[Reader-submitted in response to the illegal immigrant charged in the fatal hit and run with the 12 year old boy] Why it makes a difference whether the person is a legal or illegal immigrant? I think there are some important differences. Foremost among these is that a legal citizen is more likely to be financially responsible. If you are living here as an illegal, chances are pretty good you are using some kind of false identification, have out-of-state registration and don’t have insurance. Likewise, trying to find personal assets is much more difficult in the case of such individuals. Together, this will make the driver, especially in hit-and-run cases, much harder to hold financially accountable, adding insult to the injuries they cause because they leave the victims and their families holding the bag.
There is also an element of lawlessness that goes along with being an illegal immigrant. Take the analogy of the SUV driver mentality. Studies have shown that drivers of such vehicles, believing they are immune from accidents because of the superior handling and power of their machines, drive much more recklessly on average than people with more conventional cars. Illegal aliens may also exhibit a certain carelessness knowing that, if they have an accident, they will not be held accountable and can just disappear either back to their homeland or into the woodwork of the illegal alien world.
I think the extra anger some of us feel about these incidents is that the illegal alien shouldn’t be here in the first place. Ergo, if he was law-abiding, he wouldn’t have been here to mow down that poor boy. Similarly, the sense that they might compound their lawlessness by driving recklessly while here as uninvited guests only pours salt on the wound. When the guy goes hit and run it is especially galling because it represents how they figure they can get away with it, in a way that Americans and legal immigrants can’t feel because they are living within the system and have legitimate, traceable identities, assets, insurance and a lot to lose.
Bottom line: Its bad enough that illegals are here, taking American jobs, filling hospitals and schoolrooms, using welfare, foodstamps, Section 8 and a host of other taxpayer paid resources, but then they have to also kill and maim us on our roads? It’s just all wrong and infuriatingly unjust.
Prayers for the family that their sorrow should be assuaged and that they should know no more grief.
I DON’T GET IT, SOMEONE PLEASE EXPLAIN WHY WE LET ALL THESE ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS LIVE AMONGST US??? WHY CAN’T WE SEND THEM HOME!? AND IF THEY DON’T WANT TO, WHY CAN’T THEY ALL GO TO JAIL?! ENOUGH IS ENOUGH! WHY ARE THEY USING ALL OUR HARD EARNED TAX MONEY FOR THEIR SCHOOLING OF THEIR KIDS AND OTHER BENEFITS?! THEY DON’T BELONG HERE! PERIOD! WHY DOES EVERYONE GO ABOUT THEIR DAY AS USUAL, WHEN ON A DAILY BASIS THEY CAUSE CRIME, AND GET INTO ACCIDENTS! POOR CHILD AND FAMILY. MY AND MY WHOLE FAMILY SEND CONDOLENCES, MAY YOU BE COFORTED SOMEHOW.
If they are illegal how would they qualify for foodstamps? Or welfare? I’m not being sarcastic, I don’t understand and wonder if it’s true.
Illegals may not be able to collect food stamps but when they have children in this country, those children are legal us citizens like any other legal citizen. They are able to get all those programs for their children. Alot of immigrants come here pregnant or quickly become pregnant and have children. They know they wont be deported if they have children that are us citizens. Its happened but its not very likely
IF you really want to be technical we were at one time all illegals , maybe even more than the Mexicans. The Mexicans have always been on this continent , even before America was discovered. It was the illegals that landed in America with their tall ships from europe and spain that eventually labeled the Mexicans illegals. It was the illegals that landed in America that build a fence ( called a border) to separate themselves from the impoverish and captive natives. On top of that we all know that Mexicans are used in this USA for cheap l labor. How can you have the **%$# to use aomeone for cheap labor and then criticize them and question their citizenship Oh we love to use labels like day laborers and illegals to endorse our racist views. for political manipulation don’t we?
The point is what makes a person be careless has nothing to do with where they came from. after all we have a lot of careless drivers in Lakewood, don’t we? A reckless driver doesn’t ask himself if he should be reckless because of his ethnicity, he ‘s just reckless
We created this separation. It’s nonsense and we need to look at issues in a more intelligent and common sense manner
stop the labels
#2 – the actual illegal doesn’t qualify for food stamps, his/her children do!! so we end up feeding, housing, schooling, clothing, and producing children that are brought over here by illegal parents. And because non of the parents have any form of documentation, we also cant prove the children were NOT born here. so we end up taking in “anchor babies” when in fact they were NOT born here, but the parents lie that they were.
further more, illegals come here and are not able to obtain NJ driver’s license. they go to lax states(pa/nc/sc/wa) get a license under a fake name, obtain temporary insurance, and then get to NJ and drive around. They dont follow laws, they are obviously protected by liberal organizations, they dont care about penalties, flee when needed, change names on a daily basis, dont pay fines, change residences regularly, dont pay taxes, commit crimes without repercussions since finger prints are not on file, continue the life style that has turn mexico into a 3rd world country, and dont care to assimilate.
how much more are we going to take? when are slum-lords going to wake up and stop accepting money-over-safety?
