I was recently at an event where I heard the women eagerly discussing an upcoming Nshei Adirei Hatorah event. They are excited to hear words of inspiration and encouragement towards being a kollel wife. I couldn’t help but feel sad. I used to be a kollel wife. I remember those happy days. As Sukkos neared my children and I looked forward to my husband being off during bein hazmanim, building the sukkah, going on chol hamoed trips with the family and in general being around as an extra pair of hands to help while I cooked. I also felt very special to be a kollel family with the title Nshei Adirei Hatorah.
Then one day I lost that title. One day my husband made the decision to go to work for personal reasons. As hard as it was for me to have my husband leave kollel I was advised to be a supportive wife which b”h I was. Ever since he went to work, life has become more stressful. With the loss of government programs we cannot cover bills. It hurts to see multiple ads in the weeklys that offer kollel and rebbe discounts, because we desperately need the discounts as well. When yom tov approaches I’m home cooking, shopping, cleaning and watching the children without the help of my husband because he’s at work. Chol Hamoed we are lucky if my husband can take off one day and join us on a trip.
I know this is what Hashem decided is best for my family. I only wish there was an event for the wives of working husbands where we can hear words of inspiration and encouragement for being supportive wives to our working husbands even though we would feel more valued if our husbands were in kollel.
Please comment if you would appreciate and benefit from an event for the special wives of working husbands.
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So true, same for the working men themselves.
Yes!
just cuz your husband is working doesnt mean you are not a wife of a ben torah….
Does not mean you are not a yid the wife of a yid.
chelek alokai mimaal Mamish!
I agree100% being the wife of a working husband comes along with many challenges that are not spoken about. Yes the kollel wives are incredible many times working extra hard to make up for the financial hardship. Working men often travel, have demanding schedules and aren’t as available to help at home, and then comes the financial burden of the middle class no longer eligible for any programs…those wives are juggling a lot and chizuk and support would go a long way.
Welcome to the real world.
My husband is learning and he is not available to help either because he comes home for an hour each night to eat supper. I am not asking him to help with the kids at that point. I am not either eligible for any programs. So we work harder than you think.
All we are good for is paying full tuition while barely being able to cover our basic expenses.
As a working husband. I find this letter very sad. I’m sorry that you and people like you don’t have the support you need.
100%. I feel exactly the same.
That would be a great idea….
Because today in the Torah world, working people like myself are deemed basically Kofrim. We’re not deserving of being called Torah Jews. It’s a very sad plight where only someone in Kollel or so called klei kodesh are Jewish.
I listened to a lot of Shiurim from Rav Zev Smith . Every single time that he mentions during his Shiur a father of a family that left Kolel and went to work, the Rav speaks about him with tremendous respect. The same respect like an
אברך.
He would mention also about the extreme importance and
חיוב
To be
קובע עתים
By day and night to learn.
The Rav also speaks so nicely about the
Chevra who join a
דף יומי שיעור
Early in the morning or in the evening.
הוי דן את כל האדם לכף זכות
I’m talking about the genral mentality in the Torah World. You quote one Rav who always praises Bnai Torah that work. How about getting leading gedolim to come out expressing this issue?
That’s disgusting and completely false.
Really? How do you explain the reality that workng are expected to pay full tuition, give more then they can afford for Tzedakah? When you read the articles on TLS always complaining about such people in the Mosdos and ruining it for real Bnei Torah? Who do you think you’re all complaining about lacking Tznius etc. Kollel people, or are you calling working people the problem?
Come out from under your rock. Look at how working Bachurim are treated. Look at girls who don’t feel Kollel life is for them when single. They are all looked down upon.
There definitely needs to be more love and understanding. The pettiness is not what god wants.
You didn’t “lose” program – you “gained” self respect.
Programs were never meant to be a permanent solution.
I can sympathize with your plight though.
Working hard and “providing” for your family isn’t glorified…
Can you believe anyone could ” thumbs down ” on your comment??!!! Says it all.
