[The following was submitted to TLS by someone who says he was the first salesperson to introduce MHA to the Frum world] As first reported here, It’s amazing how so many people are mamesh mikayem naaseh vinishma when they blog. Why don’t you first find out the facts?
I was the first one to bring this to the frum world and I am happy I did. Since I did not listen to all the “its a scam” people, I got thousands of dollars into yiddishe hands. People who are have ordered their secure sleeves and expected to get a gift check (not CARD) can get back their money by disputing it with thier credit card. Citicard, and Capital One have been very accommodating. Some people had a problem with Chase as some representatives don’t want to issue a credit past 60 days. If they dont want to, tell them its the law in the Fair Credit Billing Act. If they dont listen you can report them by calling 1-877-FTC-HELP (1-877-382-4357).
MHA was not a scam. No one got scammed. The ones who can not dispute, are those who made the purchase with a gift card. They will have to wait for the court to first collect all the assets of MHA and only then send in your claim. You will get a portion of the pie. (Not worth your time)
The “if its too good to be true, then it’s not true” people, could have been 5 – 10 thousand dollars richer by now. But alas “its too good to be true” so while you are wise and not naive, you remained wise and not naive but all the rest of us got money.
The “someone on the bottom will be left holding the bag” group of people, never took the time to understand that with this program you make money even if you don’t sign anyone up. They WILL be holding the bag, IF they don’t dispute it.
#36. I see you really do know what your saying. I really give you respect, but I think it’s different when there is a credit card involved, because THEY are the ones who protect you.
“But lemaaseh Some people DID lose out, like the people who purchased with a gift card”. Good point, so let me ask you should have we decided not to pump in $150,000 into Yiddishe hands because someone might buy it the wrong way? Lets see what the coffee room says.
And for Mr. K who threatened to report me to the FBI and who threatened to publicize all my emails (in which I help everyone to make sure they dispute the charges properly). You’re mamesh a tzadik.
Finally I’ll say this. Besides for Mr. K (who was not even in MHA) I did not get even one accusing phone call. Every single person was so nice. Every one told me we know it’s not your fault and thank you for helping us with the information we need to retrieve our money.
I’m sure everyone who wrote things that are not so nice only did so because they were upset FOR those who may have lost money.
At the end of the day we still have each other and we each care for each other and this is what HKBH wants. Even my friend, Mr K. also meant well.
Wishing all my fellow brothers bracha vehatzlacha uparnassa b’revach.
And finally, I have a new thing which you could make thousands a month. It’ll cost you only $5. Pay ONCE. That’s it. Be careful, you might be “holding the bag”. Im serious.
so what makes it “not a scam” is the fact that if you dispute the charges then you won’t be out anything? the issue here is why is it necessary to have to dispute charges in the first place? by disputing the charges you are basically saying to the credit card company: look i have been scammed and cheated and did not receive the product, please protect me as a consumer because i made the purchase with your credit card. and btw, many people made hundreds of millions off madoff…does that mean it wasn’t a scam? since when is a scam defined by who makes money and how much money they make? a scam is something that is unsustainable…which this has proven to be. even if there is no intentional fraud, if it is unsustainable then it’s a scam.
What Is your name? If you did nothing wrong why wont you give your name in the letter?
and i must add, the “I got thousands of dollars into yiddishe hands” and “Wishing all my fellow brothers bracha vehatzlacha uparnassa b’revach” takes the cake. just like all the “l’toeles harabim” signs you see all around…after all, its l’toeles harabim!
I’m not sure I understand the point here. Was there a legitimate business behind the profits or not? Is it not a ponzi scheme if those left holding the bag can dispute the credit charges? Or is the swindle justified.
I totally believe u. I don’t think this was a scam and i don’t think u would’ve gotten anybody involved had u known about this rough ending. I hope the disputes go through. I’m interested in the new program for $5 a month. Please email your downline about the new opportunity. Thanx
listen, i don’t profess to know much about how these things work but i just have 1 question on this whole MHA thing: if somehow they can really sell discounted gifts cards and still turn a profit, why the whole elaborate scheme? why doesn’t MHA just sell discounted gift cards? why the registration, fees, money upfront, etc.? if it makes sense for whatever reason (fill in the blank…one of the numerous peshatim that have been suggested) why doesn’t MHA just make all this money?
Put yourself in his shoes for a minute. If you were completely innocent would you want EVERYONE to know it was you who was scammed and have EVERYONE whispering behind your back. Even if he knows he did nothing wrong there will always be those who accuse him. Why should he put himself in that situation? Those who know, know. Stupid question!!!
Well I guess one good thing about this is that if the CC companies lose enough money over this, they wont allow their users to pay the next (or other current schemes) with their cards.
Another good thing is, hopefully this will serve as a wake-up call to all Yidden that just because they MAY not come out with a loss, doesn’t mean that they wont lose on the next one (Which you have the audacity to try and sell in a letter defending the inevitable collapse of all of these types of schemes)
I personally believe that it was a scam, but that the writer of this letter was duped as well.
