I wanted to share my thoughts with TLS readers, I’m not a writer so there will be grammar/spelling mistakes, I’m sure there will be comments pro/against but if you think about it, it really makes sense. I have teenagers, like many other people here in town, looking around I see unfortunately many families who are dealing with kids that’s are called “off the D” or on the way….as everyone realizes its becoming a lot more common and it just seems like even “normal” family’s are not immune. We heard it all and I’m not getting into the reason of why it happens and who’s to blame, just giving a different thought on the matter.
Are WE making it too easy for them? We are very accepting, welcoming, loving (WHICH IS GOOD, don’t get me wrong and that’s the advice you will get from all mechanchim today) we’re walking on eggshells, when we’re dealing with the boys, we don’t want to upset them so they don’t become worse or chos veshalom leave home….. they walk around town with the azus that I can do everything and no one is gonna stop me, no need to daven, dress or act like a mench.
There are programs for them (again which is GREAT need and the people who are running them are doing tremendous work!!!) but why don’t we make them uncomfortable? Why don’t we make them responsible for THEIR actions? Why are we giving them a free pass? Aren’t we sending a wrong message to all the kids out there? Take a “good kid” who is in elementary years looking around and thinking, hey, these guys are cool, they are having a great time! Why should I sit and learn /be board if I can have a great time on the street? Go explain to him that it’s not what it seems, that these boys are not really happy.
I just had this conversation with a guy that was there, older now and he said that as a teenager it IS fun, for the first few years, but by him he was told to leave (we love you, but you can’t stay home the way you are) and he respected it, (as a matter of fact it was good for him to see that the world out there can be very cruel and no one loves him more than his parents).
The point is, it’s fun, we have programs, trip, no school, no responsibility, hangout, smoke, why should the hundred of kids growing up not follow? And for all those B’h hundreds of boys who wake up every morning snow or heat and make the bus to Minyon, do we show them the same love, understanding, appreciation? Or do we just take it for granted? These boys are putting in 13-15 hours a day!!! Do WE work/learn so many hours? They come home exhausted and are expected to do well, (which is a whole deferent topic as to why they can ease up the schedule of the mesivtas and I’m not go getting into it now) the street seems so much easier.
The bottom line is we have to love, encourage and respect the “good” boys who are holding up the fort and hope and pray that we instill in them a love for learning and yiddishkeit so they would want to do the right with happiness, not because they have to.
Some VERY valid points there.
If only it was as simple as you make it sound. There is no correct answer. There are pros and cons to each way. The only thing we can do is daven, daven , and daven that we have Siyata Dishmaya that whatever way works for us should be the better way.
DO YOU HAVE A CHILD OFF THE D THAT YOU THINK YOU CAN GIVE YOUR OPINIONS?
I don’t think there is any contradiction in loving all of our children equally.
A parent can instill in their children an understanding that what is good or necessary for one child does not mean that it is for the whole family. You are making a faulty assumption that we should not give attention, devotion and appreciation to our “typical” kids. This is wrong. Every child should be loved by their parents even if there is sometimes a differing of opinion on how to face life.
What defines someone being off the “D”? Just because something is your “D”, does not always mean it works for your child. I know you want your child to be exactly like you, but thats not always the case. The more you push, the more they push away. A little leniency goes a long way. If you child doesnt turn out the way you expect, he isnt a failure. Take it easy
if you’re reading this, please read the whole thing before you write anything. I’m writing as a former “off the D” id. i never actually went off the derech. I kept shabbos and kashrus all my life, always dressed tznius and never ever hung out with boys or went to the movies, but if you asked my school I was the least frum kid in the school because I was a non conformist and rarely followed school rules. I guess you could say i was very chutzpadig and also in alot of pain. the points I want to make here are the following:
1- i could understand that a parent would panic if their child stared showing signs of distress, and the possibility of going off the derech would scare them into taking every kind of preventive measure, and that’s the way it should be. a parent is a parent. but i think wut needs to be understood, is that if a child is in pain, the pain needs to be dealt with, not their yiddishkeit. Happy children don’t go off the derech.
