New Shidduch Crisis video released: The 4 Questions

Approximately three years ago, TLS presented a video from Rabbi Yisroel Lichtenstein who used blocks to present the Shidduch Crisis issue to many Rabbonim who signed a Kol Kora asking boys to begin dating at a younger age.

That video gave “explanation of why so many girls are currently remaining single, and what you can to do stop the problem from continuing to devastate the Litvish/Yeshivish communities in North America,” Rabbi Lichtenstein said.

A new video was now released, titled the 4 Questions: 1.Bashert 2.Halacha 3. Maturity 4. What can I do.

Watch the video below.

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    • Who is “one of our” RY that is accepted by Klal Yisroel, like any of the 4 Gedoilim that signed the Kol Kora? (There are 90 our USA Rabonim & RY that did sign that boys should start @ 21)

  1. This may all be true, but nothing will change untill the roshei yeshiva will adjust the system. The standard in most mainstreAm yeshivos is, the rosh yeshiva says 2nd and third year beis medrash shiur, only then do they go to eretz yisroel for another 1-2 years. Do the math and you will see how old they are. The only solution is for the rosh yeshiva to say 1-2 year, and skip the 1st year beis medrash shiur,(which in many cases is just a waiting-in betwen year. Since most roshey yeshiva are not doing this, all the talk and convincing parents is a waste of time. no bachur wants to be different then his whole oilom. This is truth why very little has changed.
    They can also focus on the girls marrying later, but no one will touch that

    • When a Bachur is a 20 year he is a Bar Onshin. He is held responsible for what he is doing. If a boy and 3 of his friends delay Shidduchim till 23 those 4 boys can cause an Aguna. Also, no RY commanded any one of his Talmudim to join Hatzola, or to take a Dor Yeshorim test. Please don`t blame the RY, blame those that are prolonging till 23!

      • I disagree, almost all RY strongly push for Dor Yeshorim, many allow Dor Yesharim into their Yeshivos so it is easier for their talmidim to get tested. The same goes for joining Hatzola or any of the other amazing organizations that service our community. If a talmid want’s to join and a RY feels that it’s an appropriate thing for that talmid why wouldn’t he encourage an push him to give back to the Klal.
        So yes, while RY don’t “command” talmidim to do certain things, they certainly push them to.

  2. To Joe, Are you not agreeing with the Gedolim that signed that the Age-Gap is the problem?
    To Pashut Yid, If one RY would speak the other would not speak. Is there any American Rosh Yeshiva that is accepted by Klal Yisroel?
    To Ed. When Chazal say & Halacha paskens that a person should get married young, it means that there is enough maturity to get married at that young age.He does not need to be a Ben Arboim Le`Binah to get married.

  3. What’s there not to agree? He showed the math. Do you agree 1 an 1 is 2 ? Since you can’t make a coherent mathematical argument with the data you just say you don’t agree?

  4. I don’t agree that the numbers prove there is a crisis.
    The numbers given show Lakewood boys vs Lakewood girls. Assuming that they are accurate, and not discounting children from Lakewood who attend school in other areas, it still doesn’t take into account the obvious fact that boys from Lakewood don’t only marry girls from Lakewood.
    Additionally, 23 year old boys don’t exclusively marry 19 year old girls. Many will marry 20,21,or even (gasp) a 23 year old. Plus, boys aged 21 (on a smaller scale) 22, 24, 25 are also going to be marrying girls ranging in age from 19-23.
    Lastly, the numbers presented above don’t take into account that some boys and girls will leave the community, while many others will join (flip outs.) you can’t honestly claim that there is a crisis when the numbers used are from when the children are age 13 and 9.
    When all is said and done, IMHO, there is a guy out there for every single girl.
    One thing that I will admit to is that the “shidduch system” is stacked largely in the boys favor which causes tremendous stress on girls and there families.

    • its definitely true that many 23 yr old boys are marrying girls that are other than that “perfect” age 19. but would that perhaps just reduce the impact of the age gap and the resulting number of girls remaining single, as opposed to making the crisis incorrect? There certainly DOES seem to be many many older single girls and not so many single boys around for them to marry.

      • Yes! Exactly! The entire premise of Libbi is that all 23 yr olds are marrying 19 yr olds. If that isn’t true, and 23 yr olds are marrying girls of different ages, the age gap is no longer a problem. Thank you for agreeing with me.