Any time somebody offers these “too good to be true” offers, IT IS A SCAM. Stay away. You may win, but there will always be people at the bottom who lose (and you may be the one at the bottom who loses.)
If you would have spent the time instead working at a real job, you would have made much more money. People who don’t work are always looking for ways to “beat the system”.
Oh please, every MLM is a scam by definition.
You knew that it would collapse as every MLM has to collapse eventually.
You relied on disputing charges with your credit card company as a safety net in this scam.
You probably violated the credit card companies agreement by using your card to participate in this scam.
There is no guarantee that the credit card companies will not realize this and not only not allow for a dispute but will charge you!
Please stop advising people in our community to proceed with this scam.
You have done enough damage and you should be quits, you are digging urself a bigger hole.
Playing shtik with banks and credit cards involve very serious felonies and hefty jail time.
Your attorney retainer alone will cost you fifty grand!
what you pay is what you get! sometimes?1?
The letter writer has a real job. He was doing on the side to make some extra parnassah.
I think the Salesman was not intending to scam anyone..since the program was for 230 to get a 300 dollar card..if it lasted 5 months you are already ahead. I don’t think anyone truly thought this thing will last forever. Even now one can buy giftcards at 10-15% below face value..(big companies like Staples and Target sell them to get cash in bulk)
The question is to invest in a “window of opportunity” investment..where it makes sense until it doesn’t..if that is considered a scam.
You explained how to not be a victim of the scam, I don’t see an explanation of why the whole operation wasn’t a scam.
Please let me know what this 5.00 new program is all about.thank you.
will someone with understanding explain how this business worked?
how was it supposed to work?
i am not accusing anyone of wrongdoing nor am i qualified to judge w/o knowing the facts.
i would like to understand who developed the business and what the model for success was supposed to be.
when it didnt work as planned why didnt it work,
please respond with supporting information and be careful to stste what is knowledge and what is guess work.
thank you so much
OK I will take your word, It was not a scam!
It’s like most investments, some people win and some people lose. Some people made profit up front and lost it all at the end. It doesn’t need to be wrong or a scam for it to be a bad investment. If you put some time to think how there could be such a big return on your money [with-out risk] you would have seen that it will go bust. Bottom line, when you invest you should make sure you can afford the loss if it goes under. Otherwise the best investment is in your pocket
I thought Yidden were smart enough not to duped by this scam!!!
Just want to say one thing. Not gonna judge if it was a scam or failed business but your last comment of
“And finally, I have a new thing which you could make thousands a month. It’ll cost you only $5. Pay ONCE. That’s it. Be careful, you might be “holding the bag”. Im serious.” Makes you lose all your credibility
agree with #9
Here are the facts the way I see them:
1. Was it a scam? – That means, was this deliberate? I will give the benefit of the doubt and say that there was a “legitimate” business being run that due to unforeseen circumstances failed.
2. Did people lose money? Well if you bought it a certain way then the gov’t protected you through laws requiring a reimbursement by the credit card company. Looking at it this way I would say that yes people lost money. Only those who were suspicious from the beginning and paid in a way that protected themselves were spared a loss.
I hope next time (and I don’t doubt that there will be a next time) everyone figures out the right way and protects themselves (so that they can get back the money when “something” happens).
How sick, your business plan was: Take peoples money, give them a monthly 30%+ return using the next guys investment and when it fails just rely on the credit card companies to bail everyone out.
Instead of some remorse and regrets we have you defiantly defending yourself. You are delusional if you think a judge will just smile and say, “Wow, this oiber chochom defeated the system, let’s give him a prize.”
and I quote
“But lemaaseh Some people DID lose out, like the people who purchased with a gift card”. Good point, so let me ask you should have we decided not to pump in $150,000 into Yiddishe hands because someone might buy it the wrong way? Lets see what the coffee room says.
So you menuval hold that Genaiva is mutar if other people make money
You have no shame but to get on a public website and declare that I’m a ganef , But dont worry if you get caught go steal from the credit card company.
gehonim kolim veheim ainam kolim
Now I really understand the saying
A sucker is born every minute.
Oh sure, the big banks are clueless.
Is using a credit card to facilitate a ponzi scheme legal? Does it violate the credit card aggreement? Do they still have to dance to your pathetic tune and reimburse all the losers?
So are you a ganev or not?
Please get the facts straight Before calling him “menuval”.
You were obviously not involved. You have no idea wat u are talking about.
reply to #13:
what you don’t understand is that staples gift cards are different than visa check cards (or wells fargo, whatever they were). the reason staples sells discounted cards is to get you into their store. because they are the ones making the profit (whatever it is…20% or 30%) they can forgo a part of it by selling you a store credit at a discounted rate. for example, if (for arguments sake) they usually have a 20% mark up, if they sell you a gift card at 15% off they still make 5%. that is not the case here. these are cards that can be used as cash, provided by banks! how can wells fargo provide discounted cards at 15% off? when you swipe $100 with that wells fargo card wells fargo must pay the merchant $100 (or $100 minus the credit card fees…maybe a couple percent). How can such a scheme (or scam) ever work?
someone who publically declares that YES I’m a ganev yet I’m a tzaddik is a menuval
Oisa maase zimri veroitza schar pinchos
You don’t seem to have been involved either …so are U being moitzi shem rah or not?
