I must say, I am appalled of what is going on.
Are there not enough women willing to work at women’s places that men need to take their places?
Maybe it’s just me, but I find it a tremendous breach in Tznius for Frum men to be working at a Sheitel place, Frum men weighing women at a weight loss/diet center, and Frum men using women for exercise training.
Have we really lost all our sensitivity to the basics Tznius?
And I’m not one of those who say there needs to be separate men’s and women’s hours at the grocery store here in Lakewood (though perhaps it’s not a bad idea), but this is just beyond appalling.
I hope those responsible for this breech of Tznius read this and make the necessary changes immediately and prevent further Michshal.
Thank you,
A regular Lakewood resident.
(TLS welcomes your letters and opinions by submitting them to letters@thelakewoodscoop.com)
It’s very simple they want to make double pay so they don’t hire ladies and they work themself and then if u don’t come they cry out and say keep the business in town
Ive been to many shaitel places and have never seen men working there.
I didn’t know this was going on as I never experienced it myself, but if this is the case you bring up a valid point. Thank you for bringing it to public attention.
Remember not to confuse religion and feelings…
I never knew of such goings on. If it is true, it should be banned, put in cheirim, run out of town! If I saw a man in a sheitel store, I would boycott the place.
Same goes for frum men watching women ice skate. My wife went ice skating , women’s only slot and a few frum men that dropped off their daughters stayed behind to watch. Completely inappropriate! And it made the women very uncomfortable being watched by men, Now, even the men workers from the ice skating ring knew to leave, do I need to say about the frum men???
I agree 100% I can’t understand why in the world the store owner doesn’t chop that women don’t feel comfortable with a man at the register at these types of stores I mean forget Halacha it’s basic normallicy
Boy, you guys make a shrink about everything. The guy by the shetel macher is only taking money just like the guy by the cashier in the coop.
And the weight loss center is extremely important like a doctors office. I don’t see the big deal. As far as the personal trainer that is personal you should mind your own business about what goes on in people’s homes.
Yup,you probably want an ezras noshim division of hatzolah, your obgyn is probably a women, and all local drs (cohen preschel may shoner etc) should stop treating you. If your husband chv needs pt/ot therapy you probably would prefer he doesn’t get treated. Are there no boundaries in Lakewood? There are boundaries, you make them for yourself. If you don’t want a male trainer or male dr don’t use him.
To big shtink and park side, are we that pathetic that we need to explain why your wrong? Where is our principals? Is every thing permissable for money? I can’t believe that this is even a debate!
“Maybe it’s just me, but I find it a tremendous breach in Tznius for Frum men to be working at a Sheitel place…”
Why? Are the women taking off their sheitels in front of the guy? No. So what’s the issue?
So, because you have some ridiculous personal sensitivity that has nothing to do with halacha or tznius, you have potentially caused this man to lose his job and/or be embarrassed about what is, presumably, an already uncomfortable situation for him.
*slow clap* Hashem is smiling down on you.
This article is not helpful know what would be helpful asking the men at the ring nicely to leave I’m pretty sure they would’ve left …
thank you
I’m not sure who’s right or wrong but at least a women’s store should have women behind the counter so they can feel comfortable and even if the owner is doing it to save money think about all the women that shop by you and are uncomfortable
I don’t know why you couldn’t ask them the man to leave the ring.
And your wife should not be skating in front of them!
When I was a teen growing up in Boro Park over 40 years ago I found it embarrassing and untzniyusdik that men were working in a store selling women’s stockings. When I married and moved to Lakewood and slowly but surely frum stores started opening up I was happy and proud that this didn’t happen in a town like Lakewood. But like so many other things, Lakewood has lost its uniqueness and has become like any other community. Boy do I miss those days! But life moves on…Nice memories of a special town that’s not so special anymore in more ways than one.
I was in at a sheitel place last week and there were men walking around! No they weren’t only taking cash and the registers. I approached one of the ladies working there and asked them if this is normal… her response was nah it’s fine they walk very quickly past the stations. I felt super uncomfortable with having men walking around freely. It’s a total lack of tznius.
Why is this article even posted here?? Everyone should mind their own business. This isn’t the place to bring up this issue, if it’s even an issue at all
I think we’ve forgotten the concept of “Daas Torah.” It means that as Yidden, we bring such questions to our rabonim. Only a Talmid Chochom is equipped to draw the line between medical necessity (doctors, PTs, perhaps other professions) and not. Halacha, hashkafa, and sensitivity issues were never meant to be handled by bloggers.
It is good to bring up a point that involves a sensitivity; perhaps those of us who are not sensitive can learn to appreciate a sinsitivity instead of poking fun. Beyond that, it is a Posek or Rov’s place.
Perhaps you haven’t realized that before Moshe Rabeinu was niftar he left us with the whole Torah , it states , and we say it twice a day to serve him with all your heart . It means just that when you feel something please check with the Torah if you’re right or wrong not all feelings are holy or right. and just because you don’t feel comfortable does not make it wrong . I do not know what the situation is but it’s definitely not up for public comment to decide whether it’s right or wrong
It’s crazy whats going on in Lakewood and the olem is numb so everything could happen here
Last week by a dinner here in town there was a wine tasting any WHY IN THE WORLD SHOULD A LADY (GOITA) BE THE ONE TO GIVE US TO TASTE IT is this town Upper Westside or what?
