including his talmidim when he spoke about the age gap. Obviously from the fact that his Talmidim don’t start in shidduchim so young and Obviously the Rosh Yeshiva is all about emes, you will find that those bochurim learning are not his target.
So yes my friend. Daven and Daven that the right shidduch for each si gle should come quickly and not later.
I feel bad for the situation you are in. As Frum Yidden we don’t blame Hashem or others for the situations we are in. However there is no such problem in Israel or by the Chassidim. Hence the Gedolim of Israel and America have stated that serious changes MUST be made. If there’s a need for a child to have heart surgery in Boston Klal Yisrael gets together because it’s Pikuach Nefesh. We cannot undermine that the quicksand that the Litvish World is sinking into with Shidduchim is getting worse and worse. If we make changes, our Gedolim who were Niftar and contemporary Gedolim say will make the situation better. Change is always hard but we shouldn’t have let it go in a free fall 20 years ago
Dear MR. OY VEI
You either have a severe listening disorder or you are a simple deranged LIAR. If you would take the 5 minutes to just listen to what Rav Elya Ber actually said you would be embarrassed to lie like that since it is a מילתא דעבידא לגלויי as the video is out there for all to see and hear. Not one word that you wrote in the name of Rav Elya Ber is true and therefore you are a הוחזק שקרן and what you wrote in the name of the other RY is a lie as well. You should be ashamed of yourself.
If you find solace only in Tefillah Kol HaKavod. Chazal say Tefillah Oseh Mechtzeah. When it comes to Parnassah do you only Daven or do you also have your wife work or learn in a Kollel that pays? Or perhaps you work. Either way the Yeshivos CANNOT put in place policies that will harm Bnos Yisrael. END OF DISCUSSION. This is what the Gedolim were saying is flawed and wrong. They have to realize that not making changes to this broken Litvish system is an Akeras HaDaas!!!!!
In my experience (I did not go to EY, went to BMG at 21), each bochur has a conversation with their R”Y about what is best for them.
Many Roshei Yeshiva feel that going to EY is not good for their Bochurim, so they try and prolong it as long as possible.
Ultimately, the Bochurim insist on going, so they begrudgingly send them while davening that they are not affected by the mishigas around them.
Appealing to (or insulting) the Roshei Yeshiva will not change the insistence from the Bochurim on going, nor will it change the fact that the Roshei Yeshivah still feel that it is a detriment for young Bochurim to go.
Stupid beyond stupid excuse. A R”Y should be pushing their talmidim to grow and become the best yid they can be. Everything else is un important. Additionally, for the most part these R”Y don’t have any long term say about these bachurim. They are influenced by the clique status that exists today and nothing else matters. If you polled people in (moderated) under 50 you will find that an extremely high percentage don’t have a rebbi they talk to for hadracha. Meaning for themselves and their family. The rebbi doesn’t know their spouse and children to properly guide. I believe the number can be as high as 75%.
With all day respect. Please point to one other example when they got involved from Israel. They don’t get involved with the USA unless they are asked. You have to understand in this situation thousands of girls or their parents came to Israel crying to them, saying that it is broken in the United States. They opine that change is necessary. As they wrote in their letter this is Pikuach Nefesh.
they didn’t have to go to Eretz Yisroel, when Rav Aharon Leib Steinman zt”l cam to the Torah Umesorah convention almost 20 yrs ago there was a very long line of single Morah’s and worried older Rebbeim coming to get a bracha for a shidduch, and he saw the problem firsthand.
As the Gedolim wrote in their letter:
“Therefore we have come to publicize our opinion that there is an obligation on the Yeshivas and the Rosh Yeshivos to find ways to enable the Bochurim to begin Shidduchim at a younger age including encouraging them to return sooner from Eretz Yisrael”.
It is incumbent on all of us to encourage our Rosh Yeshivos in America and enable them to make changes to our broken system to help our daughters. It is a huge undertaking but the Gedoli HaDor believed that our Rosh Yeshivos in America can and will do their utmost to save the Bnos Yisrael
Unless the clique called (moderated) style ends, nothing will change.
