Seen in Shuls around Lakewood.
Submitted: Back with Another One
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Halacha emphasizes early marriage. Obligations can’t be pushed aside. Remember, Torah study has its place. Nineteen is seen as the limit.
Youth is the time to build a home.
In Europe, yidden would sacrifice their lives, burned at the stake, rather than violate the Torah.
Why is it that nowadays people are willing to violate the Torah just so that they can get into Brisk?
For some, learning in Brisk is about a form of אהבת התורה, but for the vast majority it’s just another מעשה יצר הרע, aka גאוה.
Can anyone name any gedolim alive today who got married at 19 or earlier?
I cant think of any.
These posters are bring awareness of how our standards have drifted far from the true Torah lifestyle. Our Gedolim are also victims of this very system. I was ready and willing to get married at 20 and learning in a “top” yeshiva at the time. I remember telling my “rebbe” that I’m starting to feel the need for a companion in life and would very much like to go into shidduchim. His response- it’s not an option.
People get so triggered by hearing the truth that it then propels them to attack it.
People like to “non-judgmental” and “positive”, but the reality is suffering in rampant and moshiach hasn’t arrived- we are off base; something has to change.
I was ready and willing to get married at age 19, but the “system” didn’t allow for it. Give the boys the option and tell them the Halacha.
LOL U DIDNT READ THE BOTTOM OF THE LETTER
GEDOLIM THAT DID GET MARRIED LATER IS BECAUSE THE MASMIDIM THEY WERE ,AND TODAYS NISYONOS IS ALOT WORSE, WALKING DOWN A STREET IN LKWD TODAY IS WORSE THEN THE WOMEN AT TH THEATHER IN THE 1900S
bein shmone esrei lachupah
Rav Chaim Kanievsky zt”l got all his sons married before 20.
Can you think of any Gedolim alive today who say that halacha is optional?
That’s a lie
Show me the lie
This is the truth. The lie is what’s going on today, The boys are getting married at 25
I doubt there’s a lie. The paper quotes and sources a statement of the Chazon Ish, so he probably did write that. More like a case of misguided priorities from people posting this and only using his name when they pressure people.
Look
in the mirror
SO TRUE KEEP THE POSTERS COMING ITS BETTER THEN THE LETTERS COMPLAINING ABOUT THE SELF MADE SHIDDUCH CRISIS
To whomever is putting up these signs:
Are you willing to take responsibility if someone takes your advice but shouldn’t? So much can go wrong if the time isn’t right. Can you simultaneously act as a marriage counselor, a free loan society, an affordable housing landlord, and a bunch of other stuff?
This is not for everyone. Very easy to preach from a soapbox, now take responsibility.
What the person putting up these signs believes is irrelevant.
What is relevant is what the Chazon Ish believed.
If the halacha demands that we get married young, we don’t ignore this halacha even though it goes against our American culture.
We force babies to undergo a bris milah at eight days even though the time “isn’t right.” We keep Pesach even though it might necessitate a “marriage counselor.” We don’t work on shabbos, even though it can lead to poverty and the need for a “free loan society.”
The Chazon Ish doesn’t need to take responsibility for the Torah’s mitzvahs.
What stupidity, if the baby isn’t ready e.g yellow we do not give him a bris on the 8th day.
We don’t give a yellow baby a bris because the Shulchan Aruch says that we don’t give him a bris.
What does that have to do with throwing out the Shulchan Aruch because American culture believes that delaying marriage is the key to happiness?
Except it isn’t the Chazon Ish telling this to a specific individual. It’s a blanket statement in his name. Will you take responsibility then? What if a rav who knows an individual in question says there’s reason to delay marriage? Is that person now doing an aveirah?
Not to mention that I’ve generally only heard the Chazon Ish quoted in such circumstances. The Chazon Ish was a tremendous Talmid Chacham. When people only care about what he said if they can use it to manufacture a holier-than-thou attitude, there’s reason to suspect motives are more about condescending and controlling attitudes than caring for Halacha.
To anyone who puts up this sign or supports it: YOU are not the Chazon Ish. It’s very easy to be a keyboard warrior (or better yet, pashkevil warrior). When you reach 10% of his greatness and depth in knowledge AND individualize it, we’ll have what to talk about. Until then, these people are misguided control freaks.
The Shulchan Aruch is clear that “UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES” may one delay marriage (unless he fulfills the three conditions).
So, no, there are NO CIRCUMSTANCES which would allow your Rav to tell you to delay your marriage.
In that same Chazon Ish he states clearly that in our days no one after the age of 19 could say he has pure thoughts. If the Yeshivas would release the boys earlier, they could keep this Halacha, and end the shidduch crisis.
For the sake of Talmud Torah there is no heter, but I wonder what the Chazon Ish would say regarding the immaturity of today’s children. It’s possible that something crucial for the stability of a new home may not be a heter, rather a chiyuv.
I can’t put words into the Gedolims’ mouths, but all this says is that Talmud Torah is not a heter. It is a tochacha for those who would otherwise be ready to get married but push off for another year in Brisk etc.
its a good thing we don’t pasken from signs in shul…
But we do pasken from the Shulchan Aruch.
Go open up a Shulchan Aruch and read the conditions required for pushing off marriage.
It’s a good thing nobody bothers to know what they are talking about.
In this very sif of the Shulchan Aruch is a statement that was never normative halacha.
Normative halacha was that learning indefinitely pushes of marriage. This has been practiced throughout the past fifteen centuries. The Shulchan Aruch is in accordance with this.