2- yiddishkeit is not a burden that we got from our parents and are trying to ram it down the throats of our children. throughout the rough periods in my life, when I was bitter and angry I would try to figure out ways to get back at my parents, my school etc. and every time the idea of going off the derech struck, i would think about it for a minute and then veto it. I really wanted to hold on tight to that. not to give anyone nachas, but because I really really loved being frum (thank you Mommy and Totty!)
3- one very important thing I learned is that although every parent wants to have a relationship with their child, thats not the end goal. First and foremost, hashem gave you these kids to instill within them a love for hashem for torah and for yiddishkeit. many ppl forget this and work on instilling a love for mom and dad in the kids. It may be easier that way but east isnt neccesarily good.
As a guy in the Lakewood community, who once was one of these teenage boys, i think that you are completely right. That if we would put some pressure and make them feel uncomfortable, it would have a positive effect on them.
And for all those B’h hundreds of boys who wake up every morning snow or heat and make the bus to Minyon, do we show them the same love, understanding, appreciation? Or do we just take it for granted? These boys are putting in 13-15 hours a day!!
This is a major issue of it’s own that deserves a topic in itself.The enormous amount of Mesirus Nefesh that Bochrim have for Yiddiskiet is not only ignored to the contrary Bochrim seem to be from the few groups that may be spoken against and vilified.Remembering how I felt as a Bocher I tell my teenage brother in laws “If I wasn’t embarrassed I would stand up for you”And I mean it.Even though one of (gasp)smokes…
I agree a hundred percent. Thing is, you obviously neve experienced a REBEL child. With them you cant win, if your tough with them they will start a war against you, your family and yidishkeit. with these bad eggs sadly the only hope is to show them love, even if you know they are just living it up and taking advantage of your love.
To #9
Your description of our Yiddish children as “bad eggs” is deeply disturbing. Life as a Yid is all about a journey. A person is born and then spends a life finding himself and his path to Hashem. A bad egg does not change and must be discarded. Is that what you are suggesting we do? These are young adults who are just seeking to find themselves and their way in the world. If they fit our ideals or not, we don’t and cannot summarily dismiss them out of hand.
Shame on you.
How do you make such a statement! Think before you post.
No they are not ” young adults bla bla bla”, they are whats called, in popular slang, ‘party animals’. A very befitting description IMO.
Instead of being responsible normal yidden they choose to party all night, all ‘weekend’ and all day.
Sadly in the really bad cases of rebells, our only hope is showing them love. Most times literally, out of sheer fear of what they will do if they are reprehended.
my brother is off the d for so many years and my parents were always good to him and never threw him out…..
i really think a big cause are the boys that “cheper” the weaker boys whether it is in learning, socially etc.. are not punished. (there are even some rebbeim like this). It is the “cheperred” boys that go off the d. if they are accepted, they wil be hsappy and if they are not happy, off the d it is.
Do not create a new label. There is no such thing as being “off the D.”
There is Shomer Torah, or there is not.
If one does not behave according to halacha, he is NOT a Shomer Torah.
If someone behaves according to halacha, he is a Shomer Torah.
A Shomer Torah is accorded all benefits. One who is not Shomer Torah- because he refuses- for whatever reason, is not accorded these benefits.
Thats all ther is to it. Do the best job you can parenting.
You said:
“….but why don’t we make them uncomfortable? Why don’t we make them responsible for THEIR actions? Why are we giving them a free pass? Aren’t we sending a wrong message to all the kids out there?”
My response: If not for all the warmth that Rabbi Abadi, my mom, Eli E., & all the guys @ The Minyan, give me, ….put it this way – I would not even be writing on this “religious” site.
You:wrote:
“Take a “good kid” who is in elementary years looking around and thinking, hey, these guys are cool, they are having a great time! Why should I sit and learn /be board if I can have a great time on the street? Go explain to him that it’s not what it seems, that these boys are not really happy.”
My Response:
Am I totally worthlessr?? I am also your kid!
You wrote:
“Go explain to him that it’s not what it seems, that these boys are not really happy.”
