I am going to be slightly all over the place with this letter, but I will do my best to put down all my thoughts in a somewhat organized manner.
This past week we learned that sadly a high end restaurant has gone out of business. To say the least, any time someone loses their parnassah, it is awful. The owners and investors lost a lot of money and my heart goes out to them and Hashem should give them the strength and ability to recover.
However, I think this opens a conversation as to how businesses determine their prices, and whether the business model was viable to begin with. An email was put out by one of the restaurant’s vendors saying that an invoice that went viral shortly after the restaurant opened led the public to believe that the prices were too high and the restaurant owner said they were never able to recover from that. I fail to understand how such a statement makes sense.
Take me for example- I saw the invoice in April of 2023 after a friend sent it to me and I said I will never walk into that place and I never did. However, what steered me away was not the $7,000 total at the bottom of the bill as the vendor’s email implied was the cause. What steered me away was the cost of the line by line items. How can you justify charging $16 for a bottle of water?!? $160 for a 20 oz steak, $360 for a 40 oz steak, $30-$40 for a dessert… I’m sorry, I’m not going into a restaurant and dropping $700 when I can go to one of the other establishments in town and spend less than half of that! When the prices were determined, who was the owner targeting?
My impression when I saw the invoice was, “the owner said I will make the items any price I want, and people will pay them.” I, however, get turned off when that’s the impression I get (even if that wasn’t the owner’s intent), and would never walk into such a place.
If I wouldn’t have seen that invoice, maybe I would’ve walked in once, and that would’ve been it.
(Or I would’ve checked the online menu first, seen the prices and never would’ve booked.)
This brings me to part two.
How do businesses determine their prices? The short answer is supply and demand.
A few weeks ago someone wrote a letter to TLS complaining about the Chutzpah of his barber charging $35 for a haircut that he spends 4 minutes on. I think the comments on that letter got it right on that one. Many people said they went out and bought a haircut machine, and started giving their kids haircuts. They said maybe they didn’t look as spiffy, but it worked. When they had a wedding or family Simcha, they went to the professional barber and spent the money.
This one was simple, the barber charges $35 because he can. You don’t like it, buy a machine and do it yourself.
Let’s take a clothing store for example that sells high end clothing and the cheapest suit is $1,000. That clothing store is targeting a very specific crowd. They are hedging their bets that there are enough people that will shop there willing to spend the money for quality. If they bet wrong and there aren’t, they will either have to change their business model or they will close down.
Similarly, I think the restaurant in conversation may it be intentionally or not, was hedging a similar type of bet. They felt that there were enough people in town willing to spend a large amount of money for the “experience” they were providing. They bet wrong, but to blame the public for that, I don’t think is fair.
But I want to end with this. Until now my entire letter was discussing businesses opening and being designed to target a specific minority of the population of this very large beautiful town we live in. I know many of my friends would not be looking to drop $700 on a dinner, $1,000 on a suit. (Maybe the $35 on a haircut they would…)
However, there are businesses providing services that people don’t have a choice. Let’s take the food business, we all have to eat. Some people have mental health needs and need a professional on a weekly basis. For these businesses, I think as a community we have to bend the rules of supply and demand a bit. Look, I cut back on my meat purchasing as $30 a pound is starting to make me feel a bit choked, but I don’t have to eat meat. But food prices in general have gone up (to be fair, not just in the kosher market, but all over). If a supplier can make a fine living charging 10% less, something that will benefit all of us and he can still make a nice living, is it too much to ask for him to bring home a little less and not get rich just because he can?
Or a therapist who’s helping a couple with their Shalom Bayis. The couple isn’t going because they have a choice. They can’t do it on their own. One of the biggest causes of Shalom Bayis is financial stress, but the therapist the couple finds themselves sitting in front of is charging $240 for the session. Yes, he’s talented, yes it’s supply and demand, but you are supposed to be a public servant in a sense, helping people live a better life, is it really necessary to get rich on a couple, adding to their stress when they are clearly suffering enough?