They say that the main mesiras nefesh of learning in kollel is felt when the husband has to leave kollel, and your in a much worse financial situation than had the husband gone straight to work. I think that if your fit into that category than you can feel included in the celebration of the nshei aderei hatorah, and don’t need your own celebration. Regarding an event just to celebrate wives of working guys, I don’t think that makes sense, because we don’t make celebrations for every person doing what they need to do, nshei aderei hatorah is celebrating when people are giving up on something to do something extra.
The point, they aren’t part of teh Nshe Adirei Hatorah, which all should be included.
Do not feel for one moment that you are less than them. Your husband made the decision to support his family and that is a big chiyuv and a mitzvah. Learning is full time is special and wonderful, but supporting his family is a chiyuv on him. I know at the beginning it’s hard, but beH he will eventually be able to bring in more money so you can give your children everything they need. I wish it was understood that it is not an aveirah nor a copout to go to work.
Also, starting a marriage in kollel gives a home a solid foundation. Those years are beautiful and aren’t negated just because they didn’t last forever.
Welcome to middle class!! Unfortunately this is the way it works. As far as inspiration there are many different call in speakers to listen to. I know it’s not the same. Perhaps you can arrange something for your neighborhood which will benefit everyone .
That was a very brave letter. I hope other women can join you and have a safe and encouraging group. You deserve it!
We definitely should support wives of working husbands more.
Yes!!! I would really appreciate an inspirational speech geared to us wives of working husbands. I share the same feelings.
This is very sad. Everyone deserves chizuk and a sense of specialness in their role in serving Hashem. ‘
May it be a new year of blessing for all.
I feel you 100%. You’re right.
Just pointing out, that its true that a Yungerman has Bein Hazmanim,
but a working guy ends his regular day at 5pm and has no work on Sundays.
A Yungerman ends his day at 10:45pm. Every day. Including Sundays.
actually there are many working men who work on Sundays and long hours during the week even on Fridays and erev yom tov.
Except that they have a break after shacharis and for lunch and for supper.
My husband comes home after 7 and then goes to learn at night for over 2 hrs.
Most working men are not home at 5. Nice try and are not off Friday at 12 either.
As a kollel wife it can be frustrating when people assume kollel husbands have so much free time. In reality, learning seriously is a full-time job. Even bein hasdarim and bein hazmanim, many kollel men are still immersed in writing or extra limudim. For them, “bein hazmanim” often just means learning something different in a different setting, not taking a break. For us, family trips, if they happen, are usually short and limited and on a (non-existent) budget.
Some kollel husbands do come home bein hasdarim, but it’s hardly downtime—they’re rushing to do pickups, watching the kids until their wives get home, and then running back out for second seder. They barely have time to grab a bite to eat. This schedule isn’t ideal for them either, and many would honestly find it easier to just be out working all day than juggling traffic, errands, and childcare in those short windows.
During bein hazmanim, the picture isn’t one of relaxation either. Most kollel families don’t have the budget to hire someone to build a succah, kasher a kitchen for Pesach, or handle other household jobs. The husbands take care of these responsibilities themselves, often while also babysitting, since many kollel wives work and are not off with their kids.
So while working men also face pressures and can’t always afford endless help, the idea that kollel husbands are around more just doesn’t reflect reality. In different ways, it tends to even out.
It might even out but that means everyone is working hard and part of klal yisroel and the inspirational speeches should not be separated by groups as if one group is more special than another. I’m sure Hashem loves all of us equally even if our husbands our working. Especially if our husbands are working because we are raising a family without the praise, value and programs that kollel families get.
This comment would have validity if there were no mitzvah of Talmud Torah for those who work… when do you think we maintain our sedorim? You think that Sundays and afternoons/evenings are just leisure time for us?!
besides the fact that your assumption that the “regular” working day ends at 5 PM is a fallacy. Most people working jobs that bring in enough to support their families work far longer hours than you imagine…
Do you have to do carpool, errands, laundry, and shopping in between your tight schedule? Well, we do, bec our wives have to work.
You sit in a A\C office listening to the podcast of your choice, and think of your next big vaca which you could afford or next big simcha. We cant sleep at nights bec of our tight budgets then do our hectic day. every. single.day.