My Response:
Do people look at the Chai Lifeline pictures and say, “Hey, that’s not fair – Why do they get 2 have so much fun?”
If u can “explain it” to them how unhappy I am…. Do it!
Bec. I wouldnt be able to explain my feelings.
You wrote:
“The bottom line is we have to love, encourage and respect the “good” boys who are holding up the fort and hope and pray that we instill in them a love for learning and yiddishkeit so they would want to do the right with happiness, not because they have to.”
My response:
I cant agree more!
PS By-the-way GOOD LUCK!! I wish it would be that easy for me.
I do, however, feel that when I talk to G-d he DOES listen. Maybe, just maybe, my dad didnt talk to G-d enough!
Interesting and well written letter…….But in my humble opinion you got it all wrong!
• Do you think a boy would forgo the security, comfort, stability and all that family and community offer without already feeling an enormous amount of pain and anguish?
• Furthermore, most boys that have strayed have already been dealt to some extent the heavy hand.
• Finally, do you really think that these boys and girls don’t already on their own feel uncomfortable and ostracized from the community at large. The few tzadkim that give them warmth and acceptance deserved to be supported and encouraged.
Maybe somewhere along the way, the adults should be responsible for their actions too! Monkey see, monkey do!
wow is this a loaded topic.
these boys/girls have no idea what pain they caues their parents. obviouly they are hurting as well but never stop to think they are hurting those that love them most.
this is a HUGE issue that is only getting worse.
may hashem have rachmunis on us parents that are getting physicaly sick over this issue.
please do not moderate this out. years ago the Mashgiach (R’ Solomon) Shlita said in a public speech “we should stop calling them drop outs and start calling them push outs.” These teens are in pain. Are you a licensed psycologist or a gadol hador that ypu wrote this article? Did you seek advice from a Torah authority? Have you spoken to a rosh yeshiva (no not one with only 20 students)? Do you have any professional experience in dealing with THESE kids? or are you another self-proclaimed expert floating your Theories? Ever worked in Chinuch? I have. Your premise is mistaken. Battering them more than they have been will only lead to a disaster chas vi shalom. When in doubt ASK DAAS TORAH not your own gut. We need to build these young people up, not tear them down.
dear writer, i think your intentions may be right but i think you are wrong on a few levels first of all are you speaking from experience of having a child whos “off the d” or from watching all the kids at risk seemingly have fun? bec i believe a lot of people who say lets get tough or how can they parade around smoking hanging out with girls have issues with taavos themselves and it irks them that they are controlling themselves to a point and these kids have “freedom”. well you can almost say youre somewhat jealous of the boy as opposed to genuinely caring about the welfare of that boys or other peoples yidishkiet. bec if you were so worried your or other kids will be influenced,then clearly you are not doing a good job educating them between wrong and right and if its such a thin line bet them being frum and going off then your whole idea of chinuch is bad from the foundation.if you want i can discuss more specific ideas how to try to fix the foundation but not on a public forum
to continue my point, dont sit here judging what other kids are doing! they got into that situation bec of a system that has a lot of flaws at the foundation,there is no one and no point of pointing fingers the blame spreads equally from parent to rebbi to child.but dont think you making these kids unwanted or being “tough” with them will help bec most of them left the D bec of attitudes like yours!
Rabii Mechanech and I am off the “D”
I just want to point out one thing and that is that what ever your suggesting IS NOT WORKING!!! so lets stop with all this feel good stuff and try going back to the way our parents were mechanech us! it seems that it worked a lot better.
I am A working Ben Torah and my boss always tells me the fallowing “you can have all the greatest ideas in the world and the could make a lot of sense but if they don’t bring the desired results they are worthless and you have to change your strategy”
Its the same in regard to this. We have been hearing from lots of “professional Mechanchim” about giving love and not ostracize these at risk teens but ITS NOT WORKING!! CHANGE YOUR STRATEGY!