THE AVERAGE NJ CHILD COSTS $13,000 to educate from K-12. its no secret that illegals will have more than 4 kids. the child that was just run over was 1 of 6 children in the family. 6×13,000 = $78,000
THE AMOUNT ILLEGAL PARENTS PUT BACK INTO THE SYSTEM VIA TAXES = $0
Now take 20 families (6kids each) x $78,000 = $1,560,000
-we are loosing MILLIONS of OUR tax dollars to illegals every year.
I DONT EVEN WANT TO START THE TALK ON HOW ILLEGALS USING THE EMERGENCY ROOM UNDER FAKE NAMES TO WALK OUT NEVER TO PAY THE BILL- IS COSTING OUR HEALTH CARE TO RISE IN PRICE TO COVER THE COST IN LOST MONIES OWED.
how come immigration hasnot come to lkwd
#4 you do not sound too intelligent. Our forefathers came here with legal affidavits and had to be sponsored as they were. And then they worked hard to make a living. Also if these illegal immigrants would not be here then we wouldn’t need their cheap labor because we would be able to find jobs and support ourselves
If you want to know who to blame the Liberal Democrats! They are the ones that are giving away all our money. The social programs were set up to help the people that paid money into the system and when they ( the people that put the money in)needed help they were supposed to be able to take some out. But the Lib Democrats saw all this unused money and had to spend it, and spend it they did!!! All these programs are going broke!! And as far as these “Anchor Babies” are concerned they should be sent home with their parents, and when they turn 18 they can request to return to this country, and only if they have NO criminal record. Anytime someone complains about the “Anchor Babies” the Lib Democrats call them heartless racists, so people stop complaining for fear of the Racist label. Our Constitution has an amendment that created the “Anchor Babies” but it was for one purpose and one purpose only, it was for the Black slaves to become citizens. But over the years it has been twisted by the Lib Democrats to mean something it was never intended to be. THANK YOU LIB DEMOCRATS.
to #4 NONSENSE !
Excuse me if I’m wrong, but most people that came to this country many years ago were NOT illegal. They went through Ellis Island and got the proper paperwork to become LEGAL immigrants. These people we are talking about here are ILLEGAL PERIOD! They do not have papers, documentation or anything to claim them to be legal. They get away with all the things Mr. Conservative said and more, yet we LET them live in our midst. We offer them work and therefore they will stay. Hershkowitz for committeeman!
Mr. Conservative,
You are very much on mark this time. The only thing I can’t figure out is how you come to “millions” spent on illegals. We must be talking hundreds of billions!
Mr Conservative…its 13k per child, per YEAR, for their education!! You imply that k-12 is 13k total and that is incorrect!
please redo you rnumbers……and make sure you are sitting when you do it as you might fall to the floor!
yea i don’t get how they live here if they’re illegal. how do they survive during the day while standing on the side searching for work? every time i walk by sometimes i see them looking at me. sometimes i’d hear a whistle here and there and i’d just get the creeps.
i could understand if there are too many of them to deal with but something definitely needs to be done. i don’t know what but something. we need to feel safe in this town.
I did not want to start a chain of negative comments, but i’m happy to see other people feel the way I do. I am just fed up with all this liberal talk of how we need to accept everyone for who they are, for their nationality, and their religion. I don’t want to sound racist, but if the whites of our communitty cause the crime, or act out of law, then I would complain about them too. If the Jews in our community act out of line, then I would complain about them too (I sometimes do). People have to be held responsible for their actions! If its just one, or two of a specific nationality, then I would be wrong for stereotyping. But were not dealing with a minority of a group, were dealing with THE MAJORITY!! Call the ICE, Call Homeland security, I don’t care who else you call, but get the people who don’t belong in our midst out of here! Why do I, or any other person of this beautiful, yes, I said beautiful, town have to put up with all the garbage that goes on here! Enough is enough!
dont care if your legal or not
PAY TAXES LIKE EVERYONE ELSE OR GET OUT OF THE USA NOW !
Losing is spelled with one “o”
# 4: You have a good part of your history quite wrong and your arguments are quite flawed, too. Frankly, what you are saying is the rather tired silliness we’ve been hearing for a long time and it’s the kind of ideology that got us in the terrible mess we’re in in the first place.
About “illegals”. Yes, it’s a label, which you seem to think is a bad thing in itself. Labels are useful for distilling concepts into simple terms that can be used in discussion of the issues. Arguably, there are some labels used deliberately to distort ideas or to disparage. But a label used accurately is both useful and necessary, as in the case of “illegal aliens”.