        • i am not agreeing with you! even if the age gap is not always 4 years, the age gap is there in many cases. i dont have statistics, but i would say, by and large, husband and wife are 2-3 yrs apart. this is just the norm from my personal experience and that of all my friends and relatives. While SOME marry similar age or closer in age, MOST do not. so just because the gap is not FOUR years, does not mean you can dismiss the whole issue with a wave of your hand!

          • Of course i can “dismiss the whole issue with a wave of my hand” there is no proof that an age gap, be it 4 years like the video claims or 2-3 years like you claim, is the cause of the problems that plagues the shidduch system.

    • 1-)Lakewood was used as a sample survey. The same percentages are true all over the Charaidi world.(AKA Black Hats).
      2-)Its not that they marry 19 year old girls. Its the time of entry into Shidduchim. 800 boys are getting 1000 new Esroigim to pick from. You know what will happen to the 20% not taken. Next year the same % of Esroigim are coming into the market.
      3-)There is a guy there for every girl, if the guy listens to Hashem, Halacha, Daas Torah, & looks at actual facts.If they don`t listen, its like 4 boys beating up one women, take away all her money and claim that Parnosa is Bashert. Their Parnosa is robbing and/or causing Agunas
      .4-)There is tremendous stress because numbers don`t match.
      Please help in changing the system!

      • You missed my point. I dispute your numbers and math. There is a lot more to having accurate statistics than what you presented. The issues that I raised in my first comment are merely a few examples of problems with your numbers, and thus your “facts.”
        I don’t agree that there are only 800 boys in choosing from 1000 girls. Your numbers don’t prove that.

  5. the numbers make sense however its based on theory why dont we take the numbers of girls going in to shidduchim and see how many of them are not married by 23 of that year. for example if 1000 girls enter this year 2019 at the age of 19 lets see how many of these girls in 4 years are single when they are 23 then i will agree that there is a real problem. not being married by 21 does not make a crisis

  6. I would like to put out to facts that people over look

    1) there are HUNDREDS of single GUYS over the age of 25 in Bmg, so to say that there isn’t a shidduch crisis on both sides doesn’t know the facts
    2)most 23 year old guys don’t end up marrying the 19 year Old just ask your self “what’s the age difference between you and your spouse”? , do some research most guys marry someone closer in age (even though they enter the “market” at different times) so the chart is flawed
    So my theory is that the reason there is a shidduch crisis because we aren’t looking for what should be important in a marriage and we say “no” to a person for those unimportant reasons that’s why there are so Many singles

  7. I know a lot of great working boys who are having a rough time with Shidduchim. Some of this boys are real nice quality boys, who are actually doing their job of earning a parnassah and are extremely mature and will make extremely great husbands. But unfortunately the system brainwashes girls to marry so called learners “many of whom are sitting and hocking all day in the cofee room” maybe it’s time to speak up about another crises “boys who are irresponsible and just getting a free ride”

  8. The shidduch crisis is very simple. When you take “nature” out of the picture and decisions are made based on resumes, pictures, digging information etc you’re left with a crisis. There are so many time consuming obstacles and factors that can lead either side to nix a shidduch suggestion that to even get to a first date is difficult. It’s time to put nature back into the picture.

  9. if someone eats 2 apples in lakewood you are directly killing someone in africa just think about it there are only a certain amount of apples etc. this is not a jewish outlook in life. the rabbis just advise to marry close in age not chushuv person will say that you are causing a girl to be a aguna its ludicrous

    • Look at the numbers, & you will see the Emes. These numbers came out after they signed that there is a Lo Samod Al Dam Reyecho. The numbers proved the Ruach Hakodesh of the Gedoilim that signed on it.
      The word Aguna on a girl that has no one to get married to, is used in Meseches Kdushin 41A end of Tosfos #5.

  10. A survey was taken from the 20 biggest Bais Yakov`s in the USA. It showed that more than 10% per grade per year never get married. They are well over age 30 and still single. Rachmona Litzlon.

    • I mean no disrespect as I believe your intentions are completely Lsheim Shomayim. But I am willing to bet that your “survey” has many flaws in it making the results irrelevant.
      However even if it was true, it doesn’t prove that they didn’t get married because of an age gap. Correlation does not prove causation.

