Dear TLS:
I have lived in Lakewood for many years. However, I have been a New York Yankees fan and a general baseball fan for an even longer period of time. When I was in New York I was always able to watch the World Series or the SuperBowl. When I came to Lakewood I quickly learned that baseball was officially banned. I have been told that baseball is bitul Torah, bitul z’man, and not meant for a ben Torah to watch.I agree with these statements. However, is baseball the worse yetzer hora in the world? I know some people who watch the game at sports bars in Toms River since it is banned in Lakewood.
Coventry has a club house with a big screen television. I think yidden who have a tiva to watch the playoffs and the World Series would do much less damage to their souls if they were allowed to watch the game in a controlled environment then being forced to go to a sports bar in Toms River.
Sincerely,
A NY Yankees fan
At least post where the sports bar is! I would go there! Watching it online is not that great quality!
I have many yungelaight friends who go watch the games in bars all over lakewood, i didnt think much of it until my wife told me that her friend cry s to her that her husband goes and sits in a bar every night like a goy , it would one thing if he went out to learn night seder but this is disgusting. so all of you grow up and stop following childish games and do something productive with your lives, the issue isnt whether its “ossur or biggest aveira or yetzer hora”, just get a life.!
I think the fact that it one feels that in Lakewood he should not be watching games etc. is a good thing. It shows respect for this wonderful ir hatorah. However, I also understand the taaveh to watch a sports game. It is a lot better to watch a sports game than other shmutz that is out there. U just gotta love Lakewood.
what website can you watch it on?
Please there are better things to worry about then going to watch baseball games!!!
There is nothing wrong with someone who feels they need an outlet other then learning 24/7 to watch a baseball game. The problem is when everyone makes you so crazy and then you cannot even listen in your own homes to the game on the radio because you are committing such a terrible crime and then our husbands and boys have to go elsewhere to fufill their taaveh. Halevai all the kids at risk would of been allowed to just enjoy their games at home and wouldnt have had to go to the streets to get what they think they need. I think it is time for everyone to rethink what kind of world we live in and how the yetzer hara is steering at us wherever we turn.
I grew up in lakewood and not only watched but I played in the majors and won a wolrld series in 1986 with the Mets ..I heared a vort.. vayishlach yaakov malachim ..and the yankees sent home the angels.
If one has a ‘tay’va’ , the rule is: ‘yilbash she’chorim,. v’yay’laych l’mokom sha’ein ma’keerim oisoi’ -dress in black and go to a place that nobody knows you .
‘tay’va’ is no excuse to allow it to perpetuate in a controled ‘se’vivah’.
Its ‘shape up or ship out’ –
The radio announcers are much better. Just go into your car, the reception is probably best there.
Rationalizing can be a very good thing, but if not done correctly can be the beginning of a very slippery slope.
Of course it would be better if “The Game” could be watched locally under controlled situations but further rationalizing would probably say that it better to have it in the home where the dedicated husband is available to help his wife if she needs a helping hand. I would not be suprised if there are fand who would love to watch the game but dont wnt to shlep to TR so they go to learn or something else constructive instead.
Different people have different needs but that does not mean that we have to make those Taavos available to the entire neighborhood!
It’s much better to watch it in a heimishe atmosphere on a big screen at the Coventry clubhouse with the baseball fever in the air, than sit in Bais Medrash kereiach mikan umikan, have your mind on the game, checking scores and not learning anyway, and likely distracting others with score updates, running in and out. When you’re not holding by learning, don’t sit in Bais Medrash.
Go Yankees go.
Without agreeing or disagreeing with the general point of the writer my advice to him is: If you feel that the current Lakewood standards are too restrictive etc. please move elsewhere.
A NY Yankee Fan: I am not sure what you mean by the controlled environment. What do you propose?
Also, note that not all bars are created equal. Due to my work I had to visit plenty of bars and most of them are quite innocous. Admittedly, the atmosphere there to put it midly is not too conducive to growth in Yiras Shomaim, but otherwise it’s just about being in a not frum environment. Most of the bars are just restaurants with a bar stand.
In my view, if you are a full time learner it’s not a place to be, but if you are not, it’s not the end of the world. To those who ‘absolutely’ must go see the game, and who want to minimize unwanted exposure, I would recommend Applebees. There you don’t have to seat by the bar stand and you can get your own table.