In short what I’m saying is yes, if you are providing a “luxury business” and trying to get rich doing so, then please go ahead and try your luck. Hope you hedge your bets correctly, and there are enough people willing to spend on what you provide.
But if you are providing a “necessity business” please understand you are a public servant and do what you can to make things more affordable and help the Klal.
M.F.
TLS welcomes your letters by submitting them to [email protected]
Maybe just maybe there was Lashon Hora/motzi shaim ra that put this restaurant out of business?? You don’t like the prices don’t go there period. You could afford the luxury and like good food go and enjoy. Different strokes for different folks. But to spread the invoice and be motzi shaim ra on a business to the point you basically closed it down???? Remember we all ha e to answer after 120 make sure you don’t do anything that will burn you up there!!
Yes prices across the board have gone up everyone has to learn to budget a little more and decide for themselves how they want to spend their $$$!!
The prices were a secret?
@Yankele
It sounds like the invoice, for how much they paid for their supply, went public. That’s private business documents.
I feel terrible for the people who lost money on this business. I wish them much hatzlacha in business and money.
I also feel terrible for the person who was unjustly blamed for sending out the receipt. Someone intentionally decided to price the water exuberantly high. To blame someone for showing a receipt in disgusting. The receipt didn’t hurt your business! The ridiculous prices that Lakewoods never seen is what hurt it. Every single person who blamed the “receipt leaker” should apologize. He did nothing wrong.
It actually would be Loshon Horah to spread around a receipt if it would be looked down upon by the viewers. He did something very wrong without even realizing it. Let’s all be more careful in the future.
In an extremely upscale business the high prices are the whole point. You specifically want people to see the prices and think wow must be choshuv. Don’t say it’s loshan horah because it backfired. Maybe the owner said lashon horah by printing the menu with $16 water bottles
Is it loshon hora to literally say the prices that a store charges?
Not sure about that. Their prices are public info anyways.
All I can say is oy oy oy.
How dare someone spread around an invoice with the intention of bad mouthing a business. Look where that led.
I’m focusing on this point because I recently started learning sefer chofetz chaim and it has changed my life and my sensitivity towards speaking loshon horah.
Pls start learning it now if u don’t. And let it be a zchus for the business owner and a reparation for what was caused.
As an aside, I ate at the restaurant and the food was delicious and the prices fair.
Hashem yeshalem chesronam
Fair lol, don’t rub your riches in the majorities face. Most people don’t pay $16 for water
It’s all up to us. 35.00 for a man ‘s hair cut? There are excellent barbers in Lakewood that work from their houses and charge 10.00. Expensive clothing? Shop around. Some local stores or department stores don’t charge 1000.00 for a suit. Etc, etc.
Which rabbi has said it is loshon harah to show a receipt from a store?
Rabbi Yisroel Mayer Kagan is his name.
If it will reflect negatively on the business and people will see it in a negative light, than it’s Loshon Hora and you’re not allowed to say it.
The example usually given with regard to this is saying that a store is overpriced. This is generally taken in a negative light by people, and therefore to say it is Loshon Hora.
Loshon Hora is also when a person didn’t say anything, but just made an expression, hand motion, winked, or in this case, sent a picture of a receipt.
You can verify this by learning A Lesson A Day.
Aside from that, if this was your brother or sister’s restaurant, and that receipt went viral, how would you feel? Pretty upset I’m sure that someone is ruining your relative’s business and turning away customers. That is exactly what Loshon Hora does.
Very nice to blame the person who sent out a picture of his receipt instead of the one who priced the items.
My wife and I went to this restaurant not knowing any history behind it – i.e. invoice referred to. We did not order much since the prices were over the top, but we did very much enjoy the food and the experience. The waitstaff told us that they were hoping to reach “Michelin” status which is a rating given to exceptional restaurants. It was exciting to be part of their journey towards this goal.
To achieve Michelin status you need one thing, and one thing only, which is good food. You do not need a building that cost millions of dollars that will in turn cause you to overcharge customers so you could make back your investment. Most places in the world that have Michelin status are literally holes in the wall compared to this place, but with amazing food.
What on earth? This is what you post publicly after someone is going through tough times ?
