VIDEO: Are We Hurting Our Single Girls? | Rabbi Joey Haber
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Instead of crying about the Shidduch crisis, why don’t we solve it?
Her’s a simple solution, cost nothing, and will solve the crisis overnight.
If all girls coming back from seminary this year agree to not go out until they turn 23, this entire crisis would be over.
Instead of having entitled boys saying if I don’t get everthing on my very long list, I’ll just wait for the next crop of girls coming home.
Now 19 year old girls can say I will wait 3 years, there’s no rush, there are no new girls invading the market for 4 years!
Every girls “value” on the shidduch market, even 30+ years old will instantly go up.
The girls have the power to save themselves, they need to band together and make this difficult decision for their sake, and for the rest of Klal Yisroel.
(1 point not often brought up when discussing this topic is that even though we would love if boys learned lishma, not everyone is on that level yet.
The fact is that getting a good shidduch was for many years a very good motivation for a bochur to put in the effort to become someone that a girl would want to marry.
However, due to the girls jumping into the dating pool at 19, before the corresponding 19 year old boys, now if a bochur is wearing pants and a yarmulke, he can demand anything he wants. The motivation is lost, and even the girls that do get married, are marrying bochurim that have not reached the potential they otherwise would have.)
How about boys start at 20 instead of having girls waiting around for 4 years!!! Hashem I could cry!! When will the litvaks learn stop this backward thinking and start putting their heads on their shoulders.
That’s an excellent question!!
1: That will help the future girls, but you are writing off all the current older single girls, and I don’t think that’s right.
2: You are asking boys to give up a major advantage that they currently have, what’s their incentive to hurt their own shidduch prospects, my way it’s the girls controlling their destiny.
3: Our Yeshiva system puts 0 accountability on the bochurim today, therefore they are immature, and unready for the responsibility of marriage.
When zaidy was young, this worked because everyone in Yeshiva was fighting against their parents and the entire world who said “Go to college! Get a career!” People like that don’t need accountability, but today…
Yes, we should try to raise our children to be responsible at a younger age, but currently this is not the case, and forcing immature 20 year old bochurim to get married, can have unintended consequences. Vehamaivin yovin.
Berel,
All good questions but each have responses:
1- Great point, but not a reason to not implement Yocheved’s idea. Making the 20 year old’s wait till 23 does not help todays older singles eaither.
2- Boys are not block of people existing in a vacuum. they are part of families who have daughters as well. The parents and Rabbeim are the ones to push this. I don’t think the boys will refuse them because of their current advantages
3- Another great point but I see it as a problem that will rectify itself when dating at 20 becomes the norm. Why should we expect boys to be more mature if the marriage is in the far distant future.
The majority of the maturing process takes place after they get married. That’s when they begin to learn what it means to live in harmony with another person. As the old saying goes, men are from mars, women are from venus. Until they live together they have no idea what is involved. No pre-marriage classes comes close to real life. Also, if you raise the age for the girls, the idiot boys will just raise their age as well.
You are 100 percent right.
Boys are not ready at 20.
Some are, most aren’t.
A certain Rosh Yeshiva (not in lakewood) told me once that the majority of the couples that call him with problems are the ones that married young.
Duu hey. He is a Rebbi for younger boys. So they call him if they got married yong. The older boys call their Rebbi from BMG.
If the boys would know at 18 that they are approaching shidduchim in 2 years they would start maturing earlier… maybe we should wait until 40.. Most men are much more mature at 40 than they are at 24? They are not ready at 20 because shidduchim is still so far away for them so they have no reason to grow up.
As they get older, they become more selfish. As they get more ingrained in only thinkng about themselves. The issues with the younger ones, is usually, lack of understanding what they were taught in choson/kallah classes, or the teacher didn’t belong teaching.
Do you realize that Chazel explicitly prohibit withholding women from marrying.
That’s precisely why the girls need to decide this on their own! Excellent point, and Thank you for agreeing with me!
Also Chazal don’t have a problem with men marrying multiple women…
The girls have decided. They want to start a life as an adult, in adult relationship. The boys have decided, thet aren’t men, but babies. And this decision of being babies is prefered by so many rabanim. My question for these rabanim is, if these boys are such babies they should probably be patur from learning, Tefilin, Krias shema and tefilla as well. Such immature boys, though from age perspective and in reality a bunch of drunks.