As a parent of such a situation I will tell you that there is NO general rule to be used across the board, every family situaion is different. Not always is the problem at home, not always is it the school and bad friends, every individual case is different and has to be handled as such. And ofcourse a ROV should be consulted not a web site or a blogger or a head of a OFF the D moisad and so called Maven in these things
You are right, the ones who take them in are doing an amazing job! and are saving their lifes. But for those many boys and girls who are sitting on the fringe, and would have not ended up their if they got the love before, not after, they look up to these kids who are “cool” and that everyone is dealing with them with “gloves” why should they not want to be the same?. You mention that a boy would not …”forgo the security, comfort, stability and all that family and community offer “… do ‘s the community/ rabbeim/ parents offer that security?
Your question seems to me, to be very very naive. At all times, for all children, the parent, Rebbe and/or mentor will have to balance love with discipline. Unfortunately most of these boys aren’t just lazy or caught up doing with bad things, but have had negative school and/or other experiences and TO BRING THEM BACK much warmth is needed.
The typical boy who has MILD attention issues and doesn’t follow instructions well and didn’t pay attention well in class. He’s received a lot of discipline and frustration from parents and Rebbes and right now warmth would do him a lot of good.
What a genius concept …love ALL your children, now why didnt i think of that???
Who are you to judge these kids? Do you know why they are the way they are?? What are you doing to help the situation? Does the comunity as a whole stand behind the only program that works tirelessly to help these boys? Maybe instead of cowardly sitting behind your computer, call R Abadi and tell them him you want to help, actually probably not such a good idea because you would most likely do more damage then good. Just send him a check and Hashem should bentch you that you should never need to rely on his sevices!
No child just goes off the derech because it looks fun. If a child is doing well in school, and is getting his needs met at home, then life is good. There is no reason to go off.
Children need attention, and they will get it any way they can….negative or positive. A child who is misbehaving or acting out is begging for someone to notice them. The article even admits that children off the derech get trips, hangouts…they are finally getting the attention they were craving. … someone finally noticied them.
Parents and teachers need to notice and recognize every child, not just the top learners who make them proud. Parents and teachers need to stop judging their own success through their children’s
acheivements and accomplishments. We do not live vicariously through our children. We allow our children to be individuals in the perameters of yiddishkeit.
I went off as a teen and work with troubled kids honestly if my parents threw me out I would not be frum today. There are some cases that it is good to throw the kids out and some cases not exp if it messing up younger siblings. Also a valid point you brought is that parents and school and teachers a lot of time don’t give kids same attention as kids that have a few issues a lot of kids off have major potential and are smart. Lakewood has a prob that if a kid can’t sit and learn all day it is wrong to go to a program like Chavrai HaKollel witch I believe is the best program. A place like the minyan is great to have also as it for kids already off I firmly believe troubled kids should not b there. Also if u put on a colored shirt u are looked at diff a lot of kids would still b frum if there are excepted as not yeshivish like wearing jeans or colored shirt. Once they feel like they are not excepted they say screw this I will show them!!!
What about the yungerleit at risk (closet off the derech)
Why aren’t we being helped?
My married daughter with 2 beautiful kids, KA”H, gave us a big scare with this issue when she was a teen. She never went off the derech, but we didn’t know how far she would go and we were terrified. The whole issue was very new then. Against my instincts, I listened to the mechanchim who suggested warmth and giving her leeway. I thought it would be terrible for her midos to give in to some things. But at that time midos wasn’t a priority. Her Yiddishkeit was. B”H, I feel the advice helped and she is leading a fine, stable life now. SHe is not “yeshivish” as is our family, but she is frum and settled and giving us loads of nachas.
You have to learn to pick your battles and look away. THat’s what works.
NEVER kick your child out of your home…NEVER.
I happen to agree with the one who wrote the letter 100%. I’ve seen it in so many settings where a bunch of these boys are doing things that most others would not get away with and dare we say a word. many examples come to mind but just to mention one, and have seen it a number of times these boys rolling into shul friday night just by the end of maariv – davening is not on their agenda yet they have the chutzpah to start a raucus in middle of everyone’s shmonei esra and when someone finally gives them a shhh!!!! the look on these boy’s face is beyond comprehension,like how dare you tell me shhh!!!, you could almost read these boy’s mind ‘youre lucky I came to shul’. There is a level chutzpah that these boys feel that they can get away with because ‘we are etc. …’ I’ve said this many times they can make all the excuses why they are what they are, down here, but I doubt its going work for them after 120, and they are going to be pleasantly surprised.