What, in Brooklyn they have “controlled enviroments” for watching these games?!? Of course they don’t. What you’re really asking is to have a TV. Fine! if that’s what you want, then its your choice. Where in Lakewood do you see a sign saying “baseball banned”? Nowhere! Yes, its true, rabbeim in yeshivos discourage following sports in general. But any family that is ok with it will let the kids listen to a game on the radio. Do you expect TV and internet to be brought into your home, just so you can have this “little” taiva?
Lakewood used to really be Ir Hatorah. Where people just devoted their life to Avodas Hashem. As Lakewood opened its borders, every type of yid moving in claims they are just as pious as the next yid, and they too want to be accepted into the tight inner circle called “Lakewood”.
Nobody’s judging anyone, but for those who were in Lakewood before and set the standards way before everyone else came, dont have to accept anyone as the same. Lets face it, we’re not all the same!
I was always very involved in sports. When I hit 40 yrs old I said to myself that as much fun as it is, it just has to stop. There is much more to life then to watch goyim wacking a ball around. Trust me you will feel very fulfilled if you spend your evenings in the Beis Medrash or even at home keeping your family company. Try it this year, make yourself a shomer and also intice yourself with a reward if you avoid watching, reading or even shmoozing about the series. I guarantee you will feel like a champion!!
if its wrong its wrong. end of story…
The Yanks are going to win the World Series. The Phils will be lucky if they don’t get swept.
The Phillies rule. The Phils will sweep the Yanks with A-Rod and all.
B”H i have no interest in following sports. I am just wondering why it has become so normal for kollel yungeleit to go to a baseball game to chill. Why are there young “yeshivish” ppl who dress the dress and look the look but they are obsessed with going to movies and games. In our Torah, it clearly states that yidden do not belong in the batei karkios. That is referring to theaters and statiums (and other places where the goyim go to hang out. in this case, a sports bar would also in the category of batei karkios.) In the event that you are interested in watching a game, you dont have to do so by making a chillul Hashem. You dont belong hanging out in the same places as goyim whether its a theater, stadium, or a bar. If you want to follow the game, do so in a manner without causing a chillul hashem.
You don’t think it looks out of place when you go to a stadium and see a frum ‘yeshivish’ couple sitting there drinking coke watching the game???
if u wana watch the game go back to ny no one needs u here
i live in Israel and get the games online. there are guys who stream all NY area team games in HD for a min fee of $5 a month.
There is nothing wrong woth watching a game its just that people put others down to put themselves up!!!!
I actually watched the ALCS, when you talk about a controlled environment do you mean turning of the TV when the Ciallis commercials come on or when they show the ladies in Black commercial? in theory yes it wouldn’t be the biggest aveirah to watch the game itself but the commercials, you can’t justify. If that’s the case Strike Three you’re out!!!
R’ Yeruchum Shlita, during his Friday afternoon chumash shiur, mentioned the medrash about this subject numerous times. The Medrash in Rus concerning eim tailech ailech states that Nami told Rus that a bas yisroel does not go to theatres. R’ Yeruchum Levovitz ZTL asks that why is that the first thing to tell a potential geyores, tell them about shabbos? He answers that the Medrash demonstrates how geirus is not just going from 7 to 613; rather, a yid is totally different than a goy. I understand the teivah, I had it in my youth also. Look to Rus as a role model.
How very sad this young man is. I don’t think there is anything wrong necassarily with watching a game other than U’vchukosayhem lo selaychoo. I work only with non jews, I’m the only frum person in a workplace of a few hundred. I hear them obsess and go crazy over sports and think to myself how shallow and empty their lives must be. Do us all a favor if you want to watch the game rent a hotel room somewhere don’t make a chillul hashem by going to the coventry club house and publicly acting no different from our non jewish neighbors. And if you go to a bar see to it that you don’t appear to be an ultra orthodox jew, with a long beard and peyos , white shirt dark pants and oh a baseball cap. Dress like the people whose interests you share, so that the majority out there don’t misunderstand and think you represent the average ben torah.
While everybody is free to do as they please , I now understand why those people who were here for 30 years and formed schools so their kids can be shelteres from different things , should be allowed to exclude those families who don’t share their view on theses things.
