Last night, Rabbonim and Askonim gathered to address wedding standards in Lakewood.
At the gathering – which took place at the new Ateres Esther and Ateres Blima wedding hall building on Oak Street – the topic of extravagant weddings was discussed. The goal was how to bring down the costs of weddings – particularly by lowering the standards in Lakewood beyond “Takanah” weddings.
In fact, the goal of the two newly-built Chasunah Initiative halls in Lakewood was just that – to lower the overall cost and standards of weddings.
As reported earlier, the new halls will be hiring chefs, photographers, singers and musicians, and will charge only $13,000 for the entire package, which can translate into savings of thousands of dollars for the average family.
The first weddings at the new halls are scheduled for June.
What kind of ideas can YOU suggest to lower wedding standards?
Why don’t they start with figuring out how to get the children in school. Lakewood has over 50 girls still not enrolled in a school for this coming year.
Ty for making this point! My daughter still not in school!!!
not always because of shortage. possibly due to strict preferences
Why not enroll them in public school?
Get rid of the gowns. People spend crazy amounts of time and money on them. Let the mothers wear gowns, siblings wear nice shabbos outfits. Even if those get more expensive, you’re still left with them after the wedding and can wear them again.
Can’t agree with you more If we cut out gowns, expensive makeup professionally done for all siblings, limiting that to Kalla and the two mothers you save time and money. Once we look carefully we can cut out a lot of things that are being done out of pair pressure. Hopefully the rabbonim and asksonim will come up with a well thought out feasible plan. They will be benched by all those that they saved their dignity by not being forced into debt for extra things. These extras take a huge toll on the people that can manage monthly and even yom tov but these extras are over the top
Gowns are ugly. But people wear them due to peer pressure.
Makeup has value, even if some people don’t care.
Baal-Peer
I believe support costs more than the weddings.
…..so maybe the Baal habattim and askanim should stop supporting their eidems and that will tricks down to the klall….. #smoemoichemRempty
The type of people they want to lower the standards of weddings, they’re not even allowing to make weddings in these halls. It’s for the people that were already doing it. Waste of time
If someone wants to spend a lot of money on a wedding, that’s their prerogative. Why do we have to come up with ways to reduce extravagant weddings? Let people do what they want with their money. and if you’re worried about people who feel like they need to keep up, those people need to grow up.
There is a tremendous amount of peer pressure to the acceptable standard. If there is a new standard that is commonly excepted people will definitely abide by it. 70 percent of Lakewood is definitely not wanting lavish weddings. They go in to debt while not having a way how to pay back. These are long overdue.
The majority making the lavish weddings aren’t the most wealthy people. They are just people who feel anned to rub shoulders like millionaires, minus the actual millions. Yes, there are some uber wealthy that make lavish simchos, but they aren’t the majority of those making the lavish simchos.
Let the askonim and givirim lower their standards for weddings and it will trickle down to everyone else. The hall is allowing 250 people and 48 kids. If you paid for that amount of people in other halls it would also cost less. If you served the entire meal before the dancing it’s also a savings of a couple of grand. So they’re not necessarily lowering the standard just figuring out how to squeeze and therefore t the cost is lower!!! Some people can’t do this as the families are bh kah very large.
You’re numbers are wrong. It’s 250 people. It’s a sheker gamur. I’m making a wedding there and just immediate family is more then that.
Sheker gamur
What is?
Not trying to control what people do would go a long way. Convince 50 notably wealthy families to do takana weddings for thr sake of the example to the klal and the problem will be solved.
The hall is owned by the Schron family. Have you ever been to a Schron family wedding? Did you verify what portion was paid for by the Schron side, what by the other side? Their simchos are more tame then majority of other lavish weddings, and they have more funds available then some of the other lavish spenders.
That sure sounds like trying to control what wealthy people do.
Convincing middle class folks to not drown in debt doesnt sound like control.
In general, I don’t think that wealthy people need to tone down their weddings. If they can afford it, they are providing a beautiful night out for their guests. It’s wonderful to beautify a simcha within your means. It also provides parnassa for many frum vendors.
If there’s a problem, it’s with the people who can’t afford things yet don’t know how to say no to themselves.
Such a healthy answer. Unfortunately the problem stems from parents trying to please their children or show them they can have a grand wedding like others. Then everyone suffers.
The only suggestion is to stop looking at other people. Some people can make bigger weddings if they are into these stuff and it doesn’t have to be a pressure on others.
When a community has a problem that they feel like they need to “keep up with the Jones’s”, you don’t need to suppress the Jones’s and tell them how to live their lives. You need to teach the community that everyone should be happy with what they have and stop comparing yourself to others for validation.
The problem is that this starts from the cradle and is only reinforced by the schools.
Ypu can only get into school A if you do X, Y, and Z, and dress in J, F, and K way. Peer pressure and comparison is the only way Lakewood knows hoe to function.
