1. A TRUE MIRACLE FROM HASHEM – and a very important lesson. Had this involved a car with the child bouncing around the back seat, there would have been a VERY different outcome. Sadly, I see that all the time as an EMT. If you are a parent, you have an obligation 100% of the time to properly secure your child in an age appropriate seat. This includes the woman I confronted last week with an infant on her lap and explained that she was “only going within the complex to the baby sitter” so no car seat was needed…

2. There seems to be more overturned vehicles in Lakewood than any other towns. Is there something wrong with the roads in Lakewood?

3. #1….

   You say it is a “A TRUE MIRACLE FROM HASHEM.”

   Then you say “Had this involved a car with the child bouncing around the back seat, there would have been a VERY different outcome.”

   HASHEM does not need a seat belt to make a miracle!! Without a seatbelt, it would have been an ever more obvious miracle!!

   Obviously, it was not time-up for this young girl!! The Malach HaMaves was not given the go-ahead to take back this girl’s neshamah. With or without a seatbelt!!

4. #1 makes a very important point- people forget how dangerous it is to drive a car because we do it everyday. Don’t think that driving only a short distance means nothing can happen. You should never put a child in a car without the proper safety seat and PROPERLY securing them into it. Thank goodness this father did.

5. have you heard of hishtaldus? You cant drive willy nilly and say if its my time, its my time

6. ANd I assume the father was wearing a seatbelt too. ANother important thing to remember!

7. #3 – you need to learn some basic hashkofah. According to you, one should just walk across rt. 9 without looking????
   You have a chiyuv min hatorah to wear a seatbelt! And if you wear a seatbelt but don’t strap in your kids, you are a poshea b’nafsham and show that your life is important but not the life of your kids.

8. To # 3 please go and get Rabbinicly supervised psychiatric help

9. While Hashem can and does miracles without our ‘help’, we must do our part and do the proper hishtadlus required. We are told to use safety car seats and should.

10. #2 Yes, its the peaple ON the roads that can’t drive

11. #3 you have your hashgafa mixed up!! It was definetely a nes that no one was injured, however a person CAN die before their “destined” time by doing immature and dangerous deeds! Hashem does not create endless miracles for a person just because they had the ABILITY to live longer. BE SAFE!!! ( I hope this is clear!)

12. Yes, a miracle and Thank G-d, the Lkwd Police, Hatz/EMT and Fire Co. for the quick response. And the brave and wise father that swerved to avoid an oncoming car, which forced him onto the curb, flipping the SUV up, backward and over. He instinctively was able to free himself and open the passenger door to reach down and pullout the car seat with daughter stunned, but secure!
    As I watched from the sidewalk, my neighbors and I commented how our road has become safer with turning lanes, NO passing zones, enlarged Stop signs and a Traffic light. Yet, driving in town is still dangerous, because people in a hurry or distracted disregard courtesy, Traffic and Safety laws which are intended to keep US safe on the roads:)

13. #7 #8 #11…..

    Just because you FEEL a certain way, it does not make it hashkofos HaTorah.

    See Chovos Halvavovos Shaar Habitochon chapter three. It is impossible for someone to harm/kill himself or others if it is not predestined to happen from Hashem.

    Many, many gedolim were of the opinion that there is no chiyuv or mitzvah to wear a seat belt, at least locally. It goes into “tamim tehiye” “shomer pesoyim”….

    In fact many gedolim held wearing a seat belt showed a lack of belief in “tomim”. Daas Torah is not how you FEEL. It is what the Gedolim HOLD.

    (I understand that there are some Poskim who hold that this does go into “venishmartem”. However it still cannot make a person die before their time!!)

14. Why must there be debates about the laws? There are seatbelt laws for a reason, regardless of what you believe. Following the laws makes the roads safer for everyone including yourself and your families.

15. Please provide a list of names of rabbis who hold there is no obligation or mitzvah to wear a seat belt. thank you.

16. #13

    If your statement is true, then the concept of “v’nishmartem” goes against the concept of “bitachon.”