Let us say that Yankel is supposed to marry Faigy. What difference does it make if Yankel is 24 and Faigy is 22, or if Yankel is 21 and Faigy is 19? It is still one boy who will marry one girl! Every single boy who is getting married is marrying a GIRL! By lowering the age when boys get married will initially put more boys into the marrying pool, but still, a boy can only marry one girl. He will just do it a couple of years earlier. Besides, once the age gap is closed in a few years, what will you blame the shidduch crisis on then? The bottom line is that the pool of girls looking for a specific type of of boy is larger than the pool of those boys. This doesn’t even take into account the fact that, both boys AND girls will be getting married before they are really ready for it if they are both 19.
By the way, who says there is no shidduch crisis in places where there is not an age gap, such as E”Y and amongst the Chassidishe circles? And if there isn’t, perhaps it is because the girls are not so picky about the boy they marry? If the parents say it is good, then they go ahead with it. The girls don’t over-analyze their dates. In any case, one boy is marrying one girl.
Amazing questions! Please take a few minutes from your overloaded schedule and with an open mind watch the clip from the Aguda Convention that has been linked numerous times and all your questions will be answered. I am pretty sure that Rav Elya Ber is also aware that “every single boy who is getting married is marrying a girl”.
by getting married earlier and showing the Eibershter that we care about kedusha we will be zoche to a ruach tahara coming down from Heaven in this country and there will be an improvement on all levels and those older girls will also find suitable older boys to marry, boys who will B’Ezras Hashem have grown stronger in their ruchniyus in the wake of the general chizuk, additionally parents will also become stronger in their focus and understand that it is worthwhile for an older single girl to get married to a Shomer Torah Umitzvos even if he also works most of the day, and it is almost always not worth it to get divorced chas veshalom, and so, hopefully many more older girls and older boys will settle down together happily.
The boys and girls have no clue what they want or should be looking for in a shidduch. It’s all about what they are told to want by the system.
TLS, bear in mind that that letter is from 11 years ago. Maybe you should try to get an updated letter? Are the Rabbanim still saying that? Yes I know R’Elya Ber Wachfogel Shlita is on board (from that clip a year and a half ago) but are other Rabbanim and Roshei Yeshiva on board?
If they said it 11 years ago when the numbers of single girls were a fraction of what they are today do you think they would change their mind now??
Please speak to the other RY and let them know what is going on and hear what they say. Rabbonim are definitely on board because they see and experience the disaster every moment of the day. If they were in the driver seat this would have been corrected long ago. Speak to Rav Deutch etc. At the Aguda Convention question and answer session it was clear that his heart is broken to pieces over the matzav and that he is trying what he can to change the conditions on the ground.
How about the school crisis campaign. There are many many children without schools?
caused by the same need to be stuck up and better than others. No school wants to accept any student that’s not a super star, a+ student. If the student goes OTD, doesn’t matter.
This is thousands of Agunos…… as they wrote in their letter. They understood all the calculations you wrote. This is thousands of lives at stake. We have to listen to them even if it means putting the Litvish Yeshivah system the way it was 25 years ago.
the first yeshiva was Torah Vodaas and the Rosh Yeshiva Harav Yaakov Kamenetsky zt”l said that one should not begin shidduchim before the age of 20, and he also said that they should learn at least one year full time in Bais Medrash before going at night to Brooklyn College, so at 18 the boy would learn full time for the first time in his life and if he liked it he would go to Bais Medrash Elyon or to Lakewood and continue to shteig and if he was not cut out for that then he would go to night school at the age of 19 for a year and at 20 he would begin shidduchim, and many got engaged by 21, this was back in the days when there was not much parnassah, support, etc., whereas today there is not even an 8th grade limudei chol in many Lakewood schools so the boys are learning full time for 6 full years by the time they are 19 and should they choose to get married at that age there are many kollelim who can and willingly would support them to continue learning at least for another 5 years and by then we would for sure see many many more yungerleit staying in learning or getting shtellers because the entire system would have stronger underpinnings of kedusha, let’s accept the truth, the current system has caused more yungerleit to leave kollel early even where they had the intellectual kochos and the financial backing to continue learning for many more years, just because of the years spent unjustifiably postponing this vital mitzvah which is essential for Torah in kedusha and tahara, besides the issue of middos and achrayus to the girls.
Roshie yeshiva may as well close up shop if what is being suggested is implemented. Hence, there is wont be any yeshiva taking up this offer. Without talmidim a yeshiva ceases to exist. If boys leave to EY two years earlier every BM enrollment will be slashed by more than half. Why would and RY sign on the something like that?