I feel very bad for them, but when that invoice went viral they had a choice. They could and should have responded about their restaurant and the facts. The problem is they were way overpriced and that was at the root of their problem. And when they finally dropped Their prices they dint take out ads letting people know about it, they relied on word of mouth and a couple of hotshots to spread the word.
But the word never reached little shots like me. Had it, I would have given it a try.
Takeaway: When you are in a saturated market and have bad pr, don’t. Lame anyone but yourself if you don’t effectively promote your product, business, store.
Very well said all around
so nice that anonymous letter writers decide who gets to give up for the klal
The restaurant business is known to be difficult. In general people who blame others for their difficulties will always have difficulties and will always have someone to blame.
Regarding the end of the original letter about people charging less for necessities, I think necessities are somewhat subjective. How many people would need less therapy if they would learn the “path of the just” or similar.
I’m not saying they wouldn’t need the therapy, but perhaps fewer sessions.
Nobody pays for more therapy sessions then they need. Therapy isn’t like buying ice cream where you choose a small or a large portion. Rav Shlomo Wolbe would say Mussar is for emotionally healthy people, not meant for mental illness.
Mussar was never intended to treat mental illness & will never replace good therapy when needed.
I don’t get the commotion over the $16 for water . And if I go to another fancy place that charges $8 for the same water that I can buy in the dollar store that is justified? (Now it’s $1.25. So ok) The answer is that you are paying for the ambiance and fancy luxury . That includes waiters , fancy furnishings and interior designs etc. This place was fancier than the $8 place so it needs to charge for its investments too. I’d like to see people start complaining about why things need to be so fancy ? Including grocery stores with uncle moshe shows and suit stores that look like 5th Ave. That’s where this has to stop . Once customers want the fancy stuff the owner wil need to charge for that . The issue isn’t the price of water the issue is the hefty price of furnishing fancy restaurants because us consumers are so into gashmus and living ostentatiously. We forgot that we are just travelers on this world .
Excellent letter!
I would add one more point. Too many businesses nowadays go all out on things that don’t matter, like a significant amount of decor, well beyond what is necessary. Like in restaurants, groceries, and many retail shops. Even high end office space. Well, obviously those costs get wrapped into the prices, so now the prices are too high for the consumers. Then the owners and investors cry that they can’t keep the prices affordable and they can’t turn a profit.
This overspending needs to come down, and it will allow the prices to come down. Then they will start seeing more profit. It’ll be a win-win.
I would like to repeat a comment I got from a store owner in town when I asked them if a specific service would be able to be done on his part (Even though it was not the regular) He said “sure whatever you want we try to take care.” I asked him why he is being so forthcoming is he kidding? He said no, the store I run is really a continuation
of the store my grandfather opened in a different town. When my grandfather opened this business he said when I open the store in the morning I’m here to make a Kiddush Hashem (Of course it has to be profitable because I need to take something home for my family) People need things and I’m here to service them, that’s what I’m here to do day by day. Of course, if I don’t charge, I will not be able to do this and if I don’t make enough to support my family, I would neither. But why am I here? Number 1 is the service people.
I know what is this? “I’m here to do the same. This is the service that I could do for you and I’m more than happy to do it.” Is what the story owner answered me! Good for him and I’m sure everybody will love doing business with a person like that.
The question with businesses Thank you is, what came first the chicken or the egg?
Are you here to take? Or are you here to give?
If you are taker in essence, you deserve to be close down as sooner or later you will be closed down.
You are a giver? chances are you gonna be very successful? # 1, in giving #2 making a nice livelihood for your family?
In regard to therapist charging heavy money.There are many great clinics out there that accept insurance. The therapist is a private pay for a crowd that could pay. As long as there are viable options this is hardly a complaint. If it’s a specific disorder that very few can deal with I agree there should be some reduced rates. Many do offer that but not ALL
The clinics generally do not offer marriage counseling. In addition, Clinics generally don’t give you a choice which therapist to see & Relief doesn’t refer people to clinics. This makes it an unviable option for many people who need an experienced counselor. Many of those going to private therapists cannot afford to pay but do so because they have no other choice.