Sir. Many, many wives of working men have to work too. Especially at the beginning when the husband is just starting out in the workforce. Many yungeleit hold onto learning for as long as they can financially, which means that it takes a while until the husband’s own income can keep up with the expenses (if ever!)
Not sure why there’s this idea that working men all make millions. My father learned in kollel for ten years. When he did get a job, our family struggled for a long time until his income could catch up with the expenses of his growng family. My mother always worked. I can think of many families with similar experiences. It takes a long time to catch your footing.
What a selfish thing to say. Working people start their day much earlier then kollel. They don’t end at 5PM. They then travel 2 hours home, while working on Shmiras Einayim. They also tend to go to sleep later as well.
Interesting, I don’t actually know too many working men that finish at 5. I’m out of the house by 6 AM to go learn and daven, get home about 8:15 and can help my wife for about 20 minutes before I have to leave, drop off the baby, and go to work. I generally leave work between 6:30 and 7:00 and then get to spend some time with my wife (mind you she already put the little kids to sleep). 8:30 I go back to shul and I’m there till 10:15. And that’s days that I’m not traveling. No, I can’t pick up my baby at 2 o’clock for my wife and watch her for two hours until she gets home like my friends can. Let’s not play the ‘the yungerleit are home less’ game. I was home way more when I was in kollel, and I was very makpid on seder.
I agree. This would be nice! How to support ur working husband and still feel the kedusha! How to not be “jealous” that your friends husband is still in kollel but ur husband has to go to work
I agree with all this! I always feel so left out of the kollel lifestyle but this was the best choice for my husband…
Stay Strong why are you writing the letter as if its wrong or bad to go to work especially when ur husband sat till now in kollel go to the nshei event cuz ur husbands providing or trying to for his family is the others learning its all avodas hashem and thank hashem for loosing the programs ksiva vachasima tovah
I agree! I think the attitude towards women whose husbands are working needs to change. I remember someone saying to me once that her husband is not home a lot cause he’s in kollel. I had to explain to her that working men are also not home a lot they leave early in the morning they don’t get a 2 hour break during the day, and they don’t have a three week break in the summer.
I think every situation is different. My husband is in kollel and, truthfully, he’s hardly ever home—even during bein hazmanim, when he’s either still learning or catching up on things he couldn’t get to during the zman (i.e. fixing things around the house, bills, shopping). We’re lucky if we manage one or two family outings then. Many working husbands, on the other hand, are home Sundays and can hire help for what needs to be done.
Because of my work schedule, I really need my husband’s help in the mornings, so he davens early to be available. For wives who aren’t the main breadwinners, it’s often easier to keep a flexible work schedule and manage without that extra pair of hands. But in my case, it often feels like I don’t have my husband around and I don’t have the resources to hire help, shop easily, or pay full price without budgeting carefully.
At the end of the day, though, this isn’t a competition about who has it harder, every woman deserves tremendous respect for all the work she does to run her home and raise her family, whether her husband is working or learning.
You live in fantasy land if you think working people can hire extra help or shop without a budget. There are many kollel men that get a shock when they go to work. They found they could afford less and have less time with the family. Try shopping in a grocery store without EBT. You can’t afford the food!
And by the way when a man works his wife has to work too and no one is home to help her in the morning so she can get out to work on time. A family can’t survive on one man’s income without government programs.
Many working men and families struggle exactly the same as kollel. We can’t afford many things Kollel families can’t. And many times what you thinkthey are affording, is actually major debt for them.
This is a great idea. I wonder if the Hashkafa in the workplace ([email protected]) can arrange this. Or toraso bumnaso
The event for N’shei Hayeshiva is arranged by the Yeshiva. Presumably, if another group needs an event, that group should arrange it, no?
another group? what is this republicans and democrats? left and right? shame on you!! This woman is an amazing woman who stood by her husband and supported him. this Guy no doubt is still kovaya eitim and learns shtark. he is part of my group. he and his choshiveh rebbitzen are part of our group!! If i woud see this woman on the street i would tell my wife to go give this woman a huge hug and tell her how great she is for shouldering a home of torah and mitzvos. she should feel no less as this is her tafkid in this world right now. her husband is a king. she should be extremley proud of him and im sure her children will grow up to be toradikeh bnei torah. How dare we put down a woman who is looking for chizuk. to grow. to be closer to Hashem. she should hold her head up high and know that she is one of us just the same!!