Why don’t you go find out the law and post it here instead of posting open ended questions?? make yourself useful !!
the money you were supose to make this year was already determined on rosh hashana . so dont sweat it. u can try to beat the system to make a buck or two but if that is more then what was decided on rosh hashana ,its just not gonna happen
I heard he’s actually giving back money to those that lost out
Please, why do name calling post have to go through. Everybody out there, it’s understandable that emotions are running high and that people want to vent and express their frustration. But please leave the harsh words out. Besides, it’s easy to accuse and be the concerned neighbor after the fact. Where were all of you when the adds were coming out. If it concerned you so much why didn’t you place a counter add, for example? If you let it alone then (aside from the people you may have argued with) than what is the point of going on a public site and bashing everyone. Please, discuss all you want, but stick to the topic. Blog, don’t hog.
great posts! very compelling and well written 🙂
Pumped 150,000 into frum hands. I guess ge considers his own hands frum. Basicaly he made about 75k some other agents made the other 75k and the guys that bought the cards and sleeves and lost 3 to 4 thousand each were able to get it back from the credit card co. So I guess that’s a great business plan. I might suggest a new business for him. He can sell 300$ cameras for 100$ and declare bankruptcy before shipping any and don’t worry you just dispute it with the credit card company.so he can get the money and you won’t lose! And this time we will be extra careful to not use any gift cards or debit cards. Is this guy sane????
Well written. IIRC its still sefira now. We should be don li’caf zechus each other instead of bashing each other.
Ok, I’ll put it on the table for you. First of all I love the way Mr anonymous asks me to sign with my real name. I gave enough information that many people know exactly who I am. I am not signing with my name because of good-intentioned people like Little Mr K. who threatened me with every threat because I got people into the (what he calls) scam.
If you (like MR alter #10) say that all MLMs are scams, in that case this is also a scam. But please make sure to tell all good Yidden out there who are doing Ambit, Amway, Avon, Melaluka, Shakley etc. that they are also scams. I also want you to tell every business owner who has people under him and others under him etc. that they are scams too. (Looks like a pyramid to me, and since YOU can not be successful in a pyramid, it must be a scam, because had YOU joined YOU would have lost money.)
Now for the big one, Why did I say My Harvest America was not a scam. And what REALLY happened. (If you own a newspaper please take your notes well.)
MHA was offering its members (at first) gift cards at a very big discount. You’d be able to get a $200 Walmart card for $120 or/and a $300 Wellsfargo Visa card for $225. When people started calling Walmart and Wellsfargo with questions about MHA, it caused the relationship between MHA and them to sour. MHA needed to find a new Gift card vendor.They found Amex. Now there would not be anymore walmart, there would only be Amex. We were very happy about that. When they switched to Amex they raised the cost of the gift cards. We were not happy about that. But two weeks later they raised the amount you can get. Now you were able to purchase a $340 card for $250 and a $240 for $140. When people ruined the relationship between Amex and MHA (with all their teefeh kashyos – everyone wanted to know how could MHA afford it, what kind of deal are they getting from amex, can we do the same thing etc.), MHA announced that it would avoid the problem of people ruining their business relations because from now on they would send us checks. Yes actual checks to be deposited into our bank accounts. THis was very exciting. Almost too good to be true, except, that it was true and they WERE sending out checks. The one issue we had with them is that they were not shipping in the time frame that they would. In the meantime this business (or pyramid, scam etc call it what you want) started to grow rapidly. Many of us were getting monthly commission checks. Many who got in October and November were seeing commissions – which were always paid on time – of $1000 – $4000 a month. Many more were making in the hundreds and those who never got anyone into it or just got a few were seeing up to $100. But ALL of us who ordered gift cards or checks up to Feb 18 did see profit through the rebate checks. We were hoping they would continue but it was not meant to be.
Now you’re saying “you don’t have to be a rocket scientist to figure out that if you give away more money than you get, you’re going to go broke”. While you’re correct in your “don’t have to be a rocket scientist” theory, I don’t believe that THAT is the reason they went bankrupt. These people (Fred Weig and Ron Ellis) have been doing MLMs for 25 years. They know their business and had a very good reputation for their business model for their downline. I say for “their downline” because they did have some trouble in the past, but they never duped their downline, they did dupe other companies like UPS (information I read but can not confirm). They did not start this business with the intention of taking your money and running. The proof is that now, they have no money and they did not run away (if they did, it’s with their shirt on their back – maybe. These guys are in a huge mess, one that they did not want to get themselves into. The editor from Der Yid told me that his research with the courts found that MHA’s assets are near zero. People were theorizing that they would take our credit card numbers and empty them out and use our SS# and kill our credit or use it to empty our accounts of all our money (for those who are still lucky enough to have money).
