To whom this may concern: I read an article on the Scoop last week about a Tznius issue in Lakewood, and I gave it some thought. (By the way, those points were spot on.)
What came to mind, was that all Frum-owned clothing stores, at least in Lakewood, should require a Hechsher.
Food, we all know, needs a Hechsher because the Torah set forth strict guidelines as to what we may and may not eat. On the same token, we have a Shulchan Aruch which clearly dictates the basic Halachos of Tznius we need to adhere to. So why don’t we similarly need a Hechsher? Is there a difference between eating Treif and wearing inappropriate clothing (which not only affects ones self, but the people around them as well)?
I think if Rabbonim in Lakewood announced that a Hechsher was needed for each clothing store, we would be seeing a strong improvement in the Ruchniyus in the town.
Just a thought.
A regular Lakewood guy.
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Would they see an improvement? The women who are dressing completely not tzniusdik will continue by buying clothing in the goyish stores or altering these. The ones who are borderline now will continue to be. They’ll buy the top one size smaller they’ll shorten the skirt Judy a little more. They def shouldn’t sell clothing that can’t possibly cover the knee (which I’ve only seen in children’s stores) but a hechser?? I’m sorry if I think this is overboard silly and something that wouldn’t even work!
How would that help. a skirt may be tznius on a short person but for a tall person it will be above the knee. a top may be 100% tznuis but if it is too tight on the wearer it is not tznius.
Live and let live!
Most of the issues we have today are because everybody is busy with how they can fix the world and are busy looking at whats wrong with next person and society, from kids to clothing, houses, cars, shuls…..Let each person take care of themselves, not justifying doing things against halacha, but you definitely wont change ppl this way and only make ppl worse.
It might not really work. It’s up to each individual to adhere to tzniut properly. Hechsherim can control blanket rules but not something that’s too tight or short. Everyone comes in different shapes and sizes. What looks benign on one woman can look provocative on another.
Just a thought. A food establishment needs a hechsher so that the consumer can know that the ingredients in said item are all kosher to eat. Ppl can make their own decisions on what level of tznius they want to keep and the only ppl that get hurt with your idea is the store owners.
Don’t think it would work. One item can be tzniusidg for one lady and totally wrong for another one. A lot has to do with sizing and length.
I can list you another 10 examples or things that can be problematic…or not!
Like many ideas, this sounds good in theory, but would not be very practical. The writer has good intentions and is correct that something should very well be done, but a hechsher would have a few difficulties which may very well be insurmountable.
one can not certify an article of clothing as the length for instance would be “kosher” on one person but not on another, people are built differently and they also wear clothing differently. Also, If a top is sleeveless, it can still be worn with a shell. In addition, what if something is too conforming? Giving a hechsher on clothing without matching it to the wearer is difficult to say the least. Now, if you say a hechsher entails someone being in the store and measuring and checking every single patron as they try things on, that is intrusive and impractical.
As an aside, in general a hechsher on food is given to protect the consumer from unscrupulous shop owners as a lot of money is involved, far and few between though they may be. However, this would be a statement that shop owners as well as patrons need to be told what’s right, and that is not a good idea…
Great idea. Love it. Pay me 750 bucks a month I’ll have a Rav come by once a month to do an inspection.
The mehadrin Hechsher will have a two inspections a month for only 1000.00 a month.
Also all the ads will have to be through “kosher” publications. We can charge publications 500 bucks a month as well to be certified kosher.
Overhead is really low and we can solve the tznius crisis while making a great parnassah!
At a certain point you have to acknowledge that each person has their own choice. You can’t start having a hechsher on every last thing – maybe we should have a hechsher on which neighborhood one can live in or which car you can drive.
You may not like other people’s choices but the only person who can make a change is themselves.
I have never seen a non-tznuisdik frum lady in Lakewood. Seriously.
Come to Manhattan and I will show you what non-tznius is. In my view, every lady in Lakewood is a tzadeikis because each (on their own level) is trying to dress differently than how the world at large dresses.
With that out of the way, lets turn to something else. Maybe we should start working even more on lashon hara which has more sins in it than tznius. I may be mistaken but I don’t believe there has even been an asifah with the participation of many rabbunim in town on lashon hara. (I do believe there have been numerous on tznius though.)
Or we can work on sheifchas damim. No, not the literal shefichas damim…the spiritual one. The one where we slaughter kids emotionally and mentally by denying them entrance to schools because we don’t like what their parents do. The one where Reb Ahron Leib Shteinman says publicly on a youtube video that such conduct stems from “Gaava, Gaava Gaava.”
And if you have a one track mind and need to talk only about modesty, then let’s talk about modest living (cars, houses, etc) because I think Lakewood has less modest living among its general working population (and a certain minority of its yungerleit) than any other frum community in the USA.