    • Who is going to enforce it?
      Also please note, Hashem created humans with an inclination to date and get married. If they don`t get married they sin. Why force the girls to sin?
      It`s the boys that are committing a sin by not getting married on time. Listen to the video on Halacha again.

  11. Thank you Libbi for bringing this information to the tzibur. There is a serious crisis going on when we have 1000 girls over the age of 25 who are unmarried. Take all the yeshivish single boys over 25 in Lakewood & the entire USA & they won’t come close to the number of single girls. I hope something changes.

  12. Allowing Dor Yeshorim does not mean pushing Dor Yeshorim or Hatzola .If a Bachur wants to listen to Hashem, Halacha ,Daas Torah,& wants to be in Shidduchim at age 21, and the RY pushes him to go to EY till 23, please publicize . So that caring Yiden that don`t want to support a system that causes Agunas should know about it. Ve`Hoika Osam neged Hashomesh.

    • If a Bachur wants to start shidduchim at 21 and his Rebbe and parents agree that he is ready then I will bet that this Bachur is currently “in the parsha.” You can’t say that “there is a kol Koreh” and therefore all bachurim must start dating at 21. What if they are not ready? what if they have no interest? Furthermore, what if there is a 23 year old bachur who for what ever reason isn’t ready to start dating, do you think he should be forced to start because he is practically aiding in the murder of a unmarried girl?

      • The whole orthodox world is in Shidduchim @ 21. Why is he not ready. Why doesn`t he have an interest? Can he turn off the circuit breaker of interest from age 21 to age 23?
        Someone came to the Chazoin Ish & said that Ben Shmone Esrai Lechupa is because years ago boys were ready at that age. Today they are not ready.He answered “Is Ben Shlosh Esrai Lemitsvos also only years ago?” See Masai Ish part 2 page 206

        • As a whole American boys are not ready to start dating and get married at the age of 21. Demanding that the reality changes is realistic. That’s is not to say that a 21 year old can’t be ready to get married. However, the way our society is currently structured they are not ready. If you where advocating for changes in the chinuch system to prepare boys to be ready at 21 that would be a different story.

    • Daven that boys should do Tshuva & start Shidduchim at 21.

      In Jewish history the Ma`Hral Davend to create “One” Goilem of Prag. Do you want to Daven that Hashem should create another 20% Goilems per grade per year to be in Shidduchim. There are plenty of Goilems around as is!
      Daven Lechu Ve`Noshuvo El Hashem! Boys should adhere to Halacha

  13. Doesn’t make any sense.
    1 The whole world does not
    revolve around lakewood.
    2 People don’t just marry
    people from there community
    Use your common sense not some numbers from some schools.

  14. There might be a number crisis but there’s also a much bigger issue regarding shidduchim which is an “education crisis”!
    The difference in boys education and girls education in the yeshicish world is so huge that it’s a miracle so many shidduchim are made!

  15. Anyone whos been in shidduchim for more than a few years can see clearly that nothing about this system make sense. Theory and numbers, are not really relevant. This is clearly a gezeira from Hashem. Like any other tzara, we all need to daven with our hearts for each other. Do your best to redt shidduchim. Show that you care. Hashem is doing the rest.

    • Why don`t Chasidim have the Gezaire of old girls?
      Why don`t orthodox Yiden in EY & Europe have the Gezaire of more than 10% girls per grade per year stay single?
      Why is this Gezaire found only by American Yeshivish people?
      Because Yeshivish people are WRONG by allowing boys to start dating only @ 23. Wrong! Wrong! Wrong! As per Psak of Gedoilim in EY.!
      Daven that boys should start at age 21, & the Tzore will be taken away by Hashem! Be`Ezras Hashem

  16. I think it’s time to stop with this craziness that every single boy is supposed to learn for life. While the wife is supposed to be the maid, cook, babysitter, as well as the one who is supposed to bring in a parnassah.

    And not only that due to that high honor a girl’s parent’s must also pay full support for a minimum of 5 years so their “big tzadik” son in law could talk garbage and lashon hara in the cofee room.

    What an unfortunate and confused disaster our system has become ????????