Illegal aliens are exactly that. They are here illegally and they are aliens, meaning non-citizens. Ironically, it is your side of the debate that made up the most distorted alternative label “undocumented workers” or “undocumented immigrants” for the deliberate purpose of twisting the subject away from its true nature: people coming here illegally and exploiting all the social programs, education and medical care, which is literally destroying us financially, culturally, and, in the case of violent crime and reckless driving, physically.
As far as whether pilgrims and other early settlers on the North American continent being called illegals, the argument is silly and pointless. No one claimed ownership to any particular part of the continent with the exception of a few small city-states among the Incas and Aztecs. The land that became the USA was likewise mostly empty and unsettled when the early settlers arrived. Sure, there were American Indians, but they lived in a few scattered villages and many had a nomadic lifestyle, roaming the countryside in pursuit of hunting and other food opportunities. It’s not like there was a country in place with traditional political institutions, governing structures, defined borders, sovereignty or anything that would establish the vast lands as “belonging” to anyone. Consequently, no one could be deemed “illegal” until a sovereign entity was established and distinguished itself from other sovereign entities as a separate country.
These are simply facts of history. Your argument amounts to a never ending exercise in estimating the number of angels that can fit on the head of a pin. For example, we could engage in a never-ending quest to find out where the “indigenous” population came from and call them illegals. No one considers the American Indian tribes who were here in 1492 to have just materialized out of thin air. They migrated from someplace else, so I suppose they are illegals, too. Many countries around the world are now dominated by migrant cultures and powers that came from somewhere else. Should they all simply dissolve and their descendants leave? In the case of the USA, in order to have it your way, we would have to deport close to 300 million people and tear down all the cities, roads, factories, schools and hospitals they built to return the land to the original owners. You see how ridiculous this becomes?
Incidentally, the people who occupied the southwestern United States besides being small in number, could not possibly have been “Mexicans” as you claim, since Mexico did not yet exist.
I guess you did not read the original article which makes a very cogent case for the idea that reckless driving might be connected with illegal status: when you have a lot less responsibility for the consequences of your driving compared to citizens, it stands to reason that you might not drive as carefully. Is it scientific? No. Is it rational? Yes. Does it have anything to do with ethnicity as you suggest? Absolutely not. Nice try at playing the race card. This is not about race, this is about law and the fact that our country is under assault from many quarters, including the problem of illegal immigrants.
to # ten
that correct they came here to Ellis island by ship from over seas
that means they were not native to america.
Mexicans are native to America , they didn’t come over here by boat or plane , what don’t you understand?
it’s not nonsense it’s historical fact , go ahead and live in your fantasy world and keep telling yourself your the only native americans
that is the real nonsense!
Ancient Native American civilizations–including those of the Maya, Olmec, Zapotec, Mixtec, Toltec, and Aztec flourished here in the Americas for centuries.
of course Mexico did not exist, but mexican ancestors did. That is why they are native to America. That is why they should not be classified as illegals.
of course labels are bad. Anyone that suggest that there not is ignorant. It’s because of ethnic labels that we have bigots and racist groups in this country that organize and attack others based on their differences.
yes i did read the article on reckless driving and it’s connection with legal status:
that the most racist thing i ever heard. A reckless human being doesn’t ask himself or cares what he is ! he’s just reckless. To try to claim that all Mexicans are reckless drivers because of their legal status and then try to rationalize it is playing the race card.
no one ever suggested the deportation of 300 million people as you stated in your writings
by the way the Indians did have define borders and they were a sovereign nation. There is no assault on this country. Are you running for office or something. It sounds like it because you sound like a politician. distortion of facts! to scare someone to vote their way.
My final comment is that i don’t believe any human being should bare the label of illegal
it barbaric ,insulting and made to demoralize groups
it’s the ultimate race card!!!!!!!!!
#4, 18, 19: making sense of ethnic labels :
WOW, just WOW. I’ve never read a better example of the adage: “Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt”. Lincoln must have prophetically seen your posts and wrote it with you in mind.
You have utterly nothing to say and you think you will cow people with angry ranting, devoid of reason, facts or logic.
All the Aztec, Toltec, etc. cultures you cite did not occupy “the Americas” at all! They were natives of what is now known as Mexico and Central America and never had anything to do with the territory that became the United States.
The connections between illegal status and reckless driving has absolutely nothing to do with race. I never mentioned the race of the individuals. It would be true of illegal persons of any race, so why are you making it an issue of race?
Ladies and Gentlemen: I give you exhibit A in the case of how liberals and race-mongers make absolutely no sense and have to resort to nonsense, insults, rage and shouting since they really have no argument.
@21 – There isn’t really much to argue about, since your entire point is based on the idea that illegal immigrants are worse drivers.
Chaim Z says:
If you were addressing me, I have to disagree. It is very easy to see that I am arguing against the race baiting nonsense being put forward on this thread. The issue of the driving habits of illegal immigrants was merely one of several points made by the OP in arguing the larger issue of illegal immigration and why people get upset about it.