If anyone does differently they are shunned, kicked out of school, and made a laughing stock of.
When the Rosh Yeshiva and their children make a wedding way more than 250 are invited. Some people have large families BH and many friendships.
maybe we should start wearing baseball caps that would save a lot of money !
I agree we should wear the Cofetz Chaim hat. Except Rabonim. No need for a $300 hat. This could be a great start. If everyone does it, it will be the new norm.
If you can somehow dig up a hat belonging to the chafetz chaim it would go for a lot more than $300
Than those hats will be $300
Costs go by demand
and by supply. if a hat is easier/cheaper to make then they can make more of them and that is what keeps costs down.
what’s the different
If everyone in that room agrees to make a TAKUNA wedding, it will trickle down to everyone, and the problem will be solved!!!
I wish we could all start wearing the חפץ חיים hat. It would save a family a tremendous amount of money!!!
I believe in BELZ, they do something like that.
Let’s not forget Rabbi Greenwald from Greenwald caterers who was serving the t
own for over 30 years in Bais Faiga with weddings that are similar numbers without free buildings and fundraising events its very nice the bala batim have these takanas maybe they should follow them so there is no pressure to be like them and we won’t be in a rat race to begin with
Spot on
I know a kallah and her family, fathers a rebbi, don’t have much money. They are not utilizing the new hall it’s beneath them. They rather borrow and go into hock. Makes no sense!
There’s the problem.
The previous Bobover Rebbe R’Shlome ztza”l always used to scream not to make big weddings; in Boro Park now there are many new Takana Halls, they’re not as large as the Lakewood Halls but most are very beautiful and their food is as delicious same as the Lakewood Halls, Bobov alone recently opened a few new takana halls.
Those whom make those 6 digit Ritzy Weddings less than 30% are multi millionaires whom it would not make a dent in them ; 70% just make them to show off to their friends, of which they don’t even invite great uncles, 2nd cousins etc. just their friends get invited; to make the wedding they Re-mortgage their homes and scrape every dollar they can find, and after the wedding they will not learn much Torah thus struggle financially for many years to pay off everything. I have nephews and niece’s like that which I always gave and loaned them money they never invite my kids to their show off weddings or even me their uncle to their Ritzy Oif Ruefs and Shabbos Sheva brachos just all their friends go.
True
Looking back, more often than not it was my very wealthy friends that made small backyard weddings. I guess they didn’t feel the need to show off or “Keep up with the Rosenbergs”
Why do we need 5 different types of tequila, vodka, bourbon, whiskey, 15 types of whiskey, 10 different liquors and bottles of wine. Young teen agers are doing lots of drinking.
How can a
שיכור
be
משמח חתן וכלה
???
The baalei Simcha are not the ones bringing all that. It is the guests who get shikkur who bring it.
Sometimes this way, sometimes that way.
At this point, with affordable takana halls, the actual wedding is the manageable part of the simcha. Somehow a person can manage that.
A vort (min 4000)
Gifts for kallah (7000)
Shabbos Sheva b (min 6000)basic
Shaitels ( min 2@2000 each )
That doesn’t even count household items and furniture
And a car…
And support for the couple. Not sure what is expected these days (but rent on a basement apartment is about 2000 per month )
Hate to say it, but your numbers are at least 5-7 years out of date. Take them and add 30-50%. Especially the shaitels. And chassidim spend that much on the gifts even before the couple is engaged…
A little off on Chasidim. They have the chasunah mall where they get everything. All based on a preagreed upon packge amount. Plus they do everything 50/50.
But they buy much more, with their wedding malls.
Huge dining room sets and bedroom sets.
It depends on the agreed upon package. The packages come in many sizes.
There are ways to make majority for less. A vort doesn’t have to be a lavish mini wedding with 20 hot dishes. Make it in your house, put out some cake and fruit. Voila. Same with Shabbos Hseva berachos. Why does one need to invite all the uncles, aunts and second cousins for Shabbos? Stich to grand parents of the choson and kallah, their siblings and their kids. Done. Move to brooklyn. Rent might be slightly more, but no need for a car. You won’t need 2 cars after 2 years of marriage. Plenty of options for savings.
I agree 100% . The wedding night is the cheap part. I am talking from experienced!
You’re the problem. Why didn’t you make the Vort in your dining room, with some cake and fruit. Because you chose to hire a caterer and make it in a hall, it’s my problem?
Pay for your plate. If you won’t come because of that, I probably don’t care too much if you come.
We have to learn how to say no to ourselves and our kids. If something is extra. Start now.
Say. No you may not have that pair of shoes you already have a pair.
Or a 600.00 winter jacket. I don’t care if everyone in your class has one. You can use the same backpack for a few years.
Oh you want to go to seminary? Well if it’s important to you you will need to cover x amount of it.