SO why did they go bankrupt? It’s hard to say it, but I will. As I was looking at my downline, I thought moshiach had already come because I saw vrey familiar names that had opened accounts. Names like Adam, Kayin, Hevel Misushelach, lemech etc. I was not happy to see it because it didnt smell right. A while later when I spoke to the CEO about the delay of sending out the rebate checks and also to let him know that he shouldn’t sound so excited about the official product – secure sleeves – (small cc envelopes) because none of us give a hoot about it, he told me that there were two communities of people one in New Jersey and one in upstate NY (I wont be more specific) and particularly one person in each of those communities who opened up hundreds of false accounts, ordered the sleeves, got the rebate checks, cashed them and then… DISPUTED the charges. He said although he has proof that they cashed the checks and can get it back from them, they’ve cause terrible damage to the company.
When you pay someone with a credit card, it goes through a billing processor (Fidelity, advertises on the cover of the yated, is an example). The processor send it to your bank. If the processor gets a dispute, THEY credit the disputer. If they feel threatened that many people will dispute, they put a freeze on the companies account until the disputing stops. These people, by making many disputes, caused the billing processor to feel threatened. They then froze the account. Now MHA was in trouble because they needed the money to send out the rebates. So they announced that they are willing to allow you to make your orders more often. They said it was a trial until June. In reality, they figured that by June time, the freeze would be over. They should have been straight forward with us and told us about their problem. They should have told us to stop ordering until their freeze is over. But they were afraid to look bad. Instead they looked even worse. Many were saying,”they are not sending the rebates, and now they are trying to get even more money from us”. This caused a start of a dispute movement. These new disputes just strengthened the billing processors position to tighten the freeze. They were now not able to use them as billing processors. If they would allow it, all the money put in would anyway be frozen. MHA then said that you can only use Echecks (a very bad sign), They also told us that from now on they are stopping the rebate plan but are giving us much more money in compensations. This move was not smart, to say the least. They also said that anyone who wishes a refund would get it. At first those who asked for a refund got it. It was preceded with an email of how much they were giving you. Soon we started getting generic responses such as “your request has been sent to accounting for research”. This didn’t sound good. Not only that but they were not returning the monthly membership fees. They said that they used it to pay the upline. When we heard that we ALL ran to call our cc to put a total dispute. The mass exodus of MHA absolutely killed them. They truly had no more money and were forced to declare chapter 7.
In the end, they did not run away with all our money. What their cheshbon of making money was, we will never know. They knew what you knew and they were not dumb enough not to see that it doesn’t work. It WAS working until some people had a brainstorm which ruined it for the rest of us. I hope it was not from unzereh, and if it was, Im sure they weren’t thinking and was probably a ruch shtus that overcame them at the moment. We can not judge them.
Did I give up on MLMs? Only on the ones that require you to lay out alot of money for no real product. The $5 thing I am being asked about is real. I have done research. I understand how they are making money and I plan on making very good use of it. But, (there is always a but..) I will not get you into the program unless I feel you can be matzliach. Those who get into it WILL see thousands monthly in a few months. But I will not sign you up if you are unable to get 4 people to put in $5 (just once) on your own. I hope I just saved many people and myself a lot of time. Just warning you, it IS a pyramid and if the company goes out of business (you never know), you might be “holding the ($5) bag”.
All the best
hamavin yavin (and many do)
I beg all involved to get legal advice b4 taking any further action. defrauding a bank is no joke and if this blows up the FBI will be knocking on your door asking seriouse questions.
This was a GIANT PONZI SCHEME. They took your $240, and everyone elses $240 and had to go to wells fargo and buy a $300 for… wait for it…. $300!! They figured as long as there was money coming in they could continually purchase the gifts cards. Just like Madoff could continue to pay returns on investments with other investors. Eventually, they were paying out more in cards then they were getting it, so guess what??
THEY RAN OUT OF MONEY!
Shame on you for being a part of this ponzi scheme.
Shame on you for trying to justify it and defend yourself.
Shame on you for hundreds, who are now out thousands.
So this latest thing is what? send in $5 and in a few months you will get thousands in return? You should be arrested just for making this claim.
I wonder if the credit cards will pursue criminal charges against those that sold the cards. You could bet your bottom dollar that the credit card companies will not eat this loss without filing criminal charges. Good luck Mr. Auther/Facilitator
1. Why would people calling companies affect the relationship with that company? I guarantee that if 100,000 people called Avis or any company that points or miles of any kind and asked them how much they were paying for it etc, it would not make a dent in the relationship. If everything is legit, why would any company be phased by inquiries?
2. So you know a company is basically giving away money, and you “don’t know what their cheshbon was”. This is the equivalent of someone saying they know Madoff isn’t making that much money, but he’s giving 12%, I don’t know what his cheshbon is. Investing in a system like that is either pure stupidity, peshious, or hachsala
Don’t see how you can see it any other way, even by writing long responses that seem to skirt every crucial point being made
By the way, I never meant to say that it is right to steal $300 from one to give $150,000 to everyone else. (THis is why I don’t put my name on). I meant, I think it’s a good thing to tell people about an opportunity even if there is a possibility that someone will not be smart in the way he does his business. Of course one must educate everyone in any way that he knows so as to save people from loss. I still feel that all those who spread it did the right thing, and I too will continue doing what I think is good for my brothers.