Who said to throw ur kid out of the house?!?! What’s wrong with you? Of course not!!!!!! Give LOVE and attention at the same time, we gotta try and put the foot on the brakes!!!!!
i was treated with deal with your own mistakes meaning my rents said to have a nice day and i dint get programs or be soon fed every step off the way. they were told to let me sink to the very bottom and ill realize what is real, let me tell u something i am frum today i bh have 4 kids and i have emotional and sychological issues and see doctors every day i felt like noone loved me and that there was no point in living and that it dint matter if i overdosed or died cause who really cares. honestly i am not saying whats rite or wrong but the one thing u should never do is kick your child out of the house because i slept on benches in cars in parks and worse places and i hate my family for that even though they thought it wasd right!?!?!?!?!?! point is if you feel u cant have them at home cause they r a bad influence or for what ever reason find them a place to stay show them u love them and if you have to spoon feed them every step of the way if you wanna keep them ur family
Anyone who can write such an article, has no concept of chinuch or parenting.
To number 23
smart 1 says:
June 16, 2011 at 12:44 pm
I would like to respond to two of your points.
POINT 1) you mentioned:
“I just want to point out one thing and that is that what ever your suggesting IS NOT WORKING!!!”
-What’s NOT working?
Are you involved?
Did you ever to try & DO/SAY something nice?
YES. I AM VERY involved! I’ve given MANY hours of my life to listening to broken hearts!
There are guys that were ‘on the streets’ for NUMEROUS years!!
So far, many of them have returned to yeshiva, normal life, & eventually marriage and raising NORMAL frum families! (ALL thanks to a bit of love from people who have some bein adam lachaveiro – aka R’ Chaim Abadi and co.)
So, I ask you: WHAT IS NOT WORKING???
POINT 2) you mentioned:
“….and try going back to the way our parents were mechanech us!”
This ‘point’ of yours, I’ll answer with a story that occurred with the satmar Rebbe R’ Yoel ZT”L.
People once complained to the Rebbe ZT”L about a certain older melamed in Williamsburg. They said that he hits the children, etc.
The Rebbe ZT”L called him in to inquire about the issue. The melamed declared, “I have a mesorah from my rabbeim about how to be mechanech. I have the ‘shlissel’ which was handed down to me from my Rabbeim.”
The Rebbe Zt’l answered, “You may have the ‘shlissel’, but you are trying to use it in the wrong lock!”
AH! BEAUTIFUL!!
My dear friend (smart 1) To bring home the Rebbes point, just compare the generation of when our parents brought us up to the generation of our children’s upbringing.
Until you LIVE the same (simple) (under the same circumstances/influences) life that your parents LIVED –
You can not expect to bring up your children the exact SAME way!
Of course, it is inexcusable to go against Torah & Halacha, BUT WE HAVE DIFFERENT LOCKS AND THEREFORE MUST USE DIFFERENT KEYS!!!
Just some GENERAL comparisons:
Parents – MAYBE one jalopy car (after a few years of marriage)
US – At LEAST one car worth thousands! (at start of marriage)
HInt: Rid yourself of car luxury, then re-post your comment!
Parents – MAYBE some a/c in the house (not central a/c)
US – Central a/c 24hrs or units in every room
HInt: Turn off your air conditioners, then re-post your comment!
Parents – TWO bedroom apartment (after MANY years of marriage)
US – HOUSE / multiple rooms (MUCH earlier on in marriage)
HInt: Move back to a small apartment, then re-post your comment!
Parents – ONE kitchen sink. ONE bathroom.
US – TWO kitchen sinks. (usually more bathrooms)
HInt: Rid yourself of 1 sink & 1 toilet, then re-post your comment!
Parents – MAYBE one phone at home (not even cordless)
US – At LEAST one cordless phone (& at LEAST 1 cel. phone)
HInt: Rid yourself of cel phone, then re-post your comment!