Thank you!!! your comment gave me and all my friends, who are wives of working husbands, lot of chizzuk. Hashem should bentch you with lots of bracha!
As the wife of a working husband I don’t need an event to cheer me on. I’m sorry that you do. Clearly the kollel wives need it too. But most of us are very happy with the lives we lead so we don’t organize speeches. If you feel the need, organize one or just go to all the other speeches in town that talk about getting ready for Yom Tov or other inspirational topics. There are so many.
It’s not about a need. It’s about being excluded from the Torah community.
Thank you for this letter!
I agree with everything except that I am so proud of my husband for trying to support my family and still remaining a Ben torah. And yes we make just enough to get knocked off every program and we sometimes feel unseen when there are constantly programs for kollel people. I’m sure they are struggling and deserve every program but the middle class is constantly overlooked. At the same time I feel incredibly blessed to be part of the middle class and not have to take programs and more or less (sometimes much less) make it through the month.
To the letter writer. I feel for you. Especially in this climate when making ends meet seems impossible.
My husband is in learning, he also works full time. He spends many hours after work learning til late at night.
I attend the Nshei Adirei events because I was told its for everyone. I find it gives chizuk to be supportive of his learning even when it comes at the expense of family time…
He has made more siyumim since he went to work, than when he was in Yeshiva. That’s what a ben torah is! Not when its “easy” but when you’re trying to make a living and still kovei itim…
You need a mindset shift and chizuk. And yes, attend the event, its for everyone…including you.
My husband was also in Kollel many years. It reached a point where I was not able to work and he needed to take over. Bh, we don’t take it for granted but he did okay and is able to support our family. Now, we don’t live in this world to get recognition, you need to grow up and just live for Hashem and your family. Hashem is definitely happy with you and that is all that matters. The reason why there is so much recognition for Kollel wives is because they have a certain mesirus nefesh for the the heilige torah that People who are not learning full time don’t have. That doesn’t mean that you are worth less in Hashem’s eyes. Just we don’t make recognition parties for every person. Just for learning the torah full time, it’s a specific thing that we as Yidden want to show and help those families. There is also tzedaka organizations that can help with people who are struggling financially whether they are learning full time or not. The fact that you don’t get programs is not a reason to complain, programs were made for people in poverty, which many bnei torah are eligible. It’s not made to help struggling people cover their bills, that’s just a fact. And the fact that you think people don’t respect you.. it’s probably not true just when you don’t respect yourself, you will feel that way. Just because we don’t make special appreciation parties for everyone and anyone, that doesn’t mean you are not special. That’s NOT what we came to this world for. It’s very sad that with our very limited life Hashem gave us, that some can waste it worrying about theses things… just serve Hashem with the capabilities He gave you and know that you are Hashem’s beloved child like every other Yid.
Many many years ago there was a great mesiras nefesh to have a husband learning full time. People lived on very little because they couldn’t afford. B”H these days there is so much support for these families. Since there is no support for struggling working families (which it sounds like you’re not since you wrote your husband is able to support your family) there is also a mesiras nefesh in having your husband go to work and be exposed to a scary world while you daven he should be protected and guard his eyes, and while you juggle the family all on your own, limiting your grocery shopping because you can’t afford the food (no ebt), keeping your kids home in the summer because you can’t afford camp (no chs) all the while being told you don’t have the mesiras nefesh of a kollel wife. You write programs are for people in poverty which many bnei torah are. With the programs they are in less poverty than the middle class who do not have the programs which is another mesiras nefesh of having a working husband. To the letter writer: You are amazing!