Everyone get your head out of the sand & realize we have many more problems on our hands than some people involved in sports. How many (relatively) Kosher outlets are there for the Yidden that need a little entertainment. I’m not condoning going to Bar’s & the such, but if it’s the right venue, why not. To the guy that says ‘Lakewood opened it’s borders to other Yidden’ & ‘The inner circle called Lakewood’, you do not own Lakewood & every Jew can move wherever he or she would like. This is America! I know plenty of Chashuvim who used to attend baseball games. For some people this is their outlet. If you don’t like it, lump it. By the way, listening to Susan & John on the radio is hazardous to your health!
UNITERESTED says:
October 28, 2009 at 12:55 pm
B”H i have no interest in following sports. I am just wondering why it has become so normal for kollel yungeleit to go to a baseball game to chill. Why are there young “yeshivish” ppl who dress the dress and look the look but they are obsessed with going to movies and games. In our Torah, it clearly states that yidden do not belong in the batei karkios. That is referring to theaters and statiums (and other places where the goyim go to hang out. in this case, a sports bar would also in the category of batei karkios.) In the event that you are interested in watching a game, you dont have to do so by making a chillul Hashem. You dont belong hanging out in the same places as goyim whether its a theater, stadium, or a bar. If you want to follow the game, do so in a manner without causing a chillul hashem.
You don’t think it looks out of place when you go to a stadium and see a frum ‘yeshivish’ couple sitting there drinking coke watching the game???
LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
The day you stop blogging on the internet is the day you can tell people how to live their lives. The smell of your hypocrisy smells all over llakewood
I can say that everybody should be accepted for who they are and respect each other with baseball without baseball hashem would be much happier with achduis in the baseball statuim then in bmg with fighting
at least the husbands are telling their wives the truth, that they are going to watch the game, instead of lieing to their wives and telling them that they are going to learn, but really are going to watch the game.
to just in–
All because i pointed out to you how some of ur actions are wrong, doesnt mean i’m a hypocrite. I’m a female, married with a whole family and i have no interest in sports but i know that it is wrong to go to theaters, stadiums, and bars. I’m sorry if you have the taivah to go to these places and if you follow your taivah to go there. Nebach. Face your reality.
Vayishlach Yakov maluchim – The Yankees sent home the Angels ….
UNITERESTED says:
October 28, 2009 at 3:15 pm
to just in–
All because i pointed out to you how some of ur actions are wrong, doesnt mean i’m a hypocrite. I’m a female, married with a whole family and i have no interest in sports but i know that it is wrong to go to theaters, stadiums, and bars. I’m sorry if you have the taivah to go to these places and if you follow your taivah to go there. Nebach. Face your reality.
—————————————————————————————–
if you are not a hypocrite then please tell us what is the meaning of a hypocite
uninterested doesnt seem like a hypocrite to me. he said that he doesnt frequent any bars, theaters, or stadiums. look at how u guys jump on him. Amazing.
you guys should stick to your beliefs and stay out of the outside world. Why contaminate your lives with all the outside influences?
Listen Guys, I am having a blast of a day just reading all these post, I can’t stop laughing. And the names, my gosh it’s about time you guys became creative
TLS: This is a great entertainment outlet and it’s Kosher too, thank you.
Im convinced that after reading these comments ,everybody will finally wake up and understand that the schools have a right who to accept and who not to . Different ideas are fine but different schools for kids from families with those ideas are fine too
BRAD PITT says:
October 28, 2009 at 3:31 pm
uninterested doesnt seem like a hypocrite to me. he said that he doesnt frequent any bars, theaters, or stadiums. look at how u guys jump on him. Amazing.
???????????????????????????
firstly its a her not a him . secondly she does reek from hypocrisy. if u can’t smell go to a ENT. I know of a decent ones in your ihr hakodesh
There will be a free viewing of tonight’s Yanks – Phils game at Lake Terrace on a Huge Plasma in HD! All those that are full of it & really want to watch the game but are scared to show their face, we will be handing out brown paper bags to conceal your identity.
unintersted – what do u feel about being on the internet ? right wrong? listening to a baseball game or allowing the internet seems like a n-brainer
Can you please tell me why is it that if I go to a bar to watch the game and I sit there quietly minding my own business is it a chillul hashem?