  17. What is doubly sad is that besides the fact that we have created a system where it is mathematically impossible for 10% of woman to get married which can totally be fixed if there was a will to – people say things like this is not even true and the numbes are made up and other ridiculous things like that.. Can you imagine how hurtful this is to the people going through this while boys do nothing and don’t even understand the ramifications of their inaction unfortunately.

  18. All those with comments about girls rejecting boys, boys learning too long, and any other point please realize that your point is completely irrelevant to the matter at hand. There has to be an even playing field in terms of quantity in the game for both sides and if there was all these other issues would automatically resolve themselves. Both sides would have to compromise on all these issues if they wanted to get married and they would. Since there isn’t- boys have totally the upper hand and the can ask and demand whatever they want and girls go to extreme lengths to compete to stay in the game. This includes spending tons of money on fancy seminaries in israel and otherwise just to impress the few boys..Numerous other issues can be linked as well to this imbalance and as previously noted would resolve themselves mathematically if we only chose to change out dating habits..

  19. To those that seem to assume that all learning boys are in the coffee room chilling and speaking lashing horah. Maybe go take a walk through a Seder in the Mir or one of bmgs Bais medrashim. Although there’s always a % of bums in every community the majority of learning boys are actually learning and proud of what they do.

  20. @true I’m not bashing learning torah I also believe that a jew is supposed to learn torah and in the goodness of torah etc,

    What I am bashing is the “system” behind it as though the wife is supposed to be the one earning parnassah and the shver is supposed to support you. The responsibility of parnassah is on the husband.

    You don’t become a holy person because you learn while expecting everyone to do all the things you are officially supposed to do.

    Why are girls brainwashed to reject good quality working boys. When most of them can’t physically do everything learning boys expect them to do?

  21. I really don’t see why girls can’t wait for a couple years instead of making boys start early. This will solve so many of the issues. Girls will have “landed” from seminary high and will be more mature and maybe even have some money saved up. Boys will be able to learn and mature as they’re doing now. Who will enforce it? Who’s enforcing what you’re doing now? If screaming Lo saamod works, it will work both ways. If not, let’s think of something else!

    • This was already answered by Libbi in answer to Ahron. Zaidi wants to add that a girl that voluntary waits a few years is self inflicting pain.

  22. I agree with Tzvi. You are manipulating statistics to show what you want while ignoring many other factors. Anyone who learned statistics can see that.
    Second, me and almost all my friends (girls) did not start Shidduchim until age 21
    Third, had my husband been in Shidduchim at age 21 and me at 19 we would have never been compatible and gotten married. He himself admits he was not marriage material at 21. So while yes if a boy is ready at 21 he should begin dating no problem but to say all boys must do that is close minded .
    You’re premise may hold (weakly) with logic but here is the fact: if a 23 year old boys bashert is a 19 year old girl then that is who he will marry no matter if he started dating at 21.

  23. Please listen to the Maturity video again.
    Can i know what maturity was gained from 21 to 23?
    To`Amehu from Thursday afternoon unti Sunday morning?
    Walking out on the Rosh yeshiva when he going to say a Shiur?
    Reb husband and 3 of his friends risked your grademate staying single?
    Watching some boys smoke, & other boys drink?
    Is it only the Tembel Amerikayee that is not ready till 23?
    All over the world boys start earlier, and age 21 to 23, none of the above are done.

  24. Please see Libbi answer to #7.
    “4 people beating and robbing one victim, & claiming Parnosa is Bashert. This is their Parnosa.
    Rachmona Liotzlon from doing against Halacha & claiming Bashert!

  25. All of you commenting have a point, and Libbi’s math definitely sounds like it makes sense (although I didn’t figure it out myself and I’m not agreeing necessarily) but every single one of you forgot a very important point: THERE IS SOMEONE WHO IS RUNNING THE WORLD, and it’s not me, or you, or Libbi, or even (and I know I will get beaten for this) our great gedolim! Hashem is in charge, and although our gedolim are great people on a much higher level than me or you, and they can do things we can’t fathom, Hashem is still the one in charge.
    Please, all of you, continue doing everything you can to help us singles who are not engaged yet, but it won’t work if you leave Hashem out of the picture. And fighting about it definitely won’t help you.
    I don’t know whether bridging the age gap will help, and I will not argue with our gedolim. If this is what they say, maybe it’s something we should try.
    But to say that THIS is causing the crisis, and only THIS can help, and if you don’t follow, YOU are causing girls to never get married… sounds too much like playing God to me. And honestly, this is holding me back from listening to you. You are not the ones running the world, and if you pretend to be, why should I listen to you?
    (And I’m just wondering what ever happened to the fact that 40 days before a person is born, a malach says “Bas Ploni L’Ploni”.)
    I hope I’m not sounding too confrontational. I’m just fed up with everyone pretending to run the world of shidduchim (not just here, in general). You can help, there is much you can all do to help, but leave the “helpful” comments in your head. That’s one thing that definitely does not help.