Attention TLS:
I was thinking of opening up a yeshiva, but, as of yet, I don’t have the financial resources to do it. However, with $20,000 in free ad dollars to be used on TLS and Scoop Outdoor, I think I could advertise my future yeshiva, and get the ball rolling, and use the advertising publicity to raise the necessary cash to open my mossad.
The question is: Would TLS give me the free ad dollars even though my yeshiva is not up and running yet, and even though it is a project that is still in its initial stages, being conceived, worked out and completed all in my mind?
I mean, let’s face it, TLS: I still don’t have the bachurim or the rebbeim or the seforim or the seats or the shtenders or the tape library or the building yet, and I’m still looking for a piece of land upon which to build the yeshiva. But I’ve definitely got big plans; that’s for sure!
As far as billboard advertising is concerned, I can get an artist rendition of what I think the yeshiva building will probably look like, and we can use that for the billboard.
If TLS gives me the free ad dollars, I’m certain that I can succeed in building one of the greatest institutions of higher learning ever known to the yeshiva world.
And rest assured that my yeshiva will definitely comply with the “policy change” that you are requesting. In fact, it won’t even be a policy change for me, because I’ve never had a yeshiva, or a policy yet.
TLS, the ball is in your court, and so is my future yeshiva. I’m waiting to receive a positive response from you. Hopefully, I will be counted among the 5 lucky winners who receives those free ad dollars. Thanks so much.
Chag Sameach.
Your cynicism is upsetting. BH the Scoop is doing something to help the Bnos Yisrael. I’m so proud of this initiative. This is far far far from a joking matter. Please keep the momentum going. We can help make so many more Shidduchim with necessary changes.
What an incredible initiative, gesture, and stance by TLS. The definition of putting your money where your mouth is. (No surprise coming from you.)
Do not be discouraged by the naysayers or the duly unhelpful peanut gallery. This is both a tremendous monetary and symbolic offer and can hopefully be the start of a snowball effect.
Momentum is building to stop this tragedy that is unfolding before our eyes, and sometimes it takes a slow but steady chorus to make inroads and create change.
Everyone. Do not be silent. This concept is neither farfetched nor fantasy. This is math and data, and this is an achievable goal. Spread the message and keep the pressure going, respectfully of course, on all our Roshei Yeshivos: Send. Them. Earlier.
TLS should be praised for being at the forefront of this movement and one of the first out of the gate!
Beautiful that TLS is taking initiative, and putting money out there for this.
However – why is everyone so convinced there is no problem is EY, and this is the solution??
Just got off the phone with someone who lives there, and his response was “Halevai there was no shidduch crisis here in EY!!”
And it’s scary when we, who are definitely NOT daas torah (speaking at least for myself), are trying to pressure and mix in to daas Torah decision, as if we know better.
EY does not have a crisis anywhere near the magnitude that we have here where thousands of very good girls from very good families that are even willing and able to support do not get one yes from a boy for many many months and sometimes years.
Those who are in it know what we’re talking about and those who are not should control their foolish mouths and stop preaching and pulling out the scary daas torah and bitochon cards. Rather they should think about another yid, actually, thousands of other yidden and do something to help their brethren because, trust me, if you don’t wake up now the day will come when this crisis will hit you as well and let’s see your piousness and hisbatlus to daas torah when your family’s future c”v goes up in smoke.
The Girls are too picky.
” Not shayahch ! ”
Sorry !
Dear shadchan of 30 years
Perhaps you should publicize your contact info so that the thousands of non picky girls can reach out to you and be helped since the sole issue is the girls being picky
They need to reach out to themselves . Not to me.
I love this tefilla is everything approach, really genius! I was diagnosed with diabetes and I kept eating copious amounts ofsugar. I davened and davened and the doctors cut off my foot to save my life. I davened some more but that didn’t remove my diabetes and I kept eating more sugar and I lost my other leg and arm. Typing this now with one of my three fingers that I have left. Us humans keep messing things up and ruining His world and constantly make the wrong choices and then turn to Him to fix our problems. This isn’t a His problem this an our problem by and large. We messed this up royally in thousands of different ways including having the boys go to E”Y at such a late age and we have the utter chutzpah to shift this on Him when bederech sheadam rotzeh lelech moleechen oso. We daven to Him to save us from utter stupidity and foolishness and we turn it into a mitzvah of bitachon. When the truth is we are just too lazy and too weak admit that this our fault and we need to change. Our kids are dysfunctional because we didn’t invest the right values and truths into them but were caught up in gashmius and the perception of others. We passed up tons of shidduchim because of the most foolish of reasons not the last if which is money. So now our children already passed their zivug because we rejected that person because of our own shallowness and stupidity. This has nothing to do with Him but everything to do with our own misguided priorities and shtuyot. With teshuva gemurah and an entire paridigm shift on who we are and what He wants from us and why we are in His world there is a possibility that we can fix this for the future but other than that we must say yadeinu shafcu…
Excellent Moshul!!!!!