Please get to know your clients financial situation because it will help you with your ability to counsel them. However, you might start feeling guilty taking money they cannot afford to pay & then you’ll also need therapy.
Incorrect period! Many therapists in lakewood clinics such as ……that do marriage counseling. There are great supervision programs in clinics by master therapists. Mordechai Weinberger has a clinic that takes insurance in the monsey area. As for relief not referring to a clinic, u need to ask a clinic that is supervised by this provider is it safe to go to. Not every clinic is great. I thing personally its an excuse not to go for help.
Many of the therapists in these clinics are young and have not yet had the experience needed in the field. The insurance companies pay very little and the sessions tend to be shorter for that reason as well. The success of these clinics financially is to move patients in and out as quickly as possible. This allows for more billed appointments daily. When one sees a private doctor, a pediatrician with their young child, one likes the doctor to know them and their child to properly care for them. Just examples, do your own research before taking your loved one to a clinic for any type of care. In particular something that falls into the category of a specialty.
I am just so sorry for the owners. We all make mistakes. But to lose so much money after so much blood sweat and tears must be very painful. They should be matzliach in whatever they do next.
To everyone commenting on the spreading of “The Invoice.” Please keep in mind that it was originally sent out by the customer, and this is where I go into personal opinion; the invoice was shared to flex how much they spent. Because of that personal opinion, the person knew it was going to get shared and spread.
I Dnt really Kno why it didn’t work out and I never ate there either, I will just add my 2 cents,
I don’t think they misread the fancy clientele of Lakewood, I think there were other reasons ( again I don’t really have facts to back this up it’s just a thought)
But I will say that I work in a different Buisness in Lkwd and we have more expensive items and less, and Baruch hashem there are plenty of people dropping nice money just like that!!!
And a lot of them when they hear about the more expensive stuff they just have to have it,
A lot of people just want to feel good about them selves and have a feeling like they could spend a lot bec They work hard , whether they can actually afford it or not,
So I don’t think their mistake was the prices I personally think it was the location
I feel if they would have opened 15-20 min out Lakewood, they would see more customers
I personally Dnt wanna get in my car and drive 4 min down the road (at night) to a plaza I drive by everyday. to go out for a special occasion or a nice date night with my wife, I want it to feel like an outing. and not feel like I’m still down the block from the babysitter…
Definitely the most spot-on comment in this thread.
Thats definitely a point for me too.
I agree! the receipt very likely attracted certain clientele who like going to the very best/expensive, but most likely also chased away a bunch rich of people who want to think they dont waste their money.
Fact is a high end store also closed down a few months ago – and there were no receipts going around – They both had a location issue…
No one is mentioning that the $16 water actually was for unlimited refills.
🤷🏻
I have been there twice and really enjoyed the experience!! The prices were comparable to the other high end places in town. Thought the food was tasty and different. The ambiance was perfect and our bill for two people was what we would expect from a high end restaurant. It’s not a weekly event, for us it’s a once or twice a year event so we are ok with the price. Sad it’s closing. Owner seemed like a nice hardworking Erlich yid.
Regarding Therapists fees that are way over the top.
Everyone should be guided by Rabbi Ben Tzion Shaffier’s book “10 REALLY DUMB MISTAKES THAT VERY SMART COUPLES MAKE”.
Don’t wait till trouble start brewing, start off married life with studying his practical guidance.
What makes you say that therapist fees are over the top?
Do you know how long it takes to become a qualified therapist?
How many years of unpaid internships, low pay entry jobs, and expensive trainings it takes to make it to a point where you can command a $175-225/session fee so you can finally start paying down the debt you’ve accrued during all those years of want?
And even at that point it’s not all sunshine and lollipops either. You still have significant overhead just like any other business.
how is it the restaurants fault that you didnt look at prices before? the reason they are charging so much money, is because people like you are paying!
If you’ve actually seen websites of most high end kosher restaurants, you’d know that they don’t list any of their prices online. Saying “How is it the restaurants fault you didn’t look at prices before?” is a moot point when the only way to find out their prices is to actually go there in person.