And I did not make anywhere near 75K
I just wonder if any of those who are so upset and angry were part of MHA. Because I still have not gotten even ONE nasty email or phone call from anyone who was in it. On the contrary, every one who did contact me, spoke so encouragingly and with warmth. I really appreciate those calls and emails.
I dont own the $5 business company. Ill send the link to those who are interested. And btw no one I know is out thousands. I just cant believe how people can talk without getting any facts. There is not one person i know who is out (so much) money.
The chutzpah of this guy is amazing.
IT IS A SCAM. DON’T BELIEVE A WORD OF WHAT HE SAYS.
If you take apart this guy’s lange megillah, you will realize that EVERY word screams FRAUD and SCAM.
Now he’s blaming it on two people in Lakewood and Monsey. Yet, not once does he explain how this business was supposed to work. How was the company supposed to make money?
A legitimate business makes money by offering a product or a service in exchange for money. The money received in exchange for the product or service must be MORE than all overhead and cost of goods sold (including salaries) COMBINED, in order for the company to turn a profit. Otherwise, the company cannot turn a profit, and the business is either broke (like the US Federal Government and the State of NJ and Lehman Brothers), or it is a scam and a Ponzi Scheme(like MHA and the Social Security Trust Fund)
A person who works at a real job should have known this.
Now this guy is peddling a NEW business, where the guy left holding the bag “only” loses $5.
SCAM SCAM SCAM SCAM SCAM SCAM SCAM SCAM SCAM SCAM.
“Those who get into it WILL see thousands monthly in a few months”. SCAM SCAM SCAM SCAM SCAM —- Any business that promises thousands monthly for doing absolutely jack is a SCAM.
Get a real job, you’ll make so much more money.
You just explained how the scam pyramid with no business plan other than taking new peoples money to pay the old people with no plan or product to make any profit, came to an end yes if not for the adam and lemech fraud they might have gone on for a little longer. But with no profit to the company its just taking money from peter to pay paul and then from john and susan to pay peter and paul then taking money from moish and yanky and sarah and esther and chaim to pay peter paul john and susan then etc. When most of the fools in the world are used up because even though a fool is born every day this can grow by more than one person a day and there aren’t enough new fools to supply new money for the old fools they go bust! So it was inevitable. You just explained how it ended maybe a few months early. Maybe we should all thank adam and lemech for stopping it early so we didn’t let it grow so big that when it busted it would be so big and the credit card companies would hear about it and not honor any disputes.
I also know something that’ll will net you thousands a month and cost only $5. It’s called a chain letter. And it’s illegal.
I suggest thte writer of the post above re-rad what he wrote. He essentially admits it’s a scam, only that you won;t lose money because your credit card company will. The complanies will be the creditors who get only a small piece of thepie back.
You’re either a naive idiot, or a dishonest conniving thief.
How many Yiddishe neshomas have to land in jail R”L before everyone learns to clear away from these types… the money just isn’t worth it! Stealing from credit cards (“to bail them out”) is okay? ONly the people who bought gift cards are left holding the bag? It’s worth it for the thousands pumped into Yiddishe hands… what kind of logic is that? Some robinhood scheme? Midvar Sheker Tirchak!!! I can’t believe you’re on to the next one. Hashem should have Rachmanus on you and your family!!
Still can’t figure out what they were thinking? The CEO’s take a huge salary and benefits and let the pyramid scheme go as long as it can. Everybody is happy except the poor guys on the bottom. Now do you get their busimess model and plan?!
Your letters keep tying you in knots!!! Calling wells fargo or amex to verify something wont ruin a legit relationship. If you ask if its true and it is then they wont be bothered by the question and go to a manager to verify.
You still did not say how and why someone who thinks about it will understand that it works and will make (honest) money. The only person i know that will trade a nickel for a dime because its bigger is 3 years old.
The people that opened multiple accounts [and killed the great program for the rest of us] probably saved many more people from being losers in the long run. Instead of a bunch of inocent people losing a little money some “crooks” lost alot of money.
One other thing for you to note about credit card disputes, the card company looks into any dispute over about 25 dollars, any disputes that come in a pattern and/or multiple disputes for the same vendor and wont just give back all the money. They sometimes give a temp credit while they contact the merchant for proof of delivery or their side of the story. If MHA would have showed that the 60,000 check cleared they would not have given the disputer back his money.
One last thing, I was approached (not by you as I have no idea who you are) about this SCAM (no proof was yet given that it was not) and I said NO and told others the same
It was not Monsey or Lakewood B”H
The $5 thing IS exactly the same thing as the change letter except it’s legal because they are giving a product. (THe product is not something we want, it’s just to make it legal.)
The reason this would work as opposed to the chain letter is because all the work you had to do before computer/internet age, you do not have to do anymore. The system does it for you.
I would not do the chain letter because it doesn’t work, but I do believe in this, so sorry, but I am going to pursue it. ANd finally Mr Yid all who were in MHA know that everything I wrote was 100% true. Not everyone may believe that what I wrote was the cause of their downfall but what I said happened is true, and now you owe me a bracha.