Where exactly do Chazal say that?
Do you really think that would work? can you really tell a public sacrifice yourself for the public good? Its not realistic.
Your misconception is unfortunately very common.
They are not just saving the older single girls, They are saving themselves!
Right now a girl comes home from sem, she must chase mediocre boys, and still has trouble getting a yes.
If the above plan is implemented, when the girls turn 23, the boys will be chasing them!
No they wouldn’t. The boys would be waiting until 30 and then start wanting to only go out with the 23 year old.
Why should the girls wait? Just because you boys ahve decided you’re too chashuv todate before 25? It also won’t help, because the boys don’t want to date girls the same age as them. They only want to date 18-19 year olds. Your arguement about becoming something is also stupid. If the Bachurim don’t want to be something, which so many aren’t at any age anyway, why are they even bothering to go to yeshiva at all. get a job and accomplish something.
There are new girls each year either way. A new batch turns 23 a year later.
Wow! Rabbi Haber hit it on the nail! I am the mother of two girls that are waiting and they were really excited to finally feel understood. All the things here said I can apply to myself. I can say I feel a smugness even from family members that had their daughters married quickly and they can say hurtful comments to me like, “it’s so cute to watch the young couples”. Or “my girls davenned so well so they got their zivug” Rabbi Haber gave me the strength to know that they are not better than me and they are just not appreciating Hashems miracles and are taking credit. I can further thank Hashem for giving me the humbleness acquired thru this challenge of “waiting” and will forever be more sensitive towards single girls .
We are hurting them by not doing anything to change the system & solve the age gap. Every year, another few hundred girls are left behind & life continues as if nothing happened. That communal apathy is the most painful part about this.
There is literally nothing crazier then this unproven ridiculous conspiracy that age has anything to do with Hashem’s ability to get every person married. It’s laughable that people really believe age is a factor. Unproven. Not real. Silly.
Like Rabbi Haber says. It’s all in Hashems hands and therefore, (since of course you commented without even listening to the speech) your words are hurtful, inappropriate and unnecessary.
Hashem instructed us to marry before 20, after 20 hashem says Tipach Atzmosov. (I know you will tell me that the bouchrim are torasam umnasum, buy if they only get serious about learning at 21 that doesn’t count) If you don’t listen to what chazal say, you end up in a crises as we all can see.
They are also mostly done with growing by 23.
“Literally nothing crazier”?
Seems logical to me and a lot of leading Rabbonim who put their signatures to it.
What is illogical is avoiding action on something that clearly is a problem by saying “Hashem will fix it”. Do we apply this “logic” to any other issues in the jewish world
There’s nothing more hurtful than blaming Hashem for humanity’s bad choices. Let’s close down PCS, Tomchei Shabbos, Bikur Cholim, RCCS, Bonei Olom, & every other communal institution because after all, Hashem is in charge, he’ll make it all right without us doing anything.
Every other Frum community that has boys & girls marrying at the same age has no surplus of girls remaining single.
Stop blaming Hashem for our choice to leave the system as it is. Thank Hashem for giving us the Daas to recognize an imbalance & daven to him that the powers to be figure out a way to correct it.
Try asking yourself a simple question.
How many girls between the ages of 19-21 are married?
If the answer is 1000 or 9000, that’s irrelevant.
Now ask yourself where are their corresponding 19-21 year old bochurim?
Oh! They are all still single!!
That should help you understand the crisis.
Now what do you suggest we do?
When we, as a community, rectify and cherish the unique Mitzvah born from the sanctity of marriage- Hashem will hopefully provide the very union we are pushing away.
We don’t want to confront this uncomfortable reality. The numbers do not match up. We need true Mesiras Nefesh for there to be intervention from above. All this brainstorming is going nowhere, because the מזווג זווגים is saying no.
Which Mitzvah are you referring to? Tamaras Hamishpacha or Kisui Harosh?
All 613 Torah mitzvos. All Rabanic mitzvos. All being done completely and correctly. Not looking for loopholes day and night.
can you please summarize what he said
He said we should be very sensitive with single girls and also boys because the fact that some are married and some are single has nothing to do with the characteristics of the person. It is completely, entirely up to Hashem.