Sensitivity to the halacha is what kept us around through the galus. Make sure you are one of the few who get out.
Rabosai,
If you are willing to look objectively at what is going on in lakewood now, you have to be realistic that Lakewood of 2017 looks NOTHING like Lakewood of 1997 or even 2007. Homes, cars, clothing styles,Chinese auction prizes, expectations, the list goes on.I’m not here to blame anyone, it doesn’t really bother me either because I didn’t grow up here. But, let’s not be naive. A large portion of Lakewood is really no different (and in some ways is actually lower) than any other frum community.
Huh? Is there anyone out there who really thinks its ok for a man to walk quickly through the wig salon ( ofcourse with his eyes closed and his head turned away blah, blah ,blah…..)
To # 16 , Do the right thing. Let that wig salon know that until the salon is “male free” you do not feel comfortable patronizing them.
who are we fooling? its only a matter of time till the guy in the front who ONLY takes the money winds up doing some work in the back of the store where he doesn’t belong ( refer to number 16)
I know 2 women from two different cities who used male exercise trainers….who are no longer married to their husbands. It isn’t a matter of “sensitivity” it’s a matter of Halacha
To not originally.
How about 1987? Because I remember those days too.
I think it’s obvious that every person should ask their rov for their own guidance and if your a woman not comfortable in a certain store there’s plenty of competition these days. And if you tell them why you don’t want to shop there that’s even a bigger statement. And trust me as a business man I can assure you if even only 2 customers tell me that they’re not comfortable with something I’m changing it immediately. We don’t need kol koreis or banning it or anything. We need women to speak up. That’s all.
@Big shtink, you’ve got it all worked out don’t you?! And when it doesn’t work out so well, you’ve got that old cop out – mind your own business!!! Guilty conscience perhaps?
Not always is it that simple, everyone has their own situation and before you jump to conclusion you should know the whole story, for example I am a divorced father and I do all the shopping for my girls , I walk into all the girls stores because there is no other option for me. So next time you see a guy in a woman store think twice maybe there is a valid reason he is there.
Did anything think that maybe they advertised and advertised and couldnt get a women to work there at those hours??? Men dont have to be out of there at 1:59 and 59 seconds. Men can stay late yom tov time and men dont take off everytime one kid sniffles twice in the morning. Dear all the frumme commentators BE DON LIKAF ZECHUS! the store owner have men workers for a reason!
@jasson so I guess that means your buying sheitels for your daughters???
@confounded, you missed my point, what I meant was that u can’t jump to conclusion before you know the full story, I get all kind of looks when I walk into a girls shop because ppl don’t know how to be Dan likaf zchus
Below is a gevaldike shiur from my Rosh Yeshiva:
The oilam knows mistama about this new trend that the oilam hasheker ppl go on vacation for mid winter and they go to a makom that’s shakua in gashmiyus a makom that even a mentch that’s not a Ben Torah shouldn’t go it’s mamush anyone that’s a mentch can’t go when a baal habus in shull tells me he’s going I ask him if there isn’t enough prast’a mkomos in the shtut fu’n Torah Lkwd that he had to go to a place that was made for ppl that aren’t ppl, ppl that are close to behaimos they walk around without their underclothes and then these ppl that are yiden they have shechina in their homes and they run from their homes and leave behind the shchinah and are shakua themselves in oilam hazeh like Hollywood alts comes from the goyim they’re go on a vacation from yideshkeit if their zaides in shmayim would see they would’ve rather died in the holocaust this is a holocaust of Torah that yeshivalyte just sell their kudusha for a beach that zo’inos spread themselves out waiting to be machtie us it’s all the yetzer hatov probably bec after this vacation I’ll mamesh be able to learn with such hasmada when I was in yeshiva my rosh hayeshivah asked me about a chaver from another yeshiva for a shidduch for his niece and he asked me if this bouchur’s parents go to Florida or other mekomos haznuss (i’m using shtarke leshonos not bec I’m a kana’ie but so the oilam should see that these are dvarim hayotzei mi’n ha’lev) and my rosh hayeshivah heard that his parents took him as a child and he nixed the shidduch and today he is not so choshev he’s not even in chinuch you see he could’ve been the Rosh Hayeshivas ei’dim!!
I think enough was said I hope the oilam understands on their own and will sip asking their parents to call me why can’t their tzadik just take a week of to go with them just one week! R”L the bouchrim should go home and tell your parents that your staying home if they want they can go without you and I’m mavtiach you that they won’t have any issues they will be proud.You can tell them to take the money and but you seforim it’s a mitzvah just like writing a sefer Torah and I’m one day the oilam well shteig ois and become talmidei chachomim without all the shmutz hatzloch rabba if anyone isn’t clear about anything I said the shouldn’t be embarrassed to approach me privately
Are you serious? That sounds ridiculous. My Rosh Yeshiva said if you need to get away, you should go to Eretz Yisroel.
Why can’t you say your point without getting worked up?