I’m not really fit to comment on this topic as I am from the plebeians who has difficulty with justifying the cost of picking up supper at Glatt Bite. This is not because I cannot afford to, but because money has value to me.
I have long questioned whether there is an Onaah question in such restaurants.
I’m just personally uncomfortable with fancy places. A while back I went to a restaurant (upscale dairy) with some business associates (they invited me and were paying) and when I saw what my bowl of pasta cost I nearly choked.
If upscale restaurants A,B, and C all charge $6 for a soft drink is that considered “yatza hashaar” for soft drinks at upscale restaurants or since its boutique service is there no market to compare with?
You seriously need to loosen up and learn how to be much more chilled.
I can’t speak to his oonah question. But his point about valuing money first just going out to eat twice a week because you have the money and are a foodie, that point is well taken. The ostentatiousness has gotten out of hand.
Does anyone remember when the original Roshei Yeshivas of BMG wouldn’t allow pizza shops in town? Look how far we have come since then. Perhaps the message should be that the gashmiyus in Lakewood should tone down just a bit and remember what Lakewood was meant to be.
Yes. Reb Aaron ZATZAL wanted a small makom. A makom where you learned for a few years, then went out ant taught others. Notice how not one of Reb Aaron talmidim stayed in L:akewood for life. They all went out either opened their own mosdos, joined other mosdos or went into business.
So many opinions based on what?!
Life isn’t a guessing game. We have the Holy Torah and those who toil in it to provide guidance. Yes, the town ב״ד has a right and an obligation to regulate prices for necessities. This specific restaurant seems to be somewhat of a not straight forward situation. A competent Rav’s guidance alone counts.
There is no town Bes Din. It’s not a shtetl in Europe circa 1820. Today everyone has their own Rav and their own Daas. Hopefully they believe in Daas Torah as well. But to believe that the majority will follow a single Bes din, when you have a melting pot of different communities, shows a total lack of understanding of people.
Sad that instead of focusing on where they went wrong in their business, they are now trying to blame their failure on some random people. So the reason the business didn’t make it is because some people sent around the prices and not because the prices were actually too high?
Funny how that works. If it’s loshon hora to mention their prices… why is it ok to charge so much? But if they thought the prices were fine and were actually intentionally inflating them to be exclusive… then they should have been thankful for people to mention their “exclusivity”. Pick a lane people.
If you followed social media on the receipt, then you could continue to follow social media on the story behind the receipt. It was an employer who wanted to show appreciation to his employees and knew the owner of the restaurant personally. He therefore ordered several of the same foods, hence the huge bill.
I don’t know any of whatever backstory this establishment had but I was very upset to see this place had closed. My husband and I went out there a few months back for a special occasion. The food was delicious, unique and the prices what we would expect from a high end restaurant. When you go to an expensive place you expect to spend. Whether or not you spent $16 on water and rolled your eyes (we probably just took tap water if we couldn’t stomach $16- honestly it didn’t make enough of an impact one way or another since I can’t recall) that’s part and parcel of the experience. It’s not causing anyone to walk out or not return. This is a very hard lesson we should all take to heart how loshon hara can cause serious harm. This place was set up for success- there’s definitely the clientele to support it, but the negative publicity it received at the onset probably did it in. It’s shame on everyone and we need to think before we simply talk or share.
I am from somewhat out of town and watching this back and forth I just need to let you all know that we all find this very comical and sad. Forget all the “issues” being talked about , how did we get here? The last dor and the hundreds before them had to live with real issues. How quickly we forget….
This.
I work in the luxury business world ( not jewish or in Lakewood), and I am involved in pricing.
What people don’t understand, is that when there is an insane price on a line item, it is usually in order to keep the business operating at a reasonable margin.
So if, say on a private yacht in the Bahamas I charge $1,000 for the bottle of wine that costs $50, the charge isnt for the bottle – its for the cost of getting it to the obscure private location, probably by helicopter and that means a vendor who is also taking a cut.
