Dear TLS,
I’ve been thinking about this for a while now, and I’d like to share some thoughts.
It’s no secret that in many of our industries and communities, there’s a trend that’s deeply troubling. We’ve become so focused on getting the best deal, the lowest price, or shaving off just a little more from a vendor’s margin — that we sometimes forget there’s a human being on the other side of that transaction. A fellow Yid, or a hard-working person trying to make a parnassah with dignity.
We know exactly how it happens. We push harder on negotiations, we shop around for the cheapest options, we demand discounts or use leverage to cut corners — often with full awareness that the vendor isn’t making enough to justify the time, effort, and risk they’re investing. And we justify it by saying, “That’s how the market works,” or “Business is business.”
This plays out in many different forms- pick an industry. Many are quietly struggling, and they’re too proud to say it. Some of these same people we would gladly give Tzedakah to if we knew they were having a hard time. But we don’t let them make a normal, respectful profit in the first place.
Then, with the money we “saved,” we feel good about giving Tzedakah elsewhere. But something about that feels backwards. Chazal say the highest level of Tzedakah is helping someone earn their own living. Isn’t that exactly what we’re preventing when we cut the legs out from under someone’s business?
We’re not talking about overpaying or throwing away money. We’re talking about fair profit. About recognizing that just because we can pressure someone to lower their price doesn’t mean we should. There’s a value in letting another person succeed. There’s a kind of Tzedakah in saying, “I want you to do well.”