I think to the contrary, the goy sees us sitting there peacefully and thinks to himself; wow these are nice decent people, not screaming, coursing etc…
schools: If I were to subscribe to the bigoted views you espose, I would rather have my child go to the school with the children whose parents go the bars to watch baseball games than to have my child in the same school as yours. I know personally a few very serious yungerlait who had gone through hell when their children were excluded from certain schools because their wifes were rumored not to wear long enough sleeves for their neighbour’ liking. Are you G-D or something to visit offen unfounded sins of parents on their children?
regardless of the issue, there is always at least one person who comments that ” oh, but you’re on the internet, so you can’t comment…” get over it, one thing is certain, everyone reading this is on the internet, stick to the issue at hand if you want to be taken seriously.
yanks in 6
let my people go
If deciding that going to sports bars and being interested in sports is not something my children should be exposed to makes me a bigot in your eyes ,well then I am a bigot.
In todays day and age, sports should be the Worst thing u fallow/do. When so many kids are off becuase Yeshivos have too much pressure and long hours and there is no outlit for kids, they find other things to do… Smoking, girls… Sports should be encorage as a kosher outlit. And fallowing the game is not soo back. And I am a mother!
Schools says:
October 28, 2009 at 4:04 pm
Im convinced that after reading these comments ,everybody will finally wake up and understand that the schools have a right who to accept and who not to . Different ideas are fine but different schools for kids from families with those ideas are fine too
1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111
NO PROBLEM SO WHEN YOUR DAUGHTER OR GRAND DAUGHTER IS CAUGHT WEARING A TIGHT TOP OR WEARING HER DRESS TOOO LONG OR WEARING EARINGS THAT ARE TOOO LONG IN YOUR CONVOLUTED MIND THEN I WILL MAKE SURE SHE CAN NOT ENTER ANY SCHOL HERE IN THIS TOWN . SEND HER TO LA OR RHODE ISLAND
once again thx to TLS for bringing to our attention another very important issue. seems like what lakewood needs is more special needs schools for all these air heads sports fans.
If some1 has reached the level of tayva on something so uninteligent unglamorous unattractive then obviously hes lacking, so thusfore he dont belong in the bais medrash anyway fooling himself.
if watching baseball is so fascinating to u to the extent that ur willing to abandon ur wife n kids or make money or anything constructive even if its just temporary, YES you are an Air Head. no brains n therefore mind stimulation is not desired. so what is it that you want from yeshiva? the coffe room to hock around with others n try to feel cool that theres a topic that u actually have knowlege about?
TRUE everyone needs an outlet, but get ur prorities straight, n atleast try to remember who u r instead of getting fascinated like a beer drinking air head bum with no life.
Is this “bar” in Toms River initialed “D.D.”? What’s wrong with it, they don’t even serve alcohol. There’s at least a minyan in there now watching the game.
Poor Baby Ruth says:
October 28, 2009 at 7:02 pm
once again thx to TLS for bringing to our attention another very important issue. seems like what lakewood needs is more special needs schools for all these air heads sports fans.
If some1 has reached the level of tayva on something so uninteligent unglamorous unattractive then obviously hes lacking, so thusfore he dont belong in the bais medrash anyway fooling himself.
if watching baseball is so fascinating to u to the extent that ur willing to abandon ur wife n kids or make money or anything constructive even if its just temporary, YES you are an Air Head. no brains n therefore mind stimulation is not desired. so what is it that you want from yeshiva? the coffe room to hock around with others n try to feel cool that theres a topic that u actually have knowlege about?
TRUE everyone needs an outlet, but get ur prorities straight, n atleast try to remember who u r instead of getting fascinated like a beer drinking air head bum with no life.
00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
I would rather be a bum following sports as an outlet then be a bum and worse by browing the web, as my outlet.
The yanks promise if they win they will give bmg their masar money
I rock
i am besides myself seeing how niderik u all are getting. the only thing worse is how bad the yanakees are taking it on the chin. nu, that will teach u yatzmachs for going to bars and coventry shul to watch the tayva. oy
I own the Hankees!
It looks like Chavrusa Tumult with the amount of guys smoking outside my bar between innings.
If the yanks win the w.s. The yanks will give their masaer money to bmg, b”n. TLS, how come u don’t put in my comments?