The list goes on and on and on…..
B’kitzur live (in gashmius) the way your parents lived! THEN ask daas Torah if you can TRY to deal with your children’s ruchnius in the manner dealt you by your parents!
You should have lots of hatzlacha and ONLY nachas from your children (&mine)
Bye-bye
You got to love them, love them, and love them some more, that goes for kids on and r’l off the derech. violence only breeds violence.
to 33
u said ” ….they can make all the excuses why they are what they are, down here, but I doubt its going work for them after 120, and they are going to be pleasantly surprised.”
Hey BIG tzaddik: I’m sure you will be surprised too!
What I understand , the writer is trying to bring a point across. Without getting all offended. NO ONE disagrees on the FACT that we have to LOVE all our kids no matter what they do, and of course NOT throw them out of the house. And give them attention, love and encoregment that regardless whatever they do, we still love them.
But, and this is the point, EVERYONE and no matter who you are, needs boundries, if (like #35 says) they make a rucus in shul, walk in late ect…… why cant they be told very clear that their are lines you DO NOT cross, when ur in society. Let me tell you, with dealing with these kids, they crave to feel part of it, to hold on to somthing and if you lower the bar, by letting everything pass. You are not doing them any faver.
I once was speaking to a person who had some “dealings” with a troubled boy. I sighed and said,”well, he’s a problem-child”
His response was priceless (&many times true).
He said, “No, he is not a problem-child! He just has ‘problem parents’.”
The Torah D is not to aggravate , criticize, or condone the actions of those in a matzav that you are not in ” Al tadun es chaverecha….’
Each an every Neshama has a special mission & a different path to rectify the stumbling blocks. Why would the writer assume that there’s a one size fits all approach. Imagine a Doctor gave all his patients the same medication…. Only Hashem has the one solution for his flock in Galus….The ultimate redeemer.
To All, I will start with my disagreement i disagree with the idea that these kids are at fault at this stage of “off the d” because most probably they had issues that went unnoticed untill they started acting out in school and at home, then hanging out with the more troubled kids leading them to this stage, and now that theyre noticed It is not the kids fault being his brain isnt fully developed he works on feelings and emotions no matter how smart and mature he believes he is, youre still talking about a teenager but the problem most likely started around 9-10 yrs old and was blamed on his brains/concentration or just labeled a shvacha kid and thrown under the bus unfortunetly.NOW that being said once we are in this situation and a kid is “off the d” not blaming him for getting there maybe its his parents fault or teachers etc.BUT these kids have no RESPECT at all!! when i was a teenager about 8-10 yearsago in lakewood. we did the same things these kids try to do but we always had respect and didnt shove it down everyone elses throats aka walking around with no yarlmuka and girls etc these kids want to be treated like a regular non jewish teenager well i have some news if you were that in any other non jewish comunity you would get beat up for the disrespect you show to adults and elders.you want to have fun go ahead you dont want to be jewish because of your rebiem and parents fine but learn respect or expect to get hit by someone with a little courage. and respect means dont talk down to anyone becuase they look yeshivesh and you group them together with all people you dislike and dont curse in front of my kids or wife! i hope someone can let me know if they echo my feelings
#38 why are you calling me Big Tzaddik. I am cool masmid. By going on attack mode doesnt change the facts and that is its time we stopped makung excuses for these boys and for their dismal behaviour and its time we call it like it is.
Today, I saw a car full of very not Jewish looking 18-20 year old boys. Then I noticed one (more Jewish looking one) had a yarmulka. I imagine they were all Jewish. Very sad.
I feel that we need to be very open to all types, but there is a very important line between being a different type and being troubled rebellious, or hefker.
