Last week, a heated debate took place on TLS, discussing whether schools or parents should be responsible for the decisions of where children can or cannot go on midwinter break.
Take the poll below:
Should the decision where children can or cannot go for mid-winter break be decided by the schools or the parents?
— The Lakewood Scoop (@LakewoodScoop) January 29, 2023
Of course the parents!
But Yeshivas also have to take into account that there are a minority, though not insignificant, amount of parents who would destroy their childrens ruchniyus if left to their devices.
Therefore Yeshivas must make general rules about what is off-limits.
It’s a ridiculous question. Everybody agrees that of course parents should decide but everybody also agrees that parents have no right to send their kids to schools that have rules against it. So parents can decide by sending their kids to schools who allow it . It’s a free country both for parents and private schools. Parents can decide where to send their kids and schools can make rules. What parents can not do is send their kids to a school and then not follow the rules.
Well said. If you don’t like the rules, go to a more lenient school. A big pet peeve of mine is when parents blatantly break school rules (phones, dress codes etc) and then cry wolf. Lots of schools give handbooklets at the start of the year, with expectations for the chinuch of that school. Take it or leave it.
As if people in Lakewood can decide which schools to send their kids to nowadays…
Parents, in many cases, don’t have a choice of where to send their kids to school here in Lakewood (Monsey too). So to say send your kids where you fit is not a fair comment.
Then I have yet to meet a school and family agree on EVERY issue…..there just cannot be a blanket statement.
The irony of a poll that is only accessible via Twitter – it’s almost as bad as if TLS would host a Twitter poll asking if using Twitter should be allowed by schools…
It’s the demographic who uses Twitter that will usually side with the “schools have no right to tell me what to do with my kids” mentality, while it’s the more yeshivish-minded parents who understand the importance of their behavioral tendencies and how it affects their child’s chinuch.
Hence the echo chamber.
@SmackTalk. Yes, because contarary to pop culture, Yiddishkeit doesnt believe in “a diversity of ideas” being presented and chosen by whomever.
Did it work well for the united states? Where now most young college kids identify as socialist?
Actually there are 12 Shevatim precisely because we have a diversity of ideas and multiple ones can be right. Maybe not right for you, but right in the eyes of HKBH. Which is why blanket statements and rules don’t work and why parents take things into their own hands (where it belongs).
I agree. Have no Twitter. Would have voted for the schools. We don’t want our kids in an environment of gashmiyus and high standards, we send our kids to schools, thus we would expect the w
School to enforce those standards. Please don’t send to this schools if you don’t want to listen to their rules
As a parent with kids in the system for quite a few years this has spiraled out of control from simple snow tubing to insane insane getaways flying south to florida panama ,etc etc this is a man made problem that has pinned parents vs children . The insane pressure that parents must answer to for those who cant afford it for those who have mesivta boys and some who elementary schools dont have have mid winter
If a child needs a day off give it !! if a rebbe/morah needs personal days give it
Or better yet each school can give a random friday off eliminating the coordinated time of ” mid winter”
We are quick to ban devices and other venues yet this was man made by the schools themselves lets see them stand up and say no its not 30 years ago our generation has pushed this beyond the norm
I agree in theory except random days off doesn’t exactly work for parents who work. Hard enough when coordinated…
If the parents prioritize vacation over school, they should no have any taanos against schools that don’t take their children in. If it’s a free country, then parents are free to decide what to do with kids. And so are schools. So don’t complain and cry when its too late and your kids have been rejected.
Agree with Mike.
In a perfect world, parents decide. The parents are not only not perfect, they are stupider and stupider each year. Hence, we need an institution to make what should be simple decisions for the parents.
And I can’t vote either because of the Twitter thing.
Vaccinations, vacations, … I’m seeing a trend of who is in control.
We applaud school control when it benefits us and abhor it when it doesn’t.
Why do you think schools make the rules? Because certain midwinter breaks are detrimental to the school and its community and, as they represent that, they must make rules. In a perfect world the school would just give the info to parents and the parents wouldn’t do these things on their own. But some people don’t give two hoots how it affects their sons chinuch and the chinuch of their friends. They don’t care if they are placing unsure stress on parents to do things that they disagree with and/or can’t afford. So, yes, they have to make rules. People who don’t follow them are selfish and are sending a terrible message to their children.
Screw the whole mid winter vacation. If the schools don’t want the kids going away, don’t give time off….
Time off from school is very important for the teachers and students alike! But the point is to give a rest and change of pace. It’s not too create a rat race who can have the most exciting trip and outdo the others. What’s wrong with a day or two of relaxation with no specific place you have to at a definite time? Sleep in a little, daven at a leisurely pace, enjoy a gourmet breakfast and do some fun crafts?
Huh? Let the teachers have a break. We call the replacements substitutes. If the teachers need a week off, I’m all for it, let them use their PTO. If they don’t have PTO, let the schools provide PTO.
If a parent feels a child needs some TLC, NP, keep them home, since when do you need every last thing in your life dictated to you? If you feel your kid needs to go to FL, NP take them next week….
Correct. Does the grocer get to go away for the week?
TLS NEXT POLE.. Should lakewood Private schools abolish “mid winter vacation” aka hell week for parents?.
How many parents have to take off work and spend unnecessarily so their children should “fit in”?
enough already! we need moshiach now!
