Dear TLS,
In the extensive discussion about the shidduch crisis, I feel like we are missing the most obvious solution.
We are focusing on the roshei yeshiva, eretz Yisroel, the freezer…but these solutions seem so hard. When you have a system in place, its really difficult to make changes even if they are great ideas in theory. How can you cut out a year of school and suddenly 100s of rebbeim are without jobs, or how will you to tell the boys to skip eretz Yisroel when its become the norm? how will you get the boys to mature a year or two earlier? Big changes are so hard to implement.
But one idea seems so obvious and simple and I’m not seeing so much discussion about it: Why can’t the boys come to primary at age 4 turning 5 like they did 30 yrs ago, instead of at age 6?
Boys used to be bar mitzva in 8th grade. Now its 7th grade and increasingly even in 6th grade. Changing the primary deadline seems like the most obvious and painless solution. Why can’t we involve the elementary school principals instead? Let them change the deadline. We learned the aleph bais back then a year and a half earlier followed by the same number of grades thereafter at the same level of education, so we know the boys can do it. They will have the same number of years ahead of them to “mature” and “be ready” to get married, as they have now.
At the same time, perhaps start the girls a year later.
What are the problems with this idea? of course nothing is painless and everything is a juggle once kids start playgroup at a certain age in expectation of when they will begin school but it seems so much more do-able than so many other ideas being thrown around. the other issue is that it won’t help alleviate the situation until these primary kids go into shidduchim, so we still need to do whatever else we can do now.
The question is, am i missing something?
And WHO can see if this is something that can be implemented? can the scoop contact various school and principles to see their thoughts?
Thank you for advocating on behalf of klal yisroel’s girls!
TLS welcomes your letters by submitting them to letters@thelakewoodscoop.com
100%. Children are meant to be taught and molded earlier. No good reason to start elementary so late
This idea will help doday’s kindergarten children in 18 years, it won’t help the girls & boys already in the system that started early. We need to save them from facing what today’s girl’s & their patrent’s are dealing with. And yes, we are supposed to do our hishtadlus when it comes to shidduchim as clearly stated in Chazal & noted by the Peleh Yoetz Erech “Zivvug”. Rav Elyoshiv also disagreed with those who say that we don’t need to make hishtadlus for shidduchim.
Theoretically but if the boys want to keep staying in Israel for as long as they can they will just stay there longer and nothing will have come of it. Also even if this situation worked perfectly you would t see results for 20 years. There is only one solution Al pi derech hateva and that is the boys marrying early.
False. There are 2 derech hateva solutions. 1: Abolish the cherem d’Rabeinu Gershom. 2: Put the girls in a freezer. If girls don’t go out till they turn 23, the numbers will return to balance. ( Your genius idea of boys starting earlier will be useful for the future, but what about the thousands of girls who currently can’t get a “yes”? Do you just write them off?)
We cannot be mevatel the cheirem according to halacha & it’s illegal regardless. We cannot put anyone in a freeze except BMG entrants who have nowhere else to go.
You don’t have to get legally married. And I’m not putting anyone in a freezer, I’m suggesting the girls do it voluntarily. Put yourself in a girls situation, would you rather go out at 19, get 2 yesses a year and have to chase mediocre boys, unless you’re rich and famous. Or would you prefer to wait 4 years and then the boys will be lining up outside your door? Obviously all the girls would have to agree to this, but it’s the only practical way to balance the mismatched numbers of boys and girls
This suggestion is too logical for the alarmists.
You can even accomplish this by moving the primary deadline by six months for the boys, and six months the other direction for the girls. This would effectively cut a year of gap.
Discriminatory.
What you are missing is that unfortunately, our school system has become increasingly rigid and developmentally inappropriate (another crisis for another time). Most boys who are 4 are quite simply not prepared for the increased demands of the curriculum as compared to 30 years ago. If we are expecting boys to read fluently at the end of Primary (as compared to girls who aren’t expected to do so until the end of 1st grade), we are better off waiting until they are 5.5/6 and developmentally capable of meeting this milestone.
This idea is doable if our chadarim are willing to revamp their curricula.
Somehow, I’m not so sure it will happen…
You actually sound like a primary kid, that’s probably where you still are, if you happened to somehow have moved onto first, you should go back a year and stay there permanently.
Seriously, why do you need to speak like that?
He actually has a point. Some boys are just not ready to start school so early.
So if you don’t like the writer’s idea, perhaps they can start Mesivta in 8th grade or BM in 12th. This will accomplish the same goal without making start earlier.