The same thing with a very upscale restaurant. I don’t know the model – but my guess if they where aiming to a Michelin star that they where paying staff much much more then other establishments in the city. They invested a ton of money in the physical space as well….
I could never afford more then appetizers there, but the attitude that they where ripping people off was wrong.
People understand pricing very well, and as you said, insane pricing is “required” to keep a business operating at a reasonable margin. The real mistake of the owners here was that they invested $5 million into an insane edifice in the middle of Lakewood, which then became their “justification” for charging the insane prices. The mistake was that they misread the room and assumed that everyone would be happy to pay their insane prices, and at the end of the day, there were just not enough people interested in paying these insane prices and they were left holding the $5 million dollar bag. If they were aiming for a Michelin star, and their food was truly that good, they could have done the same without biting off more than they could chew on that monstrosity of a building.
According to Google 80% of restaurants fail within the 1st 5 years. I have trouble believing this has anything to do with the receipt. Soes the owner have a proven track record of operating other restaurants successfully?
I don’t believe the receipt would bother anyone who would eat there.
When I saw the receipt picture, I didn’t say “what a ripoff”, I said not for me. I laso haven’t been at the other high end restaurants in town.
I stopped in there back in September.
I came out of an appointment it was 11:30am and I needed to stop in the bank before I get on to the GSP to go to Boro Park. I needed a bathroom desperately But that fancy plaza had no pizza shops I can stop into. So I see 5 employees unlock the door of a fancy restaurant and walk in so I parked and knocked on their door and a nice Latino employee let me in and showed me where the restroom is. Before I left I took out a $5 bill and offered to give it to him and he refused to take it, so I told my wife I had been to a beautiful restaurant and we need to go there one day how much costs a meal there $50? My said to add a “0” ($500) .
Anyway it’s nothing new. Restaurants are the worst business to go into. Over 80% don’t make it. The owner(s) should recover their losses and be matzliach b’karov .
Same thing happened to a restaurant in Forked River, believe. The owner sold to a new owner who immediately raised prices. Customers complained to the owner and wait staff. The new owner didn’t lower prices & is now out of business. You have to know the people in the area. You can’t open a Ferrari dealership in an low income community.
People can give all the reasons they want, it could be the mismanagement, a lot of competition (tomahawk, salt, lamppost, the loft, etc.), maybe the market it saturated , could be lack of marketing strategy, food and experience were not equal cost, or just an expensive boondoggle that was doomed to fail.
There is literally a high end streak house around the corner which is doing well.
mother of a therapist here
As far as the therapist charging 250$…
Do you know how many years of making nothing or very little you need to do before even making a viable parnasa as a therapist?
Years of unpaid internships often out of town,50-150k in student debt, supervion, emotionally very intense, extremely high burn out rate….the 250 you are paying is for that…
If you think being a therapist is such a lucrative and easy field…become a therapist
hey, why not make it now to a UPSCALE, wedding hall,
I just wanted to comment as a therapist. We understand that therapy is not a choice we would be the first ones to tell you that! It really is a problem that so many people cannot afford to go for the therapy they desperately need. However, we too have expenses and being a therapist is our career. This is the way we pay our expenses (which are just as high for us as for everyone else!) support our husbands in learning, and pay our children’s tuition. No therapist I know is getting rich from doing therapy. On the contrary, we are putting in so much emotional effort and energy and getting paid just enough to cover our expenses. Yes, as therapists we are providing a much needed service to the community, but it is also our career. We cannot offer this service for free. I do think someone should open an organization that helps pay for therapy the same way people help pay for medical treatment.
Just eat at home. Problem solved.
If people are willing to pay lots of dough for restaurants – why do they complain when medical professionals charge a lot? Let them go to clinics.
We live in a backwards Frum society.
Prioritize life, Not luxury!
regarding therapist, if your looking into make a nice easy living, therapy isn’t for you, not a lot of money there-maybe 5 years down the road, you’ll start making nicely
Try minimum 10myears.
its not like hes telling us something new. we all knew before this the prices of the eatery. the wouldnt charge these prices if we didnt pay them!