Rabbi Wallerstein couldn’t agree more. in one of his maaaannnyyy shiurim he mentioned this issue. he says we must be TOUGH because obviously the whole love them, kiss them, thing is NOT working.
he said that once a boy game to his house at 2 in the morning asking if he could sleep by him because his father told him he must be home by 12 or he will be locked out and he wasn’t so dad locked him out.
surprisingly the rabbi said no and told him to sleep “on a bench in the park” to think about his actions and his life and what his goals in life are.since than he’s seeing major improvement from the boy.
the rabbi is a professional mechanech and deals with them 24/7, he knows teens VERY well.
also I believe that teaching the values of yiddishkeit in school is the best. they just don’t know…..
in my high school (in lkwd)I had a gr8 teacher who gave us alot of hashkafa and almost every day would describe the low, boring, depressed, materialistic, pressuring lives the goyim have. everyone remembered this and it really prevented kids from going off. than she contrasted to what WE Have , its incomparable.
she was GREAT. and it was coming from a teacher who we could relate too, not a rebetzin that has her head up in the clouds and doesn’t know whats out there. We were able to ask all our questions about Judaism and not be called an appikores. Plus, we got great answers! really helped me tonz.
and im sure it’ll help others too
To editor
I put in lots of time thinking through my comment. Why is it not here??
everything u said is 100% true but u have too just know that hashem runs the world and KEEP ON DAVENING FOR THE RIGHT THINGS
Although the letter writer does have some valid points here, I will have to disagree with my post here. Beneath ever kid’s at risk’s heart is the reason(s) why this child is off the “D.” You never know what physical, emotional, or mental damage a child received as a youngster and is scarred from .
Yes, there are people who unfortunately didn’t have a clean youth and may be scarred from his/her past. These issues stemmed from things that were beyond a child’s control. If an adult constantly puts a child thru verbal abuse, the child is likely to grow up with some sort of emotional scars. This is not the child’s fault but the child is damaged from it.
Some people are naive and cannot phantom to see the emotional issues that a person can be faced with. This is the reason why these children need all the warmth and love from the good people who run organizations for these youth. If a person gets emotional help and attains a healthy mindset and self-esteem, it will be better for returning to Judiasm. A person cannot possibly be a righteous God fearing Jew if one is so unhappy with onesef and has so many emotional and mental issues to deal with.
The best thing us as outsiders can do is not judge and be kind. Treat these kids like “regular” kids; not “off the D” kids. They want to be treated “normal”, not like they are handicapped c”v.
Some experts hold that you must not support an addict in any way and must throw him out on the street.
some experts hold that you should…..
oh- come on!
I’m also one who is deeply involved in a very sad story 🙁 what the writer is concerned about is the boys that AREN’T off the D yet, and yes, I know a boy who is being drawn right off – NOT because he is hurting (and challenge me if you want, I know what I’m talking about), but because he has very close friends and family on the “other side” (unfortunately) who are showing him “the good life”. They have it ALL! no, they aren’t enstranged, living right at home, with plenty of attention and every whim taken care of “so they feel the love”, but also job, money, girls… whatever they want – in their short sighted teenage world!! Why should any kid who isn’t doing AMAZING in the high pressure yeshiva world, want to stay frum? Especially those that need the extra attention, this is a very good way to manipulate everyone around them. And when an older sibling or friend is waiting has “done it successfully” and is “happy”, then the problem is tenfold. YES, many go off b/c they hurt, and I think the new problem is that many are going off because we are rolling out the red carpet for them. I think the writer has a very sad but true point, I’m right there now, and it hurts.
#20. Boy did you get it right!
#33 you only post to get people mad or
are ADD or
are the world’s biggest (moderated).
Get a life and stop aggrivating people.
#53 YOU ARE SO RIGHT!!!!!
If you were to ask a doctor why he’s not a plumber, he might answer that he doesn’t know one end of a wrench from the other. If you ask a plumber why he’s not a doctor, he might reply that he can’t stand the sight of blood. The point I’m trying to make is that each person has his own talents and abilities. Parents and teachers need to realize that you can’t expect Moishy to be Chaim. Moishy’s Moishy and Chaim’s Chaim. What’s good or works for one isn’t necessarily good or right for the other. Chanoch lanar al pi darko. Trying to turn Moishy into Chaim makes about as much sense as calling a plumber when you need an appendectomy. The job of parents and teachers is to ensure that Moishy grows up to be the best Moishy he can be and Chaim becomes the best Chaim he can be. If that means that Moishy becomes a plumber instead of a doctor or Chaim becomes a doctor instead of a plumber, then so be it. The bottom line is, you can’t force a square peg into a round hole. The sooner parents and teachers learn and accept this, the better it’ll be for them and their children/students. Love and affection; warmth; fairness; kindness; compliments; and, encouragement go a long way. A happy and contented child who knows he’s loved and appreciated won’t need to look elsewhere to feel like a mentsch.