BMG is doing a gr8 service to Yankee fans !!!!!!!!
Go Phillies
PS; Pedro ” Who’s your Daddy” is up next : )
Some people are sincerely frum and don’t follow baseball, etc., but they don’t look down on others who do. Those who put down others have serious ga’avah issues and probably a whole host of problems.
They surely have a myopic, self centered, and unrealistic view of life.
On the other side, those striving to achieve higher levels of frumkeit, but aren’t there yet, should work ot their issues in a private manner.
Grow up everyone. Yes I am an out of towner but I have lived in lkwd for over 15 years.
Although I do not watch the games, as a child I used to get free tickets and go in the summer to the stadium almost weekly . It was more of a family oriented setting then. Today maybe not.
In regards to baseball being ” a yetzer hora” and if someone is into it he should not be in the beis medrash is a stupid comment.
I know of a top yungerman who I grew up with who knew every player and all their statitics. And when it came to learning he was the same brilliant person and yes his yichus to one of the oldest roshe yeshiva in america would shock you.
So let’s look at todays bachur. If you take a baseball fanatic fan and tell him its 100 asur he will not use his memory to also learn.
Rav hutner was known for working with individual bochrim and make special allowances catering to each ones needs.
Yes todays stadiums are much diffrent then what was in the 80’s but let’s all just try to find a way to see good in others.
To the person who wrote this letter/article you better find the right rav/ posek for you as there are many of them in town that can understand your wave length and individual needs. You would be shocked.
At the sametime as a whole lakewood is a yeshiva town with its unique rules that all of us should respect. You knew this before moving here. And yes we need to stop judging others and unique indviduals (like me and you)still need to respect the rules and at the sametime keep our individuality
just in —
you def win this one for getting the most worked up about nothing…hope your blood pressure is doing ok…if you need help please seek medical attention…
yankee fan, get a life please, we wanted a torahdik town , that’s why we moved here, don’t like it? go to toms river
Mark Levin:
You and all you other narrow minded Lakewooders. YOU DON’T OWN THIS TOWN!!!! When and if you purchase a town of your own, you will have a right to control it. And by the way, where in your Torah does it teach you intollerance and ahavas yisroel. Not everybody will and should be like you! There will always be an element of Yiden to the right and to the left of where you are. Maybe you should learn to love and respect every fellow-yid. I am sure there lots of things that a “Yankee Fan” might do in their life that is of an elevated madreiga of what you might do. Find the good in everyone and learn to respect them!
Yeshivish people are so funny!!!
You have a drug problem in the frum community in Lakewood,
You have hundreds of kids dropping frumkeit completley,
You have hundreds more dropping it in secret (talking on their cell phone on shabbos when no one is around ect. but acting frum in public)
You have hundreds of kids who are staying frum but are dropping out of school
Largly because they are sick of being made to feel like they are doing somthing wrong any time they dress nice or do anything fun, and other reasons i cant post here
But you guys just keep on assiring things (cell phones, texting, ball games ect.) and telling people that if they dont like how you do things THEY should leave ……. and then you wonder why the problems wont go away and why so many your teens are taking you up on it and leaving.
If it wasnt so pathetic it would really be kinda funny.
MOD,
i changed my last comment to make more acceptable please dont jus delete it
What is wrong with you guys.I lived in lakewood 2 years ago ,I had a television and I watched it like normal.And nobody said anything to me.watching baseball is completly parve,no issurim.
an shuldik vos iz de jankees ? vosssss?
It has come to my attention that young men are hanging out at local sports bars. Although we do not want to embarass individuals, it should be known that concerned groups are aware of and keeping an eye on those who represent a deviation from local standards of tznius and kiddush Hashem. Kol Yisroel arayvim zeh l’zeh (all Jews are responsible for one another). Please bear in mind that when individual men want to fraternize with women in public bars, it misrepresents the foundation upon which the frum community of Lakewood is based.
I have lived in Lakewood for 58 years and did not decide to have people tell me whether to have a tv or not or any other restrictions. I when moving did not know what I was going to do it is these people of the “makom torah” who tell me what to do and therefore I have to have restrictions on myself just so my children can go to a jewish school. So get out of your shell and not say you knew what you were getting yourself into when you moved here because it is not true about everybody