  26. just want to chime in with my personal experience.
    after reading and being influenced by all these articles for the last number of years I finally had a son in shidduchim, so I thought it would be good to look for a girl close in age. bearing in mind that my son is a TOP boy, shtark learner and middos etc, I first said yes to a couple of older girls who seemed very excellent and accomplished, who quickly said NO to us. these girls were actually older than my son (24). mostly no reasons were given, but the one time a reason was given it was fairly lame (in my opinion).
    this leads me to believe that maybe girls turn down good prospects for silly reasons????

  27. As long as I am remaining single ( with a good job) then there is no shidduch crisis. Because at least one girl has a good option.

    Once I am off the market and unavailable, then I can empathize with the crisis.

    HA HA

    Alteh Bucher,

  28. Diego, now your story makes even less sense . Girls of any age should have grabbed him just for that first name.

    I have a daughter, I would have offered full support.

  29. The problem is even a lot worse than Rabbi Lichtenstein describes. The simple equation is that if boys start at 23 and girls at 19 then every boy has 5 classes of girls to choose from. Ask any mother or father who went through shiduchim for boys and girls. Any decent boy has 5 resumes as compared to girls.

    • This year, 2000 Bais Yakov Yeshivish girls became age 19, and only 1600 Yeshivish boys became age 23.They are now entering Shidduchim. Each boy has 401 new fresh girls to choose from. He can only take one from the fresh crop and leave the others as leftovers. Or from the left overs of: the 20 year old, the 21 year old, the 22 year old, the 23 year old. in other words he can take from the Chodosh, Yoshon, Noisor, Nishor. This is a man made tragedy. The only way to stop it is by bringing in young for the young, & the older will take the older.

  30. This year 1600 Yeshivish boys became age 23 & 2000 girls became 19. Each boy has 401 nice new fresh girls to pick from. Plus left over: 20 yr. old, 21 yr. old, 22 year old 23 year old. The only way to stop it is by bringing in young boys. The young take the young, & the older take the older.

  31. TO: Poshete Cheshbon.

    Not necessarily . The old will not take the old. That is because the girls are being encouraged to hold out for younger guys. I have girls in their high 20’s insisting on younger guys because they feel the gedolim said that boys should marry older.

  32. The age gap idea being the main reason for the shidduch issues is a fallacy. The theory relies on many assumptions that have very little evidence behind it. The first assumption is that orthodox population is growing and therefore they are more 19 yr olds than there are 23 yr olds. I’m a statistician for the largest statistical agency in the world. No major agency is tracking how many Jews there are in the U.S, let alone how many Orthodox Jews there are. At best, the Pew survey in 2013 tried to project the number of orthodox jews by assuming (from old data and a small sample size) that 2% of Americans are Jewish and that 10% of Jewish adults are orthodox (also using old data and a very small sample size) .And then some people tried to compare that number of orthodox jews to a number from 10+ yrs beforehand to estimate the growth rate. This is a very weak way to do an estimate. Therefore we dont really know if the orthodox population is indeed growing. And even if it was, it is very possible that the growth rate is only occurring in the chasidish segment (as they have have the same level of shidduch issues) so attribute this idea to the shidduch issue of the non-chasidish is a big stretch… I could go on and on about this but the bottom line is there are many bigger reasons we have the shidduch issues that have nothing to do with the ‘age gap theory’.

  33. Lakewood is an example of a city with the growing population increase of about 7% per year. This same 7% Population increase is by all orthodox Haredi (AKA Black Hats) When you see that only Yeshivish have this problem you know that there is something wrong with that system.

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