This quote says it all
There is not one person i know who is out (so much) money.
A business plan that is built on stealing even a penny is as bad al pi halacha as a bank robber.
I’m sure mr fred and ron took nice ceo salaries for running this business that had no profit other than new signup money and money losing gift cards to sell. I don’t worry about their fiancial situation. I’m sure they are dissapointed that they couldn’t keep it going for longer but they will just open a new one and scam some more people while getting a salary for being the CEO. by the way I was part of it and I originaly bought your claim that they want to bring people to their site to promote their other “products” but once I got on the site and saw that the garbage they “sell” isn’t even worth puting on freebay I realized that it was not a sustainable thing. I just prayed that I would be able to jump ship before I was left holding the bag for you to make your commission checks that you showed me every month trying to get me to suck in people for you to make more money. thankfuly I jumped ship months ago and never signed up anyone else. this excuse that you can get it back from the credit card is nuts! if madoff would have been FDIC insured, would you have said it wasn’t a scam because you can get your money back from FDIC??? the people that ran this are brilliant they had the world convinced including you! they should use their brains to form a real business and they would probably do great. I think you are a nice person and I don’t think you thought people would lose money. but when will you realize you were taken for a ride along with the rest of the crew!
If you were smart you would stop answering every comment that is posted here.
If you were smart you would not been pushing this program
Just my 2 cents.
Now I’ll mind my own business
Unbelievable. Now you are on to chain letters! I suggest you retain a competent attorney. Kol Tuv.
Do a little research and you will see that this $5 scam for “a product” is all over the internet etc. and is a known trick and scam.
Either you are VERY naive, or you are much worse that I ever thought.
(BTW, after reading all the comments I really believe that this was a fake and fraud from the beginning. Any decent person should have run as far away from this as possible and not try to con people into this.)
I dont know why so many people are beating up on you. I know you and you helped us out in a way that you thought we could all gain. And you helped us when it went down.
He has repeatedly incriminated himself and will never be able to use the defense that he didn’t know what’s going in etc.
The question is whether he will be able to scam some Baal tzedoka in to bailing him out when the government comes for him…
The definitely will… He’s the beat the system type of idiot that inevitably will get caught. Plus he’s to much of a Baal gaava to admit his wrongdoing and commit to being a mentch.
I like the $5 thing whats it all about
Chain letters are totally illegal, even if there’s a “product” changing hands. Check ftc.gov for more information.
What this guy is saying is that he believes in pyramids with a worthless product to make it legal. He has it all worked out how to be on the winning side when it collapses and just follow him and he will make sure you are not the loser. He’ll make sure some guy in arizona is the guy holding the bag. He’s not hiding his intentions , I don’t know why we are arguing with him. He agrees these things are pyramids with no plans for any kind of profit other than collecting money from others. He just is naïve and thinks it will go on forever. He just. Doesn’t think that its called a scam.
Wouldn’t a legit company verify the identity of their customers? The writer of this letter is obviously desperate for parnassah. Shtick will never do the trick! Stop defending yourself and if I were you go get a legitimate parnassa before all of your scheming “hits the fan”
I don’t believe anybody commenting was involved. It is obvious from your posts’ that u don’t even know how the program worked.
to the original poster: you need to stop doing any sort of MLM now. being naive once and getting duped is (perhaps) excusable, but continuing to pursue any time of MLM for you is absolutely dangerous. You are a nice person, but you will lose all credibility to the people that know you. For the sake of your family, i beg you to stop now. If you don’t believe me, then why not go to your Rav or friends and ask them for a reality check. i guarantee you 100% that anyone who cares about you will tell you to stay away with a ten foot pole from any of these schemes – even if you think you know better, you are nogeia bedavar, it is not worth the risk to your reputation. Please stop before you end up in a bigger disaster.
You post comments on many articles on TLS. Why are they all (with rare exception) negative. You always claim to know better, have verified facts, and argue with anyone who says otherwise. Then there is just plain putting people down. If you have something intelligent to contribute than state your opinion and leave it alone. Why the need to keep bantering back and forth.
The fact that a consumer might be able to stick his credit card issuer with the loss does not render a scam less of a scam. Not in halacha and not in American law. And by the way, when a Ponzi scheme collapses the money that was paid out to the early investors is subject to recapture, as many early Madoff investors are discovering.
My dear Jews, there are no honest investment opportunities that produce sizable gains without either effort or risk. There are good opportunities for those who will put in the effort to look for them and work at them, but if someone tells you you can make a lot of money with little effort and no risk, do not believe them. Just like you can’t be successful in learning without effort.