Bear in mind that I think there IS an element of hishtadlut, mindful, reasonable and diligent personal effort.
WOW WOW WOW
What a powerful speech!
thank you @tls for posting
This topic touches my heart so much. There are so many angels to this crises. So many pain points. I would just like to put two thoughts out there. The jewish media being obsessed with this topic doesn’t help. That is exactly what makes a “girl in shidduchim” into a “nebach older girl”. The second casualty of the media discussing this way to much, is what Rabbi Haber is addressing. The feeling that if you are not professionally trained to speak to your class mate that is not yet married. Most young woman feel like they don’t know how to text their single friends good morning anymore, the more you write about how insensitive married woman are to their single friends, the more you are encouraging them to just ignore them. On the topic of the shidduch crisis, the problem is obvious the the issue is the imbalance of the number of boys VS girls due to the age gap. (Its 1+1=2) We know why the boys are waiting so long to start dating, yet we keep trusting the people that made the problem to solve it. We keep asking the Bais Medrash Rosh Yeshivah for ideas. Obviously they will not agree to let the boys date because that will put them out of business. Even more troubling is the Yeshivas that were built around the idea that every Boy must get into Brisk before he can get married, so that he will marry “rich girl”.
Thank you Rabbi Haber!! This was an incredible speech. I strongly advise everyone to really listen to it and internalize, not just post your comments about what caused this “crisis” and how to solve it. Hashem is the one who created it and Hashem is the one who will resolve it iyH. All that singles are asking for is some support and recognition, not more bashing about how this is somehow their fault.
Stop “blaming” hashem. The gemora-Chazal tell us that Hashem waits for boys to get married till twenty. ONce they turn 20 Hashem says Tipach Atzmosov- let his bones rot. There is a heter given to those that are Torasan Umnasan. When chazal tell us this is how it should be done and you rely on a heter not knowing if it applies to you. and you find yourself in a crisis to say Hashem did it to you is not the way a ben torah thinks.
We have to be sensitive – đź’Ż
but I agree with others, if you’re going to vindicate everyone for every comment being insensitive every glance being insensitive- that will just promote alienation for fear of uttering wrong expression
no one has a right to be haughty or hold themselves better bc they were zocheh to a shidduch- I think that’s obvious!
on a related topic, I resent the boys and their mothers who have become increasingly smug and haughty
hashem is mizaveg zivugim- don’t you dare think you get x because you Or your son are so high and mighty, it’s wrong
So, we ignore the Mishna and neglect learning Chumash, learning Mishnayos go straight to Gemara, and ignore Chazal 20 L’Chuppah…makes no sense that we’re now suffering…I suppose that modern “Daas Torah” is smarter than the Mishna…I’ll just go back into the freezer and shteig now, thanks!
On the reverse side, I as a married friend experienced my single friends relationship in a surprising way. I tried all the years to keep up with my since friends, many of them who have since gotten married BH. While they were single sown of them did not respond when I reached out to call them
and say hello, shmooz etc. My calls were left unanswered. I spent many hours speaking as references for them and then silence when I tried to reach out to them. Additionally one specific friend called me up and instead of thanking me for being her reference was upset that I was giving the wrong impression about the type of boy she wanted when that is what she had relayed to me. And at this point many of my once single friends have dropped their relationship with me. One friend neglected to tell
me about her first son’s Bris. And subsequent babies I found out from the Voices Simcha section. I felt for all the years I put in so much effort to keep up the relationship once they got married they completely forgot about me. Didn’t leave me with the best feeling to say rh least.
Sadly, sometimes we don’t know each other as well as we thinkk we do. Not any persons fault. Also, as time passes, people change their perspective. It’s hard to know. Another possibility, and likely, is that they turned on you because they needed to vent and blame. Not your fault. I have had such happen as well.
As a married friend who has given up hours to speak on the phone as references for single friends I implore all singe girls not to “forget “ your friends once you BE”H find your zivug. It is so hurtful to put in hours to maintain a relationship with single friends only to find out after they got married that they had their first child a year later as written in the Simcha Section of the Voice. And when a married friend leaves multiple messages on your house line and or cellphone please call them back. They are trying to maintain the friendship you cherish why would you not reciprocate?