Should be used more often. Thanks so much for this. Really helpful. Let’s hope that the Young Roshei Yeshivos listen and send them earlier. We have no choice. Too many Karbanos.
The “early marriage=going to work” linkage is false. The understanding that a long time learner is the one who gets married later, and the one who gets married earlier is not cut out for learning, that is the root of the problem. Many potential learners are not the type to go to Eretz Yisroel and can and want and should get married earlier, and then maybe go to Eretz Yisroel and maybe not.
But the fact that the entire system imposes an extended wait on boys and girls, that is what is wrong here and it causes not only this problem but other problems as well.
The system has to be revamped to allow earlier marriage for learners and workers alike, while allowing for going to Eretz Yisroel either before or after the wedding.
With money it is easier to implement change, and money in this country is not scarce.
To Mr. oy vey. All I can say is oy vey- you clearly did not watch one moment of the video yet you are out and about with pages of pirush on it.
Why is no one suggesting that bochurim cut out the whole going to learn in EY?
Instead they are being told to go earlier, thereby losing 1-2 years of Beis Medrash learning which is the most formative to the development of their learning. Going to EY is basically a party, with few who actually shteig there.
My support for the whole “boys getting married earlier” initiative is very low due to this very point. The askonim, while we’ll meaning, are not aware of the tremendous yerida the dor will have if we remove 1-2 years from the boys learning.
It might be that we need to pay a price in order to save the many single girls, but it should be done with seichel.
Ultimately, how to correct this is up to the RY. If they decide no EY then so be it and many of us will agree to you that this is the best way to go as there is not much to gain by going. But what you need to understand is that the whole EY is pushed by some RY who are very into the whole brisk thing for whatever reason so ultimately they need to decide what to let go of.
It’s interesting how you are not sure whether saving generations of girls is a worthwhile endeavor to pay a price for. I’m not sure what happened to the basic middah of rachmonus and the basic regard for kedushas yisroel. It should also be obvious to anyone with a basic understanding of how the world operates that continuing this trend will have a detrimental impact on the ruchnius of klal yisroel. When vast numbers of our people rcm”l lose hope תוצאותיו מי ישורנה. I would rather not elaborate on what I mean but המבין יבין.
Rav Elya Ber in the linked video actually suggested just that so nothing new here
Stop this going to EY before marriage; it’s just a vacation for the boy’s!!
Does anyone know what goes on with the boys in EY?? I do, and it’s a disaster. I am not saying all of the boys are doing the wrong thing, but enough of them are to stop this whole thing!!
Let them get married and then go to EY with their wife, and then they will really accomplish a lot.
+100000000
Most of the rosh yeshivos agree with this but they are not listened to just like with many other things. Same for girls’ seminary. None of these should jstbe automatic requirements that this is the only way but rather on a case by case basis by someone truly competent who can evaluate if the young adult truly will benefit significantly from this. This whole crazy system that a bunch of rich bal habatim hold us hostage to is utter insanity that is destroying the lives of these children just to make them rich. R Dovid Feinstein and R Shmuel Birnbaum and R A”C Levine can’t be asked in person but you can ask those who really knew them. You can ask (I or a chaver of mine hasdone this already) R Shmuel and R Eli Ber and R Malkiel and see what they say if this should be the automatic mehalech to kabolas hatorah for virtually every single boy (girls seminaries too). Or whether yeshivos feel pressured to send/ get guys in to places in E”Y because otherwise no one will learn by them. But no one ever listened to them about how to make weddings or cellphones or how to run the summer camps… so why would they listen to benogeia to this either?