You want a college degree? Great. You will be working and paying for it yourself while I save up for your wedding.
And once you have that great job and can support yourself and your husband I will not need to support you. Yes I will always try to be helpful when I can. But getting married means being a Grownup and taking care your own expenses
Easier said than done. I know. But it will be a great gift your kids will benefit from their whole lives. Expecting handouts is not a healthy way to raise them.
It’s NOT just the night of the wedding that’s out of control. a extra Guitar or Sax is no big money.
it’s all the items we have to buy for the couple and the apartment that’s bringing up the amount to crazy heart attacks and anxiety.
think Shaitel or Shtreimel. or a Car.
LISTEN ON TORAHANYTIME
TO SHIUR CALLED =RADICAL ACROSS THE BOARD
OR CALL 718 298 2077
9295106#
Makeup and hair is over the top, actually had raising
Agreed focus on getting bochurim in mesivta and girls into high school before this! Hashem is in way more pain when people reject his kids than when ppl make fancy weddings!
The support is a much bigger issue. When I told a shadchan that I could offer $1500 a month for 5 years, he checked with the big lakewood shadchonim and they all said that was too low. $100000 was too low to get a shidduch. And that’s after the bare bones vort, wedding, Sheva Brachos which cost $50000 and $8000 to set up the apartment. Not enough?! This needs to stop.
Of course it’s not enough. most guys are barely learning when they enter shidduchim, why should they wait that long to milk you for 100k!
I have an idea. Let’s actually REALLY enforce the Takanos made a few months ago about boys and girls dating ages and refuse to be mesader kedushin if they are violated. This way everyone can actually get to the stage of getting married.
It’s assur to make a takana when a person is allowed to get marrired. If anything we should be pushing the guys to start much earlier. According to many Poskim, delaying getting married is intentionaly defying therequirement to be Oisek in Pirya v’ribya.
Get rid of the vort. It’s beautiful but such a waste of money and time. Take the money and give it to the couple instead.
The push needs to be for people who can to take a step back and not do, just because they can. Asking for volunteers (and promising brachos etc) from wealthy families, and their children- to have a reasonably sized apartment after marriage, a car that’s a good few years old, gowns from a gemach, local Shana rishona vacations instead of a plane destination- and really pass around the normalcy of all of that. That is what has the power to change the direction here. And given the right framing, I think people would sign onto this
How about abolishing the expensive shtremelich. It costs me over 10k for just Shtremels when I married off my son its insane. I am wondering why we are not making weddings in shulls with 30 poeple like a kidush?. Why is it required according to the torah to Have a lavish seudah in a hall for a wedding am I missing something?. People can barely afford the Taknah wedding halls so why not abolish the whole Hall idea for weddings, Bar Miyzvahs etc??. How about we abolish the whole Jewlery Idea and just buy Jewelry when there is extra Money in your account.
Am I missing something. Its simple math if a majority of us are barely surviving financially why dodnt we abolish all these unnecessary items instead of making them more affordable???
By covid time the did in NYC weddings in warehouses automatically it took away MATZAV מאורע from the night all accessories crushed down.
Same in bnie brak there’s a building with like 7-8 halls, it’s like a not a big deal..
Wedding night isn’t all where the issue is but it’s stupid for 4 hours only and all GONE we flush that money
The guidelines that are being said here are for these halls.They allow the availability to have a nice wedding for much cheaper. They are not intended to force or coherce anyone. You want a fancy wedding go ahead. The average guy is more than happy to go book and go along with this type of venu.If It doesn’t work for you u can go to a upscale place. With all the negative comments posted it’s hard to believe they have made their own kids wedding. The more takana halls that open up,the more u can’t get a date. This is bieng embraced warmly bh! Kol hakavod to the Schron family!
Have u tried getting a date in that hall? it’s impossible for months! For some reason there’s more people that want these type of weddings then there is availability.that’s why they keep him making more and
more affordable halls. With all the negativity and all the horrible things written here it doesn’t change the facts! Many people are more than happy to use these type of halls! We can only help those wanting to get helped.
And these 2 halls only opened up for bookings after pesach.
At least they are offering something concrete like these new cheaper halls. How Much cheaper will these be then the current existing low budget wedding halls in lakewood ?
Still Much better then the waste of time event in Monsey a few weeks ago where all they did was tell them that all woman, including the two mothers, should where a shaboss dress to the wedding instead of a gown.
Even though everyone knows that the actual wedding event itself is from the cheaper parts of the overall costs.
People have to stop trying to keep up with the “Rosenbergs” Stop worrying about what others will think. I brought my family up like that and we don’t try to do what everyone else does. Do what fits your budget. You true friends won’t look down on you and if people do look down on you, they’re not really nice people.