When my husband was in yeshiva full time, we had no support and were never eligible for food stamps, hud, chs or Medicaid. We worked hard, spent little and were dedicated to the life we lived.
my main point is that there is an Inyan of hachzakas Torah which definitely means putting Kollel wives on a pedestal. Not all mesiras nefesh is financial. And lauding our Kollel wives doesn’t mean they live more or less comfortably financially than their non Kollel neighbor. It’s chizuk in honor of the Torah they are disseminating through their husbands.
lastly, we need to be mature and not insist on recognition for every struggle we face in life. If we need help, there is help available sometimes. But we can’t expect an Asifa to recognize every persons indidivual style of avodas hashem. We are all great and we all work hard and that’s beautiful. That is u related to hachzakas Torah. Talmid Torah keneged kulam. Like it or not but that’s the truth.
In our community today, I wouldn’t say kollel is a sacrifice as much as it is a stage of life. Except for a very small group, it’s something that is done for the first several years of marriage until it gets difficult. Most young kollel families are not struggling more than middle class working are. Tell me, what sacrifices are being made by kollel wives today that are not being made by any frum woman who is struggling financially?
Right off the bat- if you are eligible for CHS because of BMG, you are saving tens of thousands of dollars. Food stamps is also many thousands. Add all of that up and it’s a lot of unofficial income. Somehow many of these people are managing to spend plenty of money on clothes and multiple shaitels and luxury baby carriages. If they are doing that then they are not sacrificing.
We are living in times when extremes are glorified. The centered families aren’t on the radar. But, have no fear for you are living a true Torah lifestyle. See closing words of the Mesilas Yesharim in Perek 26.
The individual here being overshadowed might actually be your husband. Being a Erlecha man out in today’s world is no small feat- add on with his internal expectations of being the sole provider allowing for his wife to be a full time mother. Wishing you much Nachas and support in being the true Eishes Chayil……
listen on torahanytime to the practical judaism series by Rabbi Sholom Ahron Ehrenfeld & YOU WILL GET TREMENDOUS clarity and chizuk
Why are you looking to others for validation? Thousands of once Kollel wives have working husbands. They support their decision and encourage them to learn a shiur in the evenings. Having a husband who is a Ben Torah doesn’t only have to mean sitting in a Bais Medrash day and night. Go join the Adirei Torah event. Appreciate your own mission in life and trust that Hashem is the ultimate judge.
Wait a minute, I’ve been told for years that being in Kollel was a sacrifice. Seems like it’s the easy route, if it wasn’t, this letter wouldn’t exist.
If you view learning in Kollel as being of the utmost importance, there’s no reason why the kollel husband should have more free time to help at home. He should be just as busy (if not more) learning, as the working man is busy working.
The event on Sunday night is for ALL women, whether or not a husband is learning. The inspirational evening will be addressing the women and everyone can apply the message of the evening to their personal lives.
It’s called nshei Adirei hatorah. That tells you all you need to knwo about it’s design and thought process. That is the problem. As a Satmar chosid told me about the Siyum Hashas, It’s not Agudah siyum, it’s Klal Yisroel. They are just the ones bringing everyone together. Adirei hatorah is about one group only.
As a store owner many people ask me for kollel discounts, I tell them that many people learnt in kollel for many years and have no family support and programs, and left kollel to pay their tuitions. I rather give across the board a discount than for kollel people who are not struggling.
p.s this is not the 1980s when kollel people were very poor.
The point of having events and chizuk for the kollel wives is because they are doing something different – not typical & extraordinary. as much as it is normalized it is against the tevah of the world. I think that’s how it started .
But Do people all need a round of applause just for existing?? If that’s the case learn to pat yourself on the back and stop waiting for recognition from others. This is your life . Between you and GD. You know you are doing what you need to do and so it is not a game of who’s more worthy. That’s for nobody to judge.
PS the adirei hatorah event is for all ladies regardless of husbands learning status. Go enjoy , get chizuk and feel good about yourself irrelevant of others.
Stop comparing. It leads to no good.
I wish I could like this comment a few times
-wife of a Ben Torah supporting his family
I didnt read all the comments. No offense and forgive me for saying this but im not sure i understand your letter or the point your trying to make. Rather then saying your are feeling spiritually betrayed he left kollel, your coming across resentful that now your financially struggling because of it. And because of that You make it sound like if he he had a higher paying job you wouldn’t be venting he left kolel to work.