The three conditions are more applicable in our times than earlier centuries. Please use some reading comprehension along with the quoted sources.
Whatever shidduch crisis there may be, it is not because boys are learning to long. If it were, learning boys that date younger would get married quickly. And teenage working boys would have more girls to date than working guys in their twenties.
If you don’t know all this already, please downvote.
Dear Mr. Normative,
The three conditions are the following:
a) learning with hasmada,
b) unable to learn due to lack of food,
c) not have hirhurei aveira.
What percentage of Talmidim check off these three boxes? And why do you think that these conditions are MORE COMMON nowadays?
As per the sign, the Chazon Ish held that even these conditions only permit one to delay marriage until 20, but not after 20. The Chofetz Chaim allowed it until 24, assuming one fulfills the three conditions, but that the percentage of bochurim who fulfill these conditions were infinitesimal.
I ask again: What percentage of bochurim fulfill these three conditions, as far as you can tell?
Zero percent.
The Chazon Ish is explaining one of the 3 conditions that you need in order to push off marriage to 20. One of them being impure thoughts. So the Chazon Ish says that once you hit 19 you don’t have pure thoughts.
its so sad we have boys in yeshiva suffering and want to get married but the “system” won’t allow them.
We do as it is a direct quote
Get a LOR and ask him all your sheilos.
Why is a clear-cut din the Shulchan Aruch all of a sudden a “sheila.”
Should someone who is sure that the Borough Park eruv isn’t valid ask his LOR if he should be using the Borough Park eruv?
Because when Borough Park rabbanim permitted the eruv, signs – signed by all the Roshei Yeshiva and Litvish Gedolim – said that you shouldn’t carry in the eruv, notwithstanding what a LOR said.
The guys who are printing and selling all those beautiful mezuzos at high prices are smacking their lips at the prospect of selling all those gittin to the now increasing number of guys who get married and divorced at an ever younger age
Huh……?!
Are there any other halachos that you refuse to keep because you suspect that it will increase the divorce rate?
Do you stop going to shul for minyanim, or stop keeping shabbos, because you suspect that it might increase the divorce rate?
I assume not.
So why is this halacha any different?
The chassidim get married at age 18 and I don’t know that there is a higher divorce rate there if anything it’s lower
19? They are just kids at that age. Why push into marriage so young?! Give them time! It’s a lot of responsibility at such a young age.
They are kids because you think them as kids if you get them married in 19 they will mature up before then.
The guy putting up these letters should be investigated and if found to not follow even one part of one rabbinic dictate to its fullest, he should be tarred and feathered and ridden out of town on a rail.
The person putting up the signs is irrelevant. So is the company that he uses to print the signs (such as Staples, FedEx, BP Print Group).
What is relevant is the person who is quoted in the signs.
The Chazon Ish was a kadosh v’tahor, the greatest in his generation, and even previous generations.
Rav Elchonon Wasserman, the great pre-war Rosh Yeshiva, said “I DON’T REACH HIS ANKLES.”
There was never a generation or time that never had a gedol hador leading it and hashem did that for a reason so that his flock should always have a sheperd. our job is to follow our gedolim because our gedolim in our generation are like moshe rabaynu in his and even if we dont understand, we will still follow the godel in our generation because that is the way hashem sends his messages to us and if this is the way they shtelled avek the system then this is obviously the way its supposed to be. your allowed to have questions and you can ask them those questions but please leave all the fundemential decisions to our gedolim who are a lot closer to the ratzon hashem then we are and we are michuyav to be mivatel our dass to them, even if we dont understand just like we walked into the ocean, following dass torah even though we didnt understand . so before you do anything drastic that could have side effects, forward your questions to our gedolim and let them take it from their and what ever they decide, we will follow because they have a level of siyatte dishmaya that none of us have. im not saying this person didnt have daas torah, if he did, then fine but the yesod is still true.
You are tremendously right in theory, but your application is questionable. The Gedolim in E”Y have becried this very point as well as other issues that the American Yeshiva system seemed to disregard. Your comment is based on a premise that there are two tracks of Gedolim, E”Y and American and it is our duty to comply with the system of the American yeshiva even though it was long been denounced by nearly all Gedolai Yisroel!
we have gedolim for a reason and such a fundemential decision should be left for them,our sheperds
We are sheep without a shepherd.
The Litvish world has always prided itself in following the halacha.
For this reason, when Lubavitch Gedolim told their followers that they should not sleep in the Succah, the Litvish world said, “No gadol can tell you to go against halacha.” (Lubavitch responded by saying that they only tell people who have the hetter of mitztaher to refrain from sleeping in the Succa, so they aren’t going against halacha. See Likutei Sichos, v. 29).
For you, as a Litvak, to then turn around and say, “My Gadol is a balabos on Hashem’s mitzvahs” isn’t just kefirah, it is inconsistent with your attack on Chabad.
Besides, I hope that you would agree that the Chazon Ish is a Gadol of the highest caliber.
So why are you ignoring him, and replacing him with someone who is on a lower caliber?
Someone asked Rav Shach: “Who is bigger, the Chazon Ish or the Brisker Rav”? Rav Shach said, “It’s obvious that the Chazon Ish is bigger. The only question we had was between Rav Chaim Brisker and the Chazon Ish.”
[This is meant solely to praise the greatness of the Chazon Ish. Obviously, the Brisker Rav was a tremendous Gadol who of course followed every letter in the Shulchan Aruch. As Rav Aharon Kotler said regarding the Brisker Rav, “His Daas Torah is greater than my Daas Torah.”]