As a person with limited means, I do enjoy getting invited to lavish affairs, even though I wouldn’t make one myself. People should just do what they can afford and just stop being so competitive.
Lets just cut out everything theres no reason a chasunna has to be anything more than a bar mitzva $2,500 from each side is more than enough and then when thats successful lets see how we can cut it even more
I like the way men are cutting the woman’s expenses for yenem it’s easier to cut we can only talk about things that we’re ready to give up or cut!
The wigs should definitely go!
Thousands spent on wearing some one else’s hair is ridiculous and pritzus anyways.
And now according to major rosh yeshivas like rav Wachtfogel shlita the human hair wigs are tikrovas Avoda zora.
So an item that is pritzus and Avoda zora that costs thousands of dollars should be the first to go.
Honestly it would probably be better for the married women to just wear their own hair- it’s usually more modest (no one has hair like the wigs of today) and it’s not Avoda zora (most human hair today is coming from Indian temples- just check online).
And there is “gasp” always the option of wearing tichels – could you imagine? For $20 a woman could look married, modest and unavailable to men. Wow!! And it was even the way our imahos covered their hair and the way Jewish women did so for thousands of years!
Anyways when moshiach comes there will be no wigs (as rav Shlomo zalman Auerbach ztl stated the first thing moshiach will do is abolish the use of wigs), so we can get the ball rolling now by starting that process.
And then we’ll actually be as modest as the Muslims who only wear cloth head coverings and who wont touch wigs cuz they think it’s crazy to wear fake “hair” as a head covering (they actually forbid the wearing of wigs in their Koran and they write that all the troubles began for the children of Israel when their women started wearing wigs- look it up! It actually says that)
And wearing scarves will put the Indian temples out of business because they won’t have any more customers for their long beautiful hair that is offered by millions of Indian women who shave their heads for their idols.
And there will be no more frum sheitel websites featuring articles about all the different Hollywood actresses and celebrities that buy their sheitels for different movies and runway shows – making the biggest chillul Hashem ever.
There was a big wig runway show in ny recently with lots of immodest models and guess what? They were all wearing sheitels from one very popular frum sheitel company.
But hey, to have gorgeous perfect hair today at all times (especially those three day holidays) you gotta have a sheitel!
The actresses have figured out the secret to all the frum women having better “hair” than them so they have made wigs the biggest fashion craze today!
You only need a few thousand to have amazing hair all the time!
The sheitels today top the cake for the biggest scam and distortion of what was once a beautiful mitzvah.
How sad it is….
Shaitl being Avoda Zora is a 20+ year old issue. Plus, it’s only been said about hair from India.
I wish it would be the norm to do without a wig!! Even shautels that are not glamorous are nicer than the hair if a 50 yr old lady..it makes us look much younger and more beautiful than we are
Ok. What’s your point?
The az Sheila was readdressed this year when a new kol korei was published signed by some very prominent and chashuv rosh yeshivas and poskim from the US and EY including rav Wachtfogel shlita, rav Neuman shlita, rav Kotler shlita, rav Aaron Feldman shlita etc…stating that after much new research it is clear that the hair coming from the temples is completely tikrovas az and that most of the human hair in the world comes from Indian temples.
It’s still not a new issue.
There was a new kol korei that came out this year signed by some very prominent and chashuv rosh yeshivos and poskim including rav Wachtfogel shlita, rav Kotler shlita, rav Aaron Feldman shlita, rav Neuman shlita, rav Shternbuch shlita etc…
They wrote that after much new research it was found that most of the human hair has been found to come from Indian temples and this hair is Avoda zora….
It’s a very strong letter
All that was stated in the original discussion. It’s not new at all.
Its one thing to offer more cheap hall options for people to be able to save money , though I can’t imagine how much cheaper already then the current low budget halls in town, and for what type of wedding exactly.
But to pressure people to lower standards across the board like will backfire , as it always has. Including the defunct wedding takonos that they tried in 2002. Was a failure and embarrassment for all involved.
WHY AM I THE ONLY ONE NOT BORED? Seems like everyone chatting has too much time on their hands & either needs a job or a family. START FOCUSING INWARDS and not on what everyone’s doing wrong! Klal Yisrael is amazing- Were still Hanging on after over 2000 years- trying our best on our own levels raising torahdik families. The traffic in this town runs around yeshiva schedule! Every need has a gemach or a phone number- every crisis an organization. Anyone knocking others should go find themselves some fulfillment in their life.
The beginning of the funeral-related takkana of plain linen tachrichin was Rabbi Gamliel (Kesuvos 8B, bottom). The rich were buying fancy shrouds and the others (who could not afford) felt pressured to do the same. The Gemara there reports that people would flee the area to avoid this unaffordable cost. Baruch Hashem, we do not have fathers fleeing their families because they cannot afford a child’s wedding. Yasher koach to those askonim who are working to solve this problem.