The schools should stop giving mid-winter vacations period
The kids don’t need it – they just had Chanuka vacation
The teachers need it? Fine. Let them alternate between themselves when to take off but let their classes continue
Parents can’t afford neither the time nor the expense of these “vacations “. Furthermore Mothers are working in order to help pay their tuitions. They can’t take off the days from work. Have Rachmonus on our parents
New pole- should Lakewood private schools abolish “mid winter vacation” aka Hell week for some parents.
As a parent of sons in one of the boys schools that do not give off, I think a day or two for downtime is very necessary! I offered my kids to stay home for a day, but they don’t want to miss on learning, which h will effect the rest of the week catching up. All they want is a day when school is closed, so they can wake up a little later and breathe!!
A parent considers his/her own values and preferences. A school sees a somewhat larger picture, of how one child’s vacation affects the dynamics of the rest of the class. They see how a few families making a choice to give their kids a great time raises standards in a problematic way for the rest of the class, school or society. It’s often totally fine from the parent’s perspective – there are a lot of legitimate reasons and considerations to go on an ‘extravagant’ vacation. But we don’t live in a vacuum -we are responsible for each other, and the school might see the bigger results in a way that parents can’t. So let’s take responsibility for the affect of our behavior on others, and take the schools’ guidance seriously.
let’s take a poll to see who learned English and who didn’t.
poll vs. pole then vs. than your vs. you’re.
Parents “CAN’T afford NEITHER” is a double negative.
Maybe the winter vacation should be used for “winter school” and dedicated to teaching our native tongue!
Perchance you should pontificate pointless perplexing ponderings elsewhere.
Why does some ones lack of grammar compel you to write a vindictive, “better-than-though” comment?
Kinda nasty.
I always feel like doing what you just did, to correct all the horrible grammar and spelling mistakes. But the truth is that no one cares about those things any more. They have no idea what we’re talking about and they couldn’t care less.
A fictitious child allegedly asked me to post the following comment for him, anonymously:
“As one of the many children who goes to school, and who is counted among those who are given a mid winter break, I must say that I am at a loss for words that TLS did not offer a 3rd choice in its poll question that would allow us children to decide where we can, or can’t go for mid winter break. I mean, give me a break, just because I am a child, does that mean I am not human, and I am not worthy of making such decisions?!
“Hence, due to this deliberate oversight, I am not responding to the poll!
“I have also texted all my friends – the children of the world – and asked them to boycott the poll.
“Incidentally, one child, a dear friend of mine, apologized to me, and texted me that he already responded to the poll. But he told me he will make up for his egregious mistake by boycotting the next TLS poll when it comes out.
“However, he told me that he might be in Florida enjoying his mid winter break when the next poll comes out, and since he has no access to the internet when he’s vacationing, he won’t know when the next TLS poll comes out, hence he won’t be able to boycott it, unless I text him and inform him when the next poll comes out, and he makes me a shaliach to boycott the poll on his behalf by not responding to the poll on his behalf.
” ‘I don’t know’, I told my friend, ‘it seems a bit too complicated for me. We’ll see’.”
A fictitious child allegedly asked me to post the following comment for him anonymously:
“As one of the many children who goes to school, and who is counted among those who are given a mid winter break, I must say that I am at a loss for words that TLS did not offer a 3rd choice in its poll question that would allow us children to decide where we can, or can’t go for mid winter break. I mean, give me a break, just because I am a child, does that mean I am not human, and I am not worthy of making such decisions?!
“Hence, due to this deliberate oversight, I am not responding to the poll!
“I have also texted all my friends – the children of the world – and asked them to boycott the poll.
“Incidentally, one child, a dear friend of mine, apologized to me, and texted me that he already responded to the poll. But he told me he will make up for his egregious mistake by boycotting the next TLS poll when it comes out.
“However, he told me that he might be in Florida enjoying his mid winter break when the next poll comes out, and since he has no access to the internet when he’s vacationing, he won’t know when the next TLS poll comes out, hence he won’t be able to boycott it, unless I text him and inform him when the next poll comes out, and he makes me a shaliach to boycott the poll on his behalf by not responding to the poll on his behalf.
” ‘I don’t know’, I told my friend, ‘it seems a bit too complicated for me. We’ll see’,..”
This topic is taking too much conversation and importance when it’s not some thing even worth discussing. Most kids don’t lose out anything by a mid winter trip with their family. It’s too short of a time. It’s not a thing. We have shirt vacation keep it this way and accommodate the families so they can make whatever choices they want.
you are making a good point, but if the parents would take them out whenever they wanted, we would be back to square 1. Every parent would have the social pressure to take their kids to expensive places. In addition, it is highly disruptive to school to have different kids missing every day. This MidWinter Break, problematic as it is, is the best solution until you come up with one. (your previous idea doesn’t count).
not sure what a vacation mid winter from Yeshiva is…
i am waiting for the explanation from R’s Feinstein ,Kamenetsky,Kotler…etc.
as a student at the Mir in brooklyn as a teenager i
believe i missed those days off..i do wonder why..
Big time pressure and expense especially for big family’s. The best situation should be every parent knows when their child needs a break use your intuition pick up your kid on a regular school day to give him a break (take him fishing snow tubing and have fun )mid winter break is detrimental to all.