This letter is pure baloney! And yes, pyramids are scams. Just because some people made money, doesn’t make it right. That’s how all pyramids are. As my Rov once told me, “Yes, you have to be Dan Lekaf Zechus, but you don’t have to be stupid.” The nerve you have of writing all this pure baloney is mind boggling. That’s how the the “Big Lie THeory” works. and those espousing a “Big Lie” are BIG LIARS.
i have a valuable product.
not 5 bucks, its free!
give mr. parnossah a kick in the pants
How can anyone be so stupid! If all I need is fivebucks and get four others to give five bucks then everyone would be millionaires . Forget about real estate and tech start ups let’s all just give each other five bucks… seriously I saw the ad for months in the publications and decided to finally look into it , after ten minutes of research I figured if it looks like a scam smells like a scam and the history of the company had a scam in it then this too was probably a scam. Thank god I did not do this instead I decided to look for a job …
This is my first time adding a comment to a blog, but after reading all this, I was wondering this: It doesn’t look like any of the comments are from individuals who were actually involved in MHA, just outsiders. Why aren’t the people who were involved and lost money posting angry comments? Where are they? The only comment that looks like it’s from an insider states: “I dont know why so many people are beating up on you. I know you and you helped us out in a way that you thought we could all gain. And you helped us when it went down.” I know a few people who were involved. Some made money and they’re thrilled, some lost money and they claim they’re getting it back. So why are all these outsiders yelling?
Excuse me, everything you wrote is nothing but putting me down. If you have noting of substance to remark in response to my intelligent, to the point, informative, thought provoking and often augmentative comments then say nothing!
I was in MHA. I made about $1000. I have gotten back $310 temporarily until the cc makes it permanent. If I lost my $310. nu nu.
I really don’t understand the whole fuss. Pyramids are legal. You have to make your decision if you want to go into it or not. I’m glad i did.
And let me know about the $5 deal. sounds like something I can handle.
I think those that were involved are scared that they can get in trouble and don’t want to post. I did this for 2 months and then when they changed the rules every 2 weeks claiming all the balogny that this writer blindly says over in his lange magila comment about ruining relationships with walmart and fidelity etc. I realized this was not a normal thing. I had never heard of a pyramid before and didn’t understand what was happening and what the plan was but I did realize that it was not a normal thing and I stopped right away but kept getting emails 6 times a week from them and from the agent. He actualy emailed me that he sees I stopped using them and assured me that the delay in shipping the cards was because of XY and Z and I should try it out again. There was no chance I was going back in and if you read all my comments, they are from someone that has followed them for the last 5 months. I wasn’t involved, I didn’t sign anybody up, I didn’t loose any money, I didn’t have to dispute my credit card but I did read all the emails and follow it. So my opinions are from “the inside”
Another reason why not to get involved in any direct marketing is because most people tend to take advantage of their friends and families by pressuring them to participate.
Very unhealthy for relationships.
I also think that there aren’t too many people that lost money because they disputed it with the cc. In this case I think the cc is the one holding the bag. I don’t think its enough $ for them to bother with especialy since its split between a few I’m not saying its right but if someone was really expecting a shippment and it never came I think he has a right to dispute it. The cc should go after MHA if its worth it for them but not the innocent shoppers that were scammed.
You want more money? Get a real job. Not enough money? Get a better job. Stop relying on “pie in the sky” dreams.
Get a real job
there are many other MLM’s starting up now in the community. meetings to sell new electric service. you have to pay $100 to switch and sighn others. water systems, same way , & cell phone protesters too. when will we learn? this should stop at once In my opinion.
I have one question for anyone that was involved and know what I’m talking! It have been about 3 months that everyone where starting to worry about their rebates! When MHA knew that they couldn’t payback rebates anymore, how come the announce the good news that you could buy sleeves more often and for even more profit?? These guys are professional thieves, professional liars and don’t buy their stories because they are afraid that their not going to be able to sell their new scams! And to the end you will be the looser again! This was a real scam!
Did it evre occur to you that the aleged people that disputed the charges causing the downfall of this wonderful business did so because cards that were supposed to arrive in 31 days hadn’t arrived yet after 2 months. Of course they disputed the charges! Then when the checks came…they still had the next months worth of cards that hadn’t come yet and they didn’t have the dispute settled yet so they cashed the checks to protect themselves. Then they stopped paying altogether so what were they supposed to do. The fact that they used a bunch of names? Who cares? The point was to be giving money to the pot what’s the difference if the guy signs up 100 people or signs himself up under 100 names? There was no product to sell it was just about paying fees and buying cards to feed the commissions of the higher ups. Who cares who is paying if its one guy a 100 times or 100 different peple, its all the same.
How are you allowing this guy to keep “defending” himself here? He hasn’t explained anything, rather incriminated himself further. If “teefeh kushyos” ruined the relationship between MHA and Amex then there was a real problem, because a legitimate business model wouldn’t be destroyed by some innocent questions. Lastly, how could they possibly send out checks instead of gift cards and still be a legitimate business? All they were doing in the end was giving you an unrealistic return on capital without a valid investment. Before they could have at least claimed that they negotiated bulk rates with the gift card providers, but in the end all they were doing was promising 30% returns over a short period of time. Complacency is a crime in the United States, and you my friend are a criminal. I hope you are a lesson to every greedy fool out there.
I don’t know if you are the agent who was in contact with me however I would like to pose the following questions to my agent and hope to have answers.