May I suggest another possible reason for the Shidduch crisis? We live in a generation of perfectionism. You have to be a top Bochur or a top girl to get into the top Yeshiva. You have to look the right size and wear the right style and have the right career and drive the right car and have the right family to get the right Shidduch. The reason why the isn’t such a Shidduch crisis in E”Y or by the Chassidim is because they are willing to “settle” right away, while it may take years for older women or Bochurim to “settle on the perfect Shidduch”. When we take our heads out of the clouds and don’t expect perfectionism from ourselves or others, many doors will be open and many more young shidduchim will happen.
While what you write may be true and valuable points it will still not solve an issue of having a shortage of boys do the age gap.
I wish everyone would stop for now with all their agendas as important and as correct as they may be because focusing on other issues makes it sound like you are negating the the huge problem that is being discussed. Additionally, once the playing field is leveled, the overwhelming majority boys will not have the luxury of selling themselves to the highest bidder and automatically they will need to lower their demands and price tags
It’s part of the problem why there is an age gap ie. the reason why Bochurim and Seminary girls go to Eretz Yisroel for Yeshiva and Seminary. While some do it Lishma, I’m wondering if it’s an underlying pressure in order to get a better Shidduch… girls are taught in school to get good marks in order to get into a good seminary, for what? It’s all about getting a good Shidduch. From the moment a baby is born, parents start davening for a Shidduch. In the Alter Heim, shidduchim were made between families even before the children reached the Parshah. Now they only start after they build up a good resume and can get the best sechora. The age gap is part of the peer pressure. Hameivin Yavin.
Is anyone contemplating the effects of pushing a boy to marry earlier than he is really ready? Did anyone forget about the DIVORCE CRISIS that is only getting worse? As we know from the Torah, boys take longer to mature than girls, as they get bar mitzvah a year leter. Even back in the day, girls would marry at 12 but the boys were usually older. Why are we closing the gap? To fix G-d’s problem? Who knows why there is a crisis, its chevlei mashiach and Hashem should help with all our tragedies, but I surely wouldn’t want my daughter marrying a man who is not ready to take care of her and build a family the way he would have been give him another year or 2. It’s ramifications for life. And by the way, this is not me talking, the RY ZTL R Yehuda Jacobs held this way – He was one who dealt with people day and night and dealt with the problems of what marriages looked like a few years in… We just see too many singles and want to fix fix fix. It’s not so simple
Rav Jacobs zt”l told you that low age is the cause for divorce?! What did he suggest? I guess 24 is too young. Should everyone wait till they’re 35, 40?? What’s the right age. I don’t believe he said that at all. Divorce is definitely a big issue and there are numerous causes but I don’t believe that age is one of them and if you listen to the clip with Rav Elya Ber you will see that you are wrong.
the Torah also says a boy should get married at 17, look in the Tur in Even Haezer and this is how they do it in Harav Chaim Kanievsky’s family.
THE REAL SOLUTION
It takes a simple mathematical model to see that the issue will be solved MUCH faster by making a rule that GIRLS MUST WAIT 2 YEARS AFTER SEMINARY TO DATE!!!! The rule to have boys date 2 years younger does not fix the issue the right way. You are left with many older girls that will never get married according to this model.
By having the GIRLS WAIT you will have all the available boys taken by the older girls and the counts come out much better this way.
This is really great that TLS is doing something. I’m glad people are acknowledging just how intolerable the crisis has become. I wish there would be initiatives to help women like myself who are already older singles, but I guess it’s impossible to create new men.
there are plenty men out there just that this “long wait then short wait” system has taken the sparkle out of the mitzvah as it should be approached- lishmah, but hopefully people will wake up and approach this mitzvah the same way they do at other mitzvos for example esrogim where you look and you ask and then you go for it because if you don’t then you will not have the mitzvah, so too here you look and ask and then you get married, and when younger people will adopt this approach then older singles will also find the courage and feel comfortable with a marriage which is just that, a marriage, especially when it is done leshem shomayim.
There are single men out there searching for someone like you. Maybe reconsider someone you have dated in the past but turned down or look for something a little out of your box. You’ll be surprised what treasure is waiting for you. Don’t give up! Many older single girls are still getting engaged. There is hope.
I listened to my Roshei Yeshiva as well as my sons’ Roshei Yeshiva. They are the ones who deal with the bochrim dating, with the divorce / sholom bayis crises and with the chinuch of our future gedolim. They all anchorage the good, serious boys to hold off dating until 23 or 24. I have therefore held-off my daughters’ shidduchim as well and BH even though they waited until 20 or 21 to start dating they all did great shidduchim. My girls sacrifice for their husband’s shteiging and one of those sacrifices is to gladly wait for them to grow in Torah learning before their marriage. For Baale Battim who don’t appreciate the value of the boys’ Torah learning Kol Hakovod follow the business men who think they know better.