I happen to like the idea of starting HS one year earlier. By the time the boys enter 8th grade they really are ready to move on. (& Mesivtas will change their curriculum accordingly)
Dumbest letter I’ve ever seen. It’s not even worth pinpointing one thing cause it seems like your living under a rock. Stop wasting your time writing letters and start primary again, I don’t care how old you are!!!!
My apologies to A, my comment was meant for you
please write with kavod and derch eretz for another yid, esp in public.
For the same price you can rename First grade as second, presto problem solved! The issue at hand is that there is a certain amount of knowledge which is meant to be taught…..most don’t feel that they can skip on certain stages for example the upper shiurim and neither are the talmidim ready at a younger age
What about the morah jobs?
I think being mature cheirim drabeinu gershon is easiest
sefardim may marry 2 ashkenaziyos al pi halacha lechatchila but it’s not as practical as to get chassidishe boys to marry litvishe girls which may help alot
I think a chassidishe boy will more willingly marry a litvishe girl than the other way around.
theres a morah shortage anyway
Beautiful idea and it should be implemented but since it will take twenty years to see results this is not the solution that we need so as difficult as the other ideas that you mnetioned are, it is far more difficult for rachmonim bnei rachmonim to not do something to help our girls TODAY!
THERE IS NO SHIDDUCH CRISES
Hashem already setup your sons and everyone else’s son/daughter zivug 40 days before they were even born.
Forget about the fact that now they are holding at around 20 or so years later since they were born. Hashem has their zivug waiting for them and can send it to your son/daughter immediately but is just waiting for each person involved in shidduchim to do their RUCHNIUS hishtadlus of Bitachon and Emunah(faith and trust in Hashem) together with Tefillos/Prayers.
Mrs. Seminary girl,/Mr. Learning/working boy Are YOU doing your RUCHNIUS hishtadlus? Not just your gashmius hishtadlus of dating and speaking to shadchanim etc….?
Start turning directly to Hashem for help in all your needs, especially shidduchim that they say is a bigger miracle than the splitting of the Yam suf.
Why are we not putting our faith and trust directly in our loving father, king of kings, ruler of the world Hashem? Especially when we all know the truth that Hashem has everything down to every person’s breath and penny of income already decreed since Rosh Hashanah for the entire upcoming year? Of course we need to do our Hishtadlus but the ultimate secret for success in our needs is to turn Directly to the source Hashem for help in anything.
You have forgotten what I believe Reb Chaim Zatzal said, to many people say no to their bashert. generally it’s because people don’t actually know or care what they should be looking for. They care more about getting a status shidduch than the person hashem chose for them
There’s a mitzva to marry of your children & Mitzvos are up to us to do our best hishtadlus to make it happen. Please stop distorting Yiddishkeit by using Maamarei Chazal to exempt yourself from doing your mitzva.
Each individual must do as you say, of course. But the klal? Should we put our heads in the sand, and say “Shalom yihyeh li”? If you had 5 daughters in shidduchim, and none of them got a yes in over a year, I wonder what sort of tune you’d be singing
Nice idea but it is highly insensitive to write off many thousands of girls for the next twenty years because it is “too difficult” for us “klal yisroel” to do something for them.
Everyone who used to be covid experts turned election experts, turned Russian Ukrainian international policy experts, turned submarine experts have now become actuaries specializing in shiduchim. I think the obvious solution is not always so obvious, but it’s to daven. You can’t control certain things like the weather and shiduchim. 40 days before a person is created, Hashem says who they will marry. So, if you think you can outsmart hashem, maybe shiduchim is not your biggest problem.
How about all those that know better than Hashem and turn their bashert, because they want to fin in the box. Even when Hashem says that’s not for them.
Great… so we’re shutting down Hatzallah, bikur cholim, RCCS, bonei olam and basically all other organizations that help people and just giving out tehillims instead. Cool.
This whole “crisis” is ridiculous! Hashem is the one in charge and no amount of movements or shadchanim will help. Talk the the one and only Real Shaddchin!
And you know better than the gedolei yisroel that said the derech in America isn’t toradik.
Why do Chazal tell us that if you can’t find a shidduch for youe daughter, free your slave (Eved Cannani) & marry her to him!
Why not just daven & turn to Hashem? Because you need to make your best hishtadlus to do your mitzva!
Please stop distorting Judaism with you nonsense.
