To whom this may concern: I must say I was quite shocked when I recently showed up at a local all-men’s event and found that women were serving the meal.
Are there not enough male waiters around? Or perhaps they were not given instructions by their bosses? Perhaps it was a mistake?
Either way, I urge all organizations (and Baalei Simcha) making events to keep to a higher standard and a level of increased sensitivity to Tznius.
(TLS welcomes your letters by submitting them to letters@thelakewoodscoop.com)
Maybe stop worring about tznius so much and worry about derech Eretz more.
Why do people think they need to be more frum than previous generations. Women have always been waiters. It’s a recent trend to request male waiters. It’s not a lack of tznius if a female serves you. Maybe start complaining about female nurses / mail carriers / secretaries…
do jewish orgs. headed by men not have female secretataries?
the female waiters are usually dressed decently.
Dayan Weiss recently spoke at the BMG Yarchei Kallah. Someone mentioned a very similar situation to him during a Q&A and this was his response: “we are living in a world full of nisyonos. If someone does something that you may consider a lack of tznius then conquer your nisayon and deal with it. It is no ones obligation to ensure that you are nisayon-free”. He further explained if someone needs a permissible service (ie a waiter service) it is not his responsibility to ensure that you shouldn’t feel any which way about it. If you have a problem – it is solely yours and not anyone else.
What’s the lack of tznius with the opposite gender serving someone?
This was a politely worded request that seems quite reasonable – why do we have to have female waiters serving men, if there are plenty of male waiters around – I’m rather surprised at the volatile response here and it is not comparable to nurses/public transportation bus drivers/toll collectors – the op is requesting that local simchas/caterers be accomodating in this area – not so terrible.
This article is embarrassing to me as a frum jew… This is craziness to a new level. If you have nisyonos you should learn to conquer them and not suppress the entire world around you.
The women have male waiters. Is that considered a problem?
Have we stooped to such a low level in yiddishkeit that someone pointing out a tznius issue and suggestion for improvement is so bullied. Why is his point any less valid than yours? This is so typical of what we learned as kids about being so open minded that your brains fall out. As a frum jew I am embarrassed by the comments and replies.
No one is forcing you to do anything, and this is not about nisyonos or tznius dress. Dayan Weiss is not advocating that we remove an entire section of shulchen aruch.
To # 2: “It’s not a lack of tznius if a female serves you.” really? A meforash Gmara in Kidushin (70a) and Shulchan Aruch (Even Haezer 21, 5) it’s assur to use a female to serve you. Look in Aruch Hashulchan there..The issur obviously is on the one making the event and not the guests.
To # 5: “it is no ones obligation to ensure that you’re nisayon free” what happened to the issur of ” lifne iver lo siten michshol”?? If you make a party or a seuda and hire female waitresses purposely and it bothers your guests who are on higher standards and machshil them, why shouldn’t you be oiver on lifne iver?
Don’t focus on the waitress serving you so much and just enjoy the simcha your attending. These female waiters shouldn’t even be a nisayon to you if you just focus on your mission of making the family happy or helping the org.
most sensible answer yet. validates the question and gives sound advice.. well done
I’m truly horrified and shocked by the level of vitriol and condemnation thrown at this writer. He is 100% correct in the point that he’s making and 100% correct in pointing it out.. I believe he’s is speaking not to his personal nisyoinas but to the tzibbur as a whole. I don’t want c”v to be mekatreg on anyone but at a time where there is so much tzoros in our community..tzoros that perhaps some of us that are involved know firsthand. It begs the question; Why in the world would we not look to better ourselves especially…yes 1,2 & 8…especially in the area of tznius. I can tell you firsthand that many people are very disturbed when they are being served at a simcha by female waiters and feel it’s wrong especially where it could do easily be avoided…
A lot to respond to the responders of this article…sometimes peoples comments reveal how removed they are from certain concepts…suffice to say I strongly disagree to many of the comments here…to put it mildly
Point it out to the caterer the Bal Simcha and the event organizers and it will come to a stop. Yes there is no reason Women should be serving Men especially in the Ihr Hatorah of Lakewood there should not be women in Pants Prancing around the mens section.
Most people have a problem with someone pointing out an issue especially tzniyus and attacked the one that pointed out usually have a chip on their shoulder and it bothers them when someone’s pointing out the obvious. Deep down they know the truth
To No. 2,4,7,9 and 13.. I am bothered by the lack of basic knowledge of the English language (on all sides). A female waiter would be called a ‘waitress’.
I agree! Sorry….
@Tznius
As you may be aware the ‘sugya Dkallah’ was Lifne Iver….and that was the Dayan’s point. The issur is to purposely cause someone to stumble. If someone hires waiters he/she just wants the service and is in no way trying to be machshil someone. If they send someone which you may deem inappropriate that is on you and not the Baal Simcha. If people choose to be noheg minhag chassidus it should be applauded but don’t turn it on others who live within Halacha.
Why don’t u look at it from a legal perspective if u don’t hire females u will face a lawsuit so some party’s will have to have female waiters and the ppl that have issues will have to work on thier nisyanos or leave the party
as a sheital macher who took a tni not to sell long sheitals I can only hope that these frum men who admirably are on a high level have wives that are “tznius” I do not learn gemmara but I did learned that tznius starts in the home and is the responsibility of the husband.I am sure their wives wear short sheitals.
I am honestly more appalled by how every mosad in Lakewood has female secretaries. Why do I have to endure this michshul when picking up my children? Please consider hiring men-there are many who could use the parnassah
Please consider hiring rebbeim for nurseries and day care. Why do I have to endure the michshul of walking through hallways where the younger grade morahs are out and about? I dread PTA every year!
Please reconsider cashiers, stock employees around town and babysitting as well-don’t bochurim need money too? why do women have the monopoly on this?
Please write the township to replace all public female employees as well…lets see how that goes.
I’m all for tzniyus dress and avoiding problematic places. But this can really lead to borderline OCD after a while.