What a self centered person! Shame on you. Your daughters all got married! Wow! Don’t you realize that although it worked for you it is not working for thousands of others?? I’m glad you think that you are being holy and listening to daas torah while not caring one bit about thousands of others.
What would you say if it didn’t work for you and those very daughters would still be single? It sounds like you would be singing an entirely different tune.
I also have news for you, your daas torah is botul in 10,000 to the daas of gedolai EY and Rav Elya Ber.
If you would be mechanech your daughters that their (future) husbands learning and growing in Torah is the most important thing in their lives, than you too wont be part of this crisis. Waiting 2-3 years longer to get married would be considered a privilege not a crisis. If the future gedolim’s learning is not more important than your wives dream of being a bubby before she turns 40 than we’ll have a crisis. Otherwise let the bochrim learn and let the girls spend a year or two (or three) preparing to support them financially, emotionally and spiritually.
Not sure which planet you are living on but the discussion here is not about girls having to wait a year, two or three because thats obviously not the biggest deal, rather it’s about making sure that there are enough boys for the girls to be able to get married. Period.
Look where this has taken us! We need to create new men. Once we are at it we should solve climate change and fix the weather. Yes hashem can do anything (even create new men). And no it’s not our job to fix hashems business. And no we don’t control who marries who stop this silliness and border line api…
Of course we don’t control who marries who, money and ego do that. We lost control over those taavos years ago.
Big maamin here! Wow. Nice to call Rav Elyashiv and all the gedolai eretz yisroel and Rav Elya Ber border line apikorus. I think that you and your like are borderline שוטים who is saying complete טפשות.
I applaud TLS for what they are doing. I hope that I am proven wrong, but I believe we will now begin to hear cynical shmuesin about how “baalei batim” are putting their nose where it doesn’t belong……..
Maybe girls should also start shidduchim later instead of just boys starting earlier. Do you really think that in the near future all boys will marry much younger!? Be real. So maybe also work on it from the other side.
@shlomo The Pele Yoetz says openly not like you. He says most people need to do serious hishtadlus to find a shidduch. And Chazal say to be עוסק in pru urvu. עוסק means that it doesn’t come easy.
I think the adds would help the cause better if they are directly for the idea of boys marrying earlier (and girls later), rather than adds for schools that try to help the cause.
Also I think that although it’s fine to advertise an opinion, I think incentives should be reserved for children. Adults, and especially mosdos that are all run by responsible tzadikim and talmidei chahamim should be allowed to make their own decisions. Generally the only time incentives are proper for adults is when they agree with you but they are addicted to something and they agree that they are addicted and they want incentives to help overcome the addiction. But putting monetary pressure on people to do how you believe is making a cult. Everyone is supposed to have their own bechira.
Yes you should do histadlus for your own shodduch or someone else. But to say that you will fix the “shiduch crisis” and change the who will marry who and not being enough boys I think is bit over the top. Sounds more like climate change than hishtadlus
“I think” who are you to think and argue with Rav Aron Leib, Rav Elyashiv and ybl”c Rav Elya Ber?!
And to all those screaming the gedoilim signed a letter. Take a closer look the actual written letter that was signed says nothing of shidduch crisis and not enough boys. It quotes a rambam stating that it’s a mitzvah to get married at 17 due to piryah and kedusha
Actually I would advise you to take a closer look at the entire letter and especially the last line signed by Rav Elyashiv, Rav Aron Leib and Rav Shmuel Auerbach zt”l. Amazing how blinded you and those like you are.
It’s beyond me what causes people to be so cruel and to fight against people who are trying to save the future of our people. What is driving this rishus?!
But why then is there no tefillin crisis or esrog crisis? Because we try to do it right, and have siyata dishmaya. Shidduchim are supposed to be done as early as possible with the intention of serving Hashem, and hopefully with this correction according to Da’as Torah there will come along with it brachos and yeshuos. Until now shidduchim have been delayed due to a just cause which is no longer applicable, and there is no point nor justification in continuing that status quo, just like we don’t send to co-ed elementary schools or drink chalav stam anymore.
By avoiding the reality, ignoring the Da’as Torah, and essentially declaring that as long as all will be well for myself and mine that is just fine for me- even if it were so, we will be failing this challenge. Plain and simple.