off the d ,what does that mean ? whos derech ? each individual has their own path in life and for some of them, how ever unfortinute it may seem to you, that may mean spending some time not conforming to your perception of “the d”. browsing through the some of the comment on this blog can be really disturbing. label’s such as rotten eggs, concepts such as let them sleep on the streets and the frum fundementalist way of thinking in my simple opinion seems to perpetuate the “teens at risk crisis” .remember we are talking about human beings ,with human emotions that laugh and cry are happy and sad , sometimes it seems like they are percieved as packages that hopefully we can mold into our version of frumkeit at all costs .this statement may upset some people but frumkeit or this communities version of it, is not everything in this world .how about emotional stability ? good work ethic, morals ?i dont believe that lakewoods version of frumkeit is the only way or “D” .there are many ways and paths that people can take that can build good charachter and lead to somebody living a happy life. im just taking a shot at this here but im going to assume that a good part of these children resent in some form or another the frum lifestyle or have some serious qoustions about it. and they have a right to do their own soul searching .teens by nature are rebellious and ask questions. maybe god made it that way for a reason .and its our challange how to answer those qoustions and respond to their actions in a apropiate manner that keeps in mind their overall wellbeing. i am not a learned person but i cant imagine that in the torah in its infinite wisdom would there be any statement that condones treating people harshly at the expense of their physical emotional well being for the sole purpose of making them more frum.
i couldn’t really read all these posts, cuz they just all didn’t feel right. all i want to say, is i’m a girl. i’ve been there, done that. and now i’m on my way back to Emes, Baruch Hashem.
Few points:
why are you “walking on eggshells” around them? you know the feeling when someone is doing it to you.. you sense it, and you wish they would just be sincere, whether or not they’re happy with you.
you can’t just pool together some people and say “hey maybe we should be tough on them maybe that’s good for them”. no, each person individually has to be their unique self, and act however they think they should. which, if they’d be God- Fearing Torah learning Jews, they’d probably be practicing V’ahavta leraiacha kamocha, and Hevai Dan Es Kol Hadam Lekaf Zechus, and “greet each person with a smile”, and all the laws of Lashon Hara, and all other practical Bein Adam Lechaveiro mitzvos. My point is, be a role model, be someone who others can look up to and learn from, not that they look at you as people who are nice yeah, but theyre’ just avoiding me.. like i’m some kinda big stink bomb in middle of the room… that’s not sincerity. that’s not what V’ahavta leraiacha kamocha means.
Lastly, people always mistakenly assume, that kids off the derech can only relate to “cool” people. WRONG! my biggest role models, were the most Frum sincere simple people who never even heard of most of the things I was occupying myself with in my teenage years.the “cool” frum “helpers”, yeah sometimes helped out.. but in the end of the day, a kid that went off the derech… knows the derech they came from, and when the “derech” they came from is shown to them from people who are following it but in a way that is correct (obviously they didn’t have it right.. nobody would leave the right way of life if they were doing it right, it’s beautiful)… they have a burning desire to return and be a part. So… don’t try to outsmart them, don’t try to toughen up. Just be yourselves, grow closer to Hashem and Torah… and be a role model by being your unique individual self, and letting it show. May Moshiach come soon in our time…
dont pick a war you cant win we do try to treat you guys write but imagine how it feels that every person in this town looks at you as if you were (moderated) im still my parents kid wherther religios or not why are you always tryin to convince me to your way of life and even try to force me at times why cant you just be happy with your life and maybe actually wen ur
kids are yuong teach them sum morales becuz u have to be a normal person first then u can have religion