Should websites require hechsherim?
I love love love comment number 10.
@ari, you can hire me for a mere $500/month per store, I’ll be the mashgiach
Achrayus. The attitude by some is to NOT take achrayus. There are so many improvements can be made in every area. But they all involve taking the initiative and achrayus yourself and not yenem – whether it’s kashrus, Chinuch, tznius and more. I’ll tell you a funny story to demonstrate:
Once in a Jewish supermarket I noticed bread without any label. I asked the Jewish manager if the bread is Kosher. He looked at me in disbelief, “Of course it’s Kosher!”
So I tell him, “Ok, that means that you are taking responsibility that it’s Kosher?”
He backed off laughing, “No, no, no! Not me! But I think there is a Rabbi who is responsible.”
“Is there a certificate hanging somewhere from the Rabbi?”
“No.”
“Listen”, I tell him. “I don’t know the Rabbi. But I know you and you seem like a trustworthy fellow. If you take achrayus then I will eat it.”
But the fellow did not want to take achrayus!
Great idea. If you want to implement this speak directly to Gedolim who can assist in this matter. The Lakewood Scoop and the commentors are not necessarily the people who will help.
@frumyid yes yes yes to everything you said. Modesty is much much more than just skirt lengths.
Stupid idea. The same skirt that is tzniut for one is not for the other. Also hechsher is on the establishment, for us to know that we are being served kosher. Buying clothing is a choice for each individual to make.
I think a grocery store should require a hechsher also. After all one of my kids may chas veshalom see a candy that I think is too gashmiyus for them
I dont know how anypne can say anything negative avout the wobderful, frum, tzniyusdigeh women of Lakewood. Lets face it: Nothing screams H-shem Melech more than a woman, in 90 degree heat, with classic 200% Lkwd humidity, fully dressed, wearing a shaitel. Its in their z’chus the whole world is standing. And we all know it.
Great idea!
The hechsher should also have a yoshon certification available for those stores that sell clothing from last season.
All good comments. At the end of the day, though… as nice as it would be for someone to do that on their own for their own store and for people to shop there… it would increase expense significantly. You can fully abide by tzniyus even in non-jewish stores when appropiate. You may be asking someone who can only afford $100 for a wardrobe to instead limit to a hechsher store and pay $750.
Sorry this is sillest thing I have heard.
Sounds perfect for Purim.
Yeshivos should have a hechsher testifying that they follow their designated Gadol in all major decisions so we don’t have to worry about another Malky Klein situation
1- I love #10’s remarks
2- The definition of insanity is “doing the same thing…” you fill in the blank.
I really do want the tzniyus situation to be maintained and constantly improved. However, this is the same “shot gun” approach. It never worked before and will not now. Change has to come from within and those around you should be a help not hindrance. I’m losing hope because Ir hatorah seems to be impotent in regard to tzniyus because we cannot address the issues properly. Lets just put up more walls until Hashem sends someone to break them down for the umpteenth time…when will we get the message!
3) Lev Tahor does not have any tzniyus problems.
ok. so the prices go up and the poor woman who desperately wants a tznius store with a hechsher now has more of a nisayon to not shop there…
I agree with the idea of schools having a hechsher. Life altering decisions.
Regarding stores, I will say that the fact there are men working in certain (female)stores, is unacceptable
Every store owner needs to have a kesher with a rebitzin who will come around and give chizuk in this area.
Oh goodness, is Lakewood going to become a theocracy? People get to choose, not everyone will agree to your standards. Live and let live.
@y Bb – #19, I agree 100%. Well said.
Oh come on. A hechsher for a clothing store. So If I come in and want to buy a skirt for a daughter for instance one of my daughters is 6 feet tall and the other one is only say 5.3 so the store owner will have to ask me for what daughter am i buying the skirt or maybe just for myself and i am say 5 feet tall, And what happens if for instance a none Jewish woman comes in to buy some clothing so you want sell it to her? Everything including hechshers for business has to stop at some point, I can see a store that sells kosher poultry or food or restaurant its a different story, I wonder who wrote this story a woman or a man, And if its a man and he has a wife did he ask her opinion ? Be well all of Lakewood. And this should be our only problem Amein,
Amein.
I think a rebbetzin standing guard at the exit and inspecting people’s purchases sounds good. she can say Yes you can wear this or NO you cannot. The oilam will love it!
Real problem. Stupid idea. Rather, dumbest idea in the world. Hechsher on what? The clothing isn’t the problem, it’s how it’s worn. Sounds like gun control.
31 AND 32 IS VERY CUTE AND TRUE. ITS GOOD TO HAVE A LAUGH EVERY NOW AND THAN ITS GOOD FOR YOUR HEALTH,
Number 10 has it in the bag