Yes I read the last line which says to do whatever we can for bnos yisroel this is a total distortion. There are three parts to this letter. The first of which is the printed part which is not signed. Then there is a letter from r chaim about the rambam and the mitzvah of getting married early. Then there is an unrelated one liner telling us to do whatever we could for bnos yisroel. Nothing about age gap in the 2 signed letters this was put together to be intentionally misleading and misinformation. So to all those screaming the gedolai yisroel said. No they did not say. And by pretending that they did it is you who are being mevazeh them and belittling daas torah
Ah. So what did they mean when they said that you should do whatever you can for Bnos yisroel?? Do you perhaps have any clue what this was about??
If you would listen to the video with Mr. Barnett and Rav Elya Ber you would hear that they went to get her with Rav Malkiel to the gedolim to ask them what to do and this letter was the response.
Got that?
Rav Elya Ber in the video didn’t say anything about the age gap either?
You have no rachmonus on Hashem’s children and a total lack of concern for the future of am yisroel. Maybe work on not being self centered and you’ll things differently.
To solve a problem you must go to the true source of the problem. Getting marries younger might fix some of it but not all of it.
The source of the issue is our way of thinking. Schools, parents, and peer pressure teach the girls to not see anything past full-time learning boys almost as if a part time learning boy is not religious. But just as you have 2 types of boys, full-time learning and part-time learning, could it be the same applies to girls but they are embarrassed to even go there. Are there any part-time learning boys having a hard time with shidduchim. I remember the Lakewood Scoop put out an article of a part-time learning boy saying he had a hard time and why he was not accepted. I remember some of the hurtful comments that people put out there as if his shita is not accepted in Lakewood. This will solve the problem in its entirety.
All you girls out there whatever age you are don’t be embarrassed to find responsible G-d fearing part time learning boys. Many of them are way more solid than some so called full time learning slackers. This is your life. Better to have a little busha before you get married than a full busha life of marriage because you were too superficial in your searching. If you were taught wrong, change your way of thinking and start looking for a boy with yiras shamayim and midos tovos. If you find one and he happens to learn part time instead of full time, grab him and don’t let go. Hashem known there is a problem and it starts with each of you. Accept all Hashem’s children and Hashem will accept you so you don’t suffer anymore.
I’m fairly sure the crisis is worse for those who are looking for working boys. I know many girls and women who are frum, wonderful people with solid hashkafos and great careers. The kind of men they need are incredibly difficult to find – very frum but also with a career. This kind of guy shouldn’t be an anomaly. Not every girl is cut out for a learning boy, and that doesn’t mean she’s inferior. There’s a mismatch between the kinds of boys and girls our culture is creating.
So you agree that the gedoilem don’t believe in fixing the age gap? That’s great. I also agree that everyone should do whatever they can to help girls get married. By thinking of ideas and anything else that is in our power to do including davening. I have yet to hear a rabbi say that it’s our job to close the “age gap” or fix climate change by closing the hole in the ozone layer. Lots of hatzlacha to all
Your name Amaratzis fits you very well
You have yet to hear?! You must have a hearing issue!
Listen to this and maybe just maybe you will hear
https://mytat.me/v169104
Ever see pet dogs on our streets? Ever sit to eat at an establishment or event and be served by a waitress? Ever smell the smoke of weeds?
We all are not anymore beholden to those norms of the pre-Pesach pizza truck days.
Adjustments must be made accordingly, and fixing the marriage issue is detrimental. The old shidduch system does not provide a shelter for our youth with what goes on in our own streets, playgrounds and malls. If you are unsure ask a Rav.
There always was and always will be more boys than girls. That’s how Hashem made the world. Women give birth to more girls than boys. Especially when they are older. The mefarshim say that that’s why it was such a nes that Sara Imeinu had a boy at her age. Women are not obligated in pru urvu. In a way it’s good that for one of the hardest mitzvos for men, at least there’s more than one option of who to do it with. Real iguna is only when they are halachically not allowed to remarry. Maybe since they have already tasted the pleasure of marriage. And because they have no ‘pas besalo’. There is absolutely no hope for someone as long as they are an aguna.
Also, before the cherem of Rabeinu Gershom of not having more than one wife, there were no number problems.