Efsher L’kayeim Shneihem
the issue is not across the board and not at the primary level rather the issue is a compendium of situations and attitudes where the subliminal message given to the boys is that you are IT you are great we make the girls wait for you we push them down instead of up for you now you pick and choose, ask and demand, and then it is all up to you to decide
so yes the freezer may not be full of kosher but even more so is the attitude which is trickling from the top of the freezer down to the younger generation is one of self centrism and almost disdain for girls and their families
and above all instead of looking at this great avodah and this special mitzvah as an opportunity unto itself this has become a tool for other gains which have nothing to do with bringing out the good in either the girl or the boy or their home
the place and time to start the fix in not in primary but in their primacy
at that age when the boy is by human instinct gearing up for it and so is the girl let them go naturally, don’t block him or her, and then blame others and other factors for this man made problem
Half the crisis are the parents. Sorry to say but most parents do not know what their children are up to .
And the children don’t know what they want or need in a spouse. They need to sit with a rav for guidance not base this decision on what the world expects. Children won’t be honest with their parents, because they want to fit in the dumb box.
How about BMG not allowing their bochurim to date girls that until the Pesach after the girls come home from seminary? That would allow everyone to be more grounded when dating and help the ‘age gap’ too.
No one should be delaying the starting of shidduchim for a single day. The earlier they start the better.
All these ideas seem nice but extremely difficult to implement.
The obvious statistic that doesn’t seem to be getting much attention aside from the age gap, – There are way more girls looking for “learning guys’ than there are ‘learning guys’.
The quote on quote shidduch crisis is way more rampant in Lakewood than in other Jewish cities. Coincidence? I say No!
Why do you keep saying aside from the age gap? The age gap is the only problem so anything else you are trying to fix is not relevant. When the age gap is resolved no other problems will occur. Please review the laws of supply and demand.
Yes of course unless there is no age Gap .but that goes against everything you’ve been taught in the coffee room.
Yes of course. Unless there is no age Gap. Or that there is an age Gap but that’s not the problem. But that goes against everything you’ve been taught in the coffee room.
Not really accurate. The real issue is that the boys aren’t all learning boys, and the girls aren’t all actually looking for learning. They are all told this is the only way to be a yid. Thus they are all looking for something other than their bashert.
How many girls do you think are getting dates right away and how many are waiting a year or two or three by default, since no one is redting them shidduchim????????
Might sound good on paper but will actually do more harm than good. Forcing boys to learn everything a year earlier (think kriah, mishnayos, gemara) will create way more boys who will fall behind and fall out of the learning system. As it is we’re bleeding learning boys which is one of the major contributing factors if the shiduch crisis.
We’d probably do better pushing everything back… and start mishnayos and gemarah a few years later and that will improve the education system and keep more boys in learning and reduce the good boy to good girl ratio.
just go into shidduchim earlier and that will spare you and yours the headache and heartache that is all you can do and that is all that can be done by you
people do not like to discuss the money issue !!!
many girls from poorer families get less shidduchim suggested because they can not offer “the going requests”
But one can feel better knowing that there are not necessarily more older singles from poorer families
it is just that they get less dates
But maybe the money issue is something to be addressed especially if the boys are starting younger the “demands” will remain and possibly increase
This commenter, and A above, are the only ones who replied with the obvious problem: Kids are NOT ready a year earlier. Many people aren’t aware of the maturity needed in many areas of development to be ready for school, including ability to follow directions, pay attention, sit nicely, comprehend language, differentiate between sounds, socialize, negotiate with friends, etc. Preschool years are so important, and can’t be taken away!
If this is the girl’s crisis, and the girls and their parents do believe that they face a real crisis, then the girls should be the first ones to make a move to fix it, That move would be to postpone dating until age 21, in order to close 50 percent of the age gap.
Only then can you come to the boys and ask them to make serious and real-life changes like cutting out Israel and starting to date at age 21 before their really ready.
By the fact that in the last 20 years, the girls and their families have not mobilized on their end, it means that they are not convinced that they have a real crisis.
So if its not the girl’s problem then why is this the boys problem?
The guys in yeshiva are hesitant to date girls that are older. This is a fact. She’s 21, not married, must have issues.
It’s the unknown Shulchan Aruch crisis which is causing the known shidduch crisis. It is assur al pe Din shulchan Aruch for a boy to get married after 20. We should stop finding silly answers. The answer is clear. Boy can’t stay for third year Bais medresh. And stop the nonsense freezer.
When you know shas at 18 you can talk.
It boils down to this: age vs. stage. Any playgroup morah will rightfully describe how the kids need more time to develop their skills. And if you take a group of all different ages you will see how the younger ones are generally lacking basic mature skills. The opposing team doesn’t believe in this idea because they have no experience in this field and they just want to group all kids together. The facts are that all Lakewood playgroups have specific ages, strictly. I think if schools had playgroups (which some have started) they would be able to begin the learning process at a younger stage while at the same time allowing all rabbeim to stick to their chashuve jobs. This way even if the kids aren’t necessarily up to par, the school would be aware of the situation as they enter primary.
