Dear Lakewood Scoop
Thank you so much for stepping up and taking on the Kedusas Yisrael proper dresscode initiative.
My kids came home today with a report that made me realize this initiative needs to expand asap to more than just store employees.
We have a nice bus driver and we truly appreciate that she drives them home safely every day.
But they came barreling into the house horrified at her code of dress (or shall I say “lack thereof”???) which certainly did not befit one that is transporting our little neshamalas…
They described what seems to be weather appropriate for one that is not part of Am Yisrael with way too much exposure for our children.
This. Is. Not. Ok.
I think we all as parents need to respectfully demand that our bus drivers be at the least covered in some sort of sleeves and pants or appropriate skirts. A uniform, even better.
If the store employees must be kept modest, how much more the people that drive our kids daily.
What they do in their own time is their own business. What they do when theyre with our kids, thats our business.
I would like to utilize this also as an opportunity to THANK OUR AMAZING DRIVERS, as my children have been lucky enough to have kind and helpful drivers over the years. I know that not all experiences have been great but there are many great bus drivers and we got to know several of them!
All the best,
Concerned Parent
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I agree that it is a problem, but there is already a difficulty finding bus drivers, and I think this will make it more difficult.
That’s not a good reason. Would you be ok with your kid’s English teacher dressing like that or behaving the way some of these bus drivers behave just because the school was having a hard time finding English teachers?
I didn’t say it was a good reason. I am just saying it is a fact and therefore doubtful that any fix will be implemented.
Yes, I would be.
Reach out to your tireless governor, Mikie Sherrill. She always ready to help the frum community with sensitive issues. She is an energetic natural born leader.
That’s just silly. Do you think Jack C or Josh Gottheimer, if either of them had won the election last year, would’ve been responsive to concerns regarding how bus drivers dress?
More important that they were proper tops — and not insist tbat they wear skirts.
The letter writer was not insisting on skirts. They said pants or skirt. As opposed to Waxman’s shorts which barely has any coverage. This is on the bus company as well as the school. The bus company as an employer must say this is not acceptable, and the school as a client must put their foot down.
The schools have no say at all. Unless the bus company is owned by a frum Jew, they don’t care. The bus companies are employed by the state, not by private industry. The best way to change the system, is for mosdos to acquire their own busses.
Agreed. The schools put so much effort in vetting those who work in the school. It’s a real shame that they seem to not care about who takes them to and from school.
They don’t emply the bus company, nor do they employ the drivers.
Proper tops and long pants could work. You can’t expect them to wear long sleeves but a crew neck top that’s loose fitting. Maybe it’s time to have our own bus drivers?
Yes, you need your own bus drivers your Jewish man to drive your boys and Jewish women to drive the girls and than it’s wouldn’t be a problem. This is America and it’s a free country and they should’ve told them to wear uniform from the start. It’s too late for that now. A black T-shirt and black sweatpants and that the uniform… thermals or a Microsoft jacket
Does the Cheder for example employ these drivers? Do tey decide which bus company gets the routes? The answer to both is NO. Thus, in America under Americas laws, you have very litle recourse to insist on anything.
The drivers are paid by the state, It’s probably a lot more legally complicated to institute dress code than it is in a private business
yes, but you can ask them. Maybe offer some compensation for it. School busses don’t have air conditioning, but you may still be able to do accomplish something. People usually are normal enough to ‘shtell tzu’ to society, but society has to decide what it wants.
Wrong the drivers are paid by the bus company. which is a private buisiness. that being said there is a limit how much we can shelter our children…..
Slow news day A
I think this would be a wonderful opportunity to educate children that while we may see people that look different to us they still deserve respect. While we know we follow a certain decorum, not everyone needs to as well. There are always going to be people in the world not dressed to your level of tznius why not take this opportunity to teach love and not hate?
who’s talking about respect? They’re talking about if something can be done. Don’t steer the topic off point
It’s not off topic, we are unfortunately in galus. If you can get private bussing, then you can insist on tznius. It is healthy for children to grow up knowing we are makpid on tznius and all the reasons why. In addition, not everyone is on the same page and they need to understand how to deal with that. No telling if they will live in a sheltered environment like you would like in the future. Also, where was the outcry on female drivers for bochurim and boys? There should have been a push for heimish frum drivers long before the chasiddish schools started private bussing here. It feels a bit hypocritical that NOW this is a problem.