The cherem was only for a certain amount of years which have passed already. Now it’s just a minhag haolam. So instead of just trying to change the minhag haolam of what age to get married, maybe we should [also] change this other minhag. Maybe. I think everyone should be open minded and give all ideas some thought. This idea has more potential for sefardim who never had the cherem. And most girls change their minhagim when they get married. So maybe they can marry sefardim. The government doesn’t mind. They just only give one marriage license per family. But you don’t need a license to live together. I honestly don’t see this happening, but you never know.
in the Biur Hagr”a Even Haezer Siman 165 seif katan 11 it is clear that it is not just a minhag but rather an issur.
I sincerely hope you’re joking. You realize being the “second wife” is incredibly painful for women, right? I truly don’t know of any single women who would rather be a second wife than be single. Please consider that your suggestion is both bizarre and offensive.
More girls than boys. In the first sentence it got mixed up.
Many people understood the letter of the Gedolei Torah as saying that there is something or several things inherently wrong with our shidduch system, it’s givens and it’s takes. So many suggested different changes, which are a chizuk in kedusha, learning, sholom bayis, etc. Many examples were brought from Chasidim, Eretz Yisroel, places where they have placed emphasis on this and have seen a positive outcome. One commenter seemed to have misunderstood the point and felt that going AGAINST RABBONIM is the solution, particluarly Rabbenu Gershom Maor Hagolah zt”l who is our undisputed leader, and whose directive has been sacrosanct and is the essential definition of who and what we are as families and communities. To say to get married early if to follow the Shulchan Aruch and our tradition, but to suggest to contravene Rabbenu Gershom, that is against our Halacha. Certainly in Heaven they want adherence to Halacha.
Do the yeshivas need advertising money on tls?
Also are there any local rabinim involved or is this daas tls?
Beis Yosef, Even HaEzer 1:9, quoting the Teshuvos HaRashba found in Shu”t MaHarik, Shoresh 101
Shu”t Beis Yosef, Dinei Ketuvos 14. Darchei Moshe, Even HaEzer 1Pischei Teshuva, Even HaEzer 1, Seif Katan 19. Shu”t Avnei Nezer, Even HaEzer 1:8:8
I know I might be wrong. But don’t lie and say I’m making stuff up.
I know being a second wife isn’t perfect. But this world is not a perfect place. There are more girls than boys. The one and only solution is what I wrote.
@chizuk you didn’t understand what I wrote. I’m not going against Rabeinu Gershom. I’m saying that instead of changing a minhag haolam that is based on the Gemara of pushing off marriage for Torah, maybe change a minhag haolam that is possibly based on a mistake and assumed that Rabeinu Gershom meant forever. I’m not saying to go against Rabbanim. I’m just putting the idea out there for everyone including Rabbanim to think about.
To say that minhag Ashkenaz is a mistake is going against all of our Rabbonim and it is funny that out of all the Rabbonim we had for a thousand years this was left for an anonymous internet comment poster to discover, Big joke. Then the idea is being “put out” for everyone “including Rabbbonim” is the next joke, there is no everyone “including Rabbonim”, this is a closed case, it has been learned by Rabbonim for a thousand years and is not an open discussion. Period.
To get married early, may and hopefully will make a whole lot of girls happier, parents happier and grandparents happier, and is more in line with the Shulchan Aruch. The alternate family lifestyle suggestion besides being irresponsible also diverts the attention of the conversation which was about making corrections in the existing system to totally destroying the system and the Halachic and social norms that we live by. A post which suggests that the halacha which has basically been our definition for centuries is based on a mistake, and that you who figured that out are actually embarrassed to publicize your real name, really does not belong in this forum or in any frum site. Go learn by a Rav, and until then, why not take up a harmless pursuit, something which suits you without hurting those girls and families who most are trying to help. Redd shidduchim, single to single, the our grandparents were doing for ages, so they will have true nachas from us.
You’re the one that didn’t post any kind of name.
Much of Klal Yisroel had a minhag not to eat in the Sukkah on Shmini Atzeres which many people changed since it’s probably a mistake.
But my main point is not that the minhag was a mistake. That was a chidush that I threw in at the end. My point is that it’s just a minhag. A minhag that came much later than the Gemara of pushing off marriage for Torah. You’re the one going against Rabbanim. Making believe there’s no such minhag to push off marriage for Torah.
See:
yam shel shlomo yevamos 6:41
shu”t chacham tzvi 124 towards the end