    May I suggest that life/death/harm is the result of the combination of free will and Hashem’s knowledge. If we have free will to choose right and wrong, that has bearing on Hashem’s decisions about our futures. Should we act recklessly, this feeds into Hashem’s determinations of our future.

    If all that is necessary is bitachon, no safety measures need ever be taken. All medical technology becomes irrelevant. Anyone who questions anything that happens is, by definition, wrong to do so. All is by Hashem’s will, so no matter what happens, we should not do anything to protect ourselves from harm, get medical treatment, or blame anyone for anything.

    Avoiding medical involvement is a tenet of Christian Science, not Judaism. Rambam was a doctor, and I’m pretty sure that it’s acceptable halachically to pursue medicine as a career, and avail oneself of medical intervention to save oneself from harm (in fact, I have many books on the subject).

    That said, please listen to Rav Zev Leff for information specific to the type of situation we are discussing.

    If that doesn’t convince you, then simply accept the dinah d’malchuta dinah concept espoused by #14. It’s NJ law – why must you fight it?

17. Hey “Know it All”.. anyone who says that there is no Chiyuv to wear a seat belt and that wearing one show a lack of Bitachon is an idiot… certainly not a Gadol. Name one! When you say these things you are being a Choteh U’Machteh as Harabim!

18. its hard to mesh free will with ‘hashem decides all” , how can we have free will if in fact hashem knows all that will happen? My rebbi gave me this analogy once. Imagine you are watching a basketball game on tv, and recording it onto video. When you watch it back later, you know exactly what move every player will make, but those players, at the time during the recording have the free will to do what they please, even though the outcome is already known.

19. #17….

    TLS will not let me post names of Gedolim.

    #18….

    This topic is discussed in the Rambam, end of Hilchos Teshuva. I don’t know who your Rebbi is, but his analogy does not seem to coincide with the opinions of the Rambam or Raavad there.

    This is a very complicated topic; why Yediah is not a contradiction to bechira. The Raavad is not too happy that the Rambam even discusses this question when our minds are too small to undrstand the correct answer.

    #16….

    You are dealing with a very complicated issue. If our level of Bitachon would be at the proper level, we would not go to doctors. (At least according to the Vilna Gaon.)

    When we do not put full Bitachon in Hashem, sometimes Hashem will let whatever we rely on instead, i.e. tevah, take control.

    However, the Chovos Halvovos clearly says that nothing can happen to anybody without the active will of Hashem wanting it to happen, even without the intervention otheother causes.

    This topic is extremely complicated. My original point was only that #1 seemed to imply that even though it was a “A TRUE MIRACLE FROM HASHEM”, ifb the child would not have been wearing their seatbelt, the miracle could not have happened. This is a false statement!

20. God Job Danny and Brian I thought that mail box was gonna get whacked but you guys are good.

21. Them Boys from from tiltons are good there is no dought about that good job brian n danny keep it up

22. #19

    I’ll assume that today we do not have full bitachon in Hashem. This is an unfortunate reality. That said, I don’t believe that any of my statements contradict yours. Yes, Hashem can cause any miracle to occur, however, who’s to say that our actions don’t have affect on how Hashem decides our fate? In fact, I believe that our actions have a direct relationship with Hashem’s decisions.

    So, in fact, a miracle can occur if one is not belted, however, a miracle need not occur. Hashem may look at those who risk their lives (or, choose less safe ways of driving), and decide that their time will come earlier rather than later. Our actions have direct bearing on how Hashem decides what occurs in a given situation.

    If the child had not been belted, Hashem would have known ahead of time, and might have changed the cheshbon of the out come. Neither you nor #1 “know” what would have happened, however, I suspect that Hashem would have decided that a reckless decision of not buckling the child would have resulted in harm associated with the laws of physics and biology. I don’t base this on any inside info of how Hashem works, just the statistics of past results.

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