In January 2006 I wrote a letter that was printed in the Yated in which I suggested an idea extremely similar to this one. Had we implemented it then, the age gap would now be a year shorter. It’s not a complete solution but I still believe it can be a step in the right direction.
all i see from this letter is wjining and more whining. its too hard.. Have I got news for you.. life Is hard. too bad. You obviously don’t know anything about chinuch. kids are so pressured now xays and you want to start the pressure earlier? please. leave it to the Gedolim, not the whiners
Let the bubbies & zeidies solve the shidduch crisis.
It amazes me at the language that is used in so many posts. A bit more humility would be nice and much more helpful. I believe that if we used a softer tone, ideas would be discussed and hashed out, we would accomplish so much more.
So many opinions are absolute,
– Age gap and nothing else
– No solution only Davening
– Burn down the system
– Girls are better and all want learning guys
– Money is everything, and poor people should suffer
Etc. etc etc.
Yes most believe that the age gap is a major factor, but it’s not the only factor and other changes may be helpful.
Yes if we teach are children better midos it will help.
All ideas will help!!!
So if we stop criticizing others ideas and possibly take out a point or two of what they are saying, we can use all ideas to come up with a comprehensive multi faceted approach.
Which may fix or improve the situation.
One last thought.
I find it interesting to watch how families with girls and boys.
That when the boy is on the market they become almost nasty to the Shadchan and make girls wait for answers. Etc. etc.
But when the daughter is on the market, they get frustrated by the midos of the boys side.
Orthodox Jews in the NYC area (which includes Lakewood) seem to be generally extremely generous philanthropists, particularly for causes that involve their communities. What about providing a financial incentive for young men to marry young women their age? Likely, the money would be much appreciated by a young couple to the extent that it would serve as an effective incentive.
Would be a great idea if they would fund full time shadchanim paid by the hour and by the shiddich they make
The big shadchanim work 24/7/365, and aren’t out there complaining about their own finances. They’re even out there collecting funds for those that don’t have to make a chasuna or pay a nadin. Learn the facts of these hard working people. Learn how they are almost never sitting at a dinner table, because they are busy trying to make another shidduch. And another. And another.
Simple solution: To help with all the singles TODAY, I think all boys and girls need to date someone within two years of their age. This will help the older girls find someone. I hate when a 25 year old guy marries a 19 year old (heard it many times) Unfair to all the girls out there who aren’t expected to marry a guy 6 years younger than them.
Can one tell people who to marry? I think not. You could encourage and incentivize, but to dictate, particularly something as personal as marriage, would be a disservice to all.
Can boys be asked date in the beginning girls within a year of their age. This is much easier than changing the system. Boys would listen to their rosh yeshivos if asked to try that for their first year of dating.
The Shidduch Crisis seems akin to the Climate Change Crisis, both are ignoring that Hashem is in charge, and the solution to both is to radically change our way of lives to the detriment of us an our children, guaranteed in the latter and likely in the former.
Right. That’s not what gedolim like reb chaim said. But you know better.
Really, whatvexactly did Reb Chaim say?
In the 1800’s the Russian Czar caused many boys in their 30’s to never be able to marry, they were “chapped” and called the Cantonists, and they were never given a fair chance because nobody would think of taking them for their daughters and so they lived out their lives alone. Many claim that they know which Rebbe or Tzadik tore the Heavens to cancel this gezeirah back then, we don’t know, but we for sure know that all of the tzaddikim in the 1800’s would cry and pray that at least the next generation of boys should be spared.
Today there are many girls at the same age of 30 who were also never given a fair chance, they were not “chapped” just the opposite they were excluded for this reason or another, and today there simply are not enough boys for them. Unfortunately the situation is being perpetuated to the next generation, where the prospects for a 15 yr old girl of today are not much better then for those who are already at 30. The way the system works the numbers are just not there. Because the numbers are not parallel.
Finally people are screaming to pull the emergency brake.
And every bit helps. To date at 22 instead of 23 is a help. To come back from Eretz Yisroel even one zman earlier helps. To avoid the sub-zero helps.
Hopefully the trend can be reversed, and at least on the communal level this scorn can be eradicated from us. May the Ribbono Shel Olam help each and every individual boy and girl. And may we see the final Yeshua and Nechama soon in Yerushalayim.