1:Why did you send around an email in may telling people about your “upline” that has been with the company for 4 years and has only had positive experiences for 4 years if the company has only been around for a year and a half and 3 months of those they didn’t do any business after they closed the “online grocery store”
2:Why didn’t you tell us that this company started selling groceries in december 2009 and withing 3 months had stopped shipping orders and left 2 months worth of orders undelivered and refused to refund the peoples money and the “membership fees” ?
3:Why did you tell us that the reason they are giving these discount cards is to bring traffic to their site that sells “other products” when you had already seen that the site doesn’t sell anything worth a dime?
4:Why do you now say that it was a pyramid with no known plan how to make a profit, but defend it saying that it could have worked if not for the “unforseen problems” that you mention, and didn’t mention this to us before we signed up?
5:Why when the shipping was taking more than 2 times it should have and people got suspicious and stopped ordering did you send around emails trying to convince people to come back and keep paying more money? Did you honestly not feel that there was any risk involved even at that point?
Myself and a lot of others eagerly await your answers
They did Harvest America lakewood NJ to be exact.
People really are so desperate for a job, yet they won’t actually get a real job. (What will the chavrusa or the shver think?)
So they think of these scams.
I got a question for all you “go-get-a-job” people.
I had a job for 15 years. It closed down.
I have 4 kids at home and a mortgage. Utilities, tuition, food, ins. etc.
So now I am looking for a job for the past year.
NOTHING available. Not looking for 100k or even 50k. Maybe 30k with upside potential. NOTHING available.
So don’t be so “smart” by saying “go-get-a-job”…. I had one… NOW WHAT smart guy….
Anyone have the answers to my questions?
I was also in it. they did start 4 years ago as a grocery discount MLM. They just switched to cards this summer. We all said we’ll do it as long as it works. We were all told – and should have told our downline – that we don’t know exactly how they make money, but if they’re giving it, let’s take it as long as they’re in business. When/if they fail, we’ll stop. I got back my money and everyone else I know got back theirs too.
It did NOT start 4 years ago. They started in december 2009 that is less than a year and a half ago. They “failed” to deliver groceries within 3 months of opening leaving customers who had paid without refunds. Then a few months later they started selling “discounted” gift cards. Why did none of the agents mention this to us?????
you are nuts. just sayni am sorry. u should b imbarrised
i know parnassah. he is a sweet and nice man. AND THANK YOU PARNASSAH!!! because of you i made money! this is to you letter writer. IGNORE THE NEGATIVE COMMENTS! me and my family and my friends are behind you 100 percent!!! IGNORE these ppl. THEY ARE BITTER PPL
I know him too. He’s sweet and nice. But because of him I lost money. He tried to help me make money but he didn’t explain to me what this really is when he seems like he knew what it was all along.
Dear mr. Stern, I lost money with this wonderful business venture. Would you mind sharing some of your gains with me because I think its a safe bet to say that all the money you “made” is straight from me and all the other loosers that weren’t so good at playing the game and paid with debit cards.
Chava, you are right that it started in December of 2009 – which is 2 and a half years ago. I know this agent, and I don’t believe he said anything to anyone to scam them. He was telling you what he was being told by his upline and by the CEO. Everyone who got in knew the risks. I made money with the program. Rochel, how much did you lose? Tell the one who signed you up to help you get back money. And if you are blaming someone else, why is that person to blame for your bad investment? Were you guaranteed an income by your upline?
A little math please? December 2009 to may 2011 is 1 and a half years. NOT 2 and a half and definitly NOT CLOSE to the 4 years that I was told. I don’t think that he was trying to make anyone loose money. However, I think in his haste to sign up people and make “commissions” he neglected to tell us about the negative history of this company, he exaggerated the length and stability of this company by a few years and disguised the true objective of this company which it seems he knew all along that it was a baseless pyramid. He should have been upfront about what this is all about.
You are totally foolish!
What do you base your “Opinion” on?
The only way you are not involved with a pyramid is if you bought a small parcel of land and found some huge diamond on it and you sold it for millions.
Anything is is in fact a pyramid.
Name on organization that is not. Your job is!
These schemes make people question legit a legit business model and ignorant people like you fan the fire.
There are many many legit Network marketing company’s that pay out exactly what they say they will pay out. The problem is that people come in with a lottery mentality and don’t do any real work and expect to get rich. When that happens they call it a scam.
Do some research!
I would not like you to know me. You automatically assume that “he knew all along”. You contradict yourself by saying you don’t think he wanted to make anyone loose money, but then you say “he neglected to tell us about the negative history of this company”. Why would he “neglect” to tell that to you? Do you think he told you that they were around for 4 years instead of 1.5 because he thought that you’d sign up easier with a 4 year company that with a 1.5 year company? Or maybe he was told that information from Fred. I happened to call Fred too, and he said the same thing. Shame on you.
I said “I would not like you to know me” because of the unfavorable way you judge your fellow brother.
He knew it was a pyramid and he didn’t tell me. He told me it was a marketing thing to bring people to their website to buy other things. That’s not true!
well I asked him if it was like a pyramid and he answered “No, it IS a pyramid”. You should have seen it yourself. just open your eyes. and besides pyramid are legal and so was MHA.
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