Drivers are not robots that can be programmed to your specifications. They’re people. If they get forced into a dress code that doesn’t work for them, they can look for another job. If these positions are hard to fill, think twice about unintended consequences.
As if they don’t have enough reasons why they don’t like us let’s add even more.
Quite the opposite, the posuk says they respect us for standing up for Ratzon Hashem. We just indeed have to, and try to find nice ways to bring the message across.
Which posuk?
Great attitude.
If that’s the price for Yiddishe Neshamos
I think this would be a great opportunity to teach children how to respect other even if values dont align. Teaching love rather than hate is what god wants.
Nobody said to hate people, but if a solution can be found it would be amazing.
I think we’ve proven time and again that we are a peace-loving religion of love and values, and anyone who disagrees is looking to find the negative. This is not about not respecting others at all, nor do we need everyone else to share our values. What you do on your life is totally up to you. It’s about the fact that the reality is, modesty forms a large part of our world, in conduct and in dress, and it would be great if drivers can be a bit more conservative around minors–all minors, Jewish and nonJewish alike. that’s all. And, btw, in their speech and the language they use as well. It doesn’t mean that if they curse at cars and students all morning (which her driver does) we should smile and say, ok, let’s love and respect others even if they are not as refined as we try to educate our children to be. I can still ask (which I never had the guts to) respectfully to watch his vocabulary around my child, and to please have a driver cover herself properly around my young children.
No one said not to ask. But, who are you asking? The schools? The drivrs? The bus company? The state who issues the contracts? Which if any of them have any say or ability to enforce anything?
Let’s swap you can have my frum private van driver who is a tzanuah and charges over $200 per month to drive my child who lost bussing and I’ll take your immodestly dressed driver who busses your kid for free.
That is warped priorities!
This is what most frum out of town schools do who do not have free bussing from the state. There are designated carpool lanes in the school’s parking lot for parents to pick up and parents arrange a carpool schedule in the beginning of the year. Teachers can drive kids to and from school for $200 a month. Chassidim in Boro Park have their own bus companies and drivers and therefore don’t have to deal with Tznius issues. It’s a matter of priority of Torah values vs convenience of life.
Many non chasidish yeshivos in Broolkyn have their own busses as well. Those that don’t, get to choose a bus company and hav a private contract. That also gives them some baylos on the matter.
Coming from Brooklyn, I never was able to insist on what the drivers from the city wore.
Because it used to be government controlled. When did you leave Brooklyn? Currently it’s more locally controlled.
maybe a dress code for so called frum ladies shopping in our supermarkets would also be appropriate
Anything else that you think could use improvement in our community besides tznius?
maskim
go live on an island if you cant even tolerate “frum” jews. if you’re choosing here and you dont like it, at least dont put them down in their face.
Working on our own characters and middot > policing the choices of others in an effort to get the world to conform to our minority viewpoints
Would have such an attitude if it was your father who was being publicly disgraced?!
Is tznius a minority viewpoint? Love how all these denial ppl deflect everything to middos when they get uncomfortable about ppl talking about Halacha.
These halachos apply to gentiles?
Just realize, she is sitting on a school bus all day, no A/C just window and fan.
Almost all buses have AC
Folks, you forget we live in golus. We don’t own this country. An ayno yehudi is an ayno yehudi.
I am surprised that so many people seem to be ok with a barely dressed driver driving their kids.
It is horrifying.
A loose tee-shirt to the elbows and pants, by all means. But tank and shorts? Or anything in that category, I would think we need to better than that for our kids. We cant fully shelter them from the world at large but they shouldnt have to have exposure to this on their daily bus route to and from yeshiva or school!
A uniform tee-shirt is a fantastic idea for the bus companies. Or a light and airy button down can work too.
But I most certainly dont want my kids on a bus with a scarcely dressed driver.
I dunno about you.
Your right its not ok, but no 1 wants to be a bus driver, if your willing to step up u can save hundreds of neshamas everyday, get a couple of friends to be bus drivers u get even more zchus, thats the only way it will change
No one is ok. Just looking at thenfacts. You can drive your child yourself, and avoid the entire problem. Or pay an addition thousand dollars minimum in tuition, so the mosdos can afford their own busses. It’s called looking at therealities, and recognizing what the options are. What legal recourse do you have with a state controlled bussing system and drivers highered by gentiles, who have absolutely zero care and concern for our ideaologies.
You can always drive your kids yourself.
How about the parents chipping in and offering a monetary bonus to drivers who dress in a “uniform”?
Ah! Little kids , it doesn’t matter . If it would be bachurim or 7th graders and up than it would be a problem. But little boys: “don’t drei a kuhp” ein duvur soof.
וואס ווייסט דו צו זאגן א דיעה
This is happening because WE are lacking in this critical area. We know it. It’s not a married women’s issue alone. Married men are obligated to convey the severity to their wives and daughters of this matter. Every Rav knows it’s one of the biggest issues, but everybody is simply embarrassed to speak about it publicly- so we opt for less confrontational and dramatic topics….
The question is- why would an otherwise well meaning bus driver not sense how her presentation is not an appropriate standard within our community. The answer seems to be a rather sad awakening- she sees the wigs and tights cloths being worn and has no reason to suspect modesty is a thing around here. But only by the Amish and Muslim community, but not in the “Ir Hatorah”. We can talk about Torah and Torah and more Toran. The Torah does not find its place where אברייהו דגלוי עריות is tolerated.
In muslim communities that use state controlled bussing they have the same problem. The only difference is, that in America today a muslim will scream islamophobia, and everyone will do waht they say. But when it comes to Jews, the gentile world doesn’t care.
Maybe they recognize that Jews are more reasonable and less demanding/controlling than militant Muslims? Isn’t that a compliment?
No. It’s the fake islamophobia. nothing else. Look at the olitical climate of the world. Don’t be an ostrich.
Why not? It’s geshmak. I get to keep my head buried in the sand. Very relaxing. Try it some day.
I find that in general, non-jewish females are receptive and even appreciative of the idea of modesty. Even without mandating it, a request to keep certain parts covered where possible can go a long way.
Go ask LTSA and let TLS know what happens.
Okay a few separate issues here.
1. First of all let’s talk practically about how this could even be implemented. For a frum-owned company they could technically put in a dress code. Question is, would that prevent them from being able to recruit drivers? It’s already an issue that they can’t find enough drivers. Keep in mind that the school buses are not air conditioned and it’s really hot so it’s understandable why drivers would want to dress the way they do. For the rest of the companies we really don’t have any say in this.
2. Also it would matter whether it’s older boys in Buchurim versus everyone else where this wouldn’t be such an issue.
3. We are in Golus and we need to remember that and we need to stop doing Aiva, especially now that we are under so much scrutiny. This is an example of possible Aiva. Remember that you can break Shabbos for Aiva.
Spoken by a Ruv in 1861 America.
Perhaps we should take heed & listen.
“we feel that we are exalted to the very gates of heaven in respect to our advantages and national excellencies; but let us take heed that we incur not the reproach with which our divine teacher Moses once rebuked our people, — “Jeshurun waxed fat and kicked,” — let us take heed that we grow not dizzy with the height of prosperity to which we have attained, that we reel not and stagger not on the summits of freedom, that the very loftiness of our happy state be not the means of giving impulse to our downfall, by which we might lose forever our honor and our privileges.”
Enough is enough! We are destroying our children.. We are teaching them that they are strong and resilient by not looking at their bus driver who is wearing a short sleeve tee. The boy feels like yosef hatzadick every time he goes onto the bus. He is also like Yosef Hatzadick because he was not nichshol in looking at his class mates camera that didn’t have a sticker from TAG. This is latterly making our Boucharim crazy. They don’t understand what they are feeling and they are so confused. his is the cause of the depression and anxiety this Dor is experiencing.
The cleaning ladies have a uniform. I doubt the lady drivers would mind. They won’t have to worry, what to wear. A closed front top, even if the sleeves are short. You don’t expect them to wear covering the elbow in the heat.
We’re in Golus.
Even with the rich guys having their private jets and can fly in and out of Israel as rockets fly all over the place?
If tznius on summer buses is a concern, the tzibur should also push for AC buses and heat-safe uniforms as pikuach nefesh and kavod habrios. A driver’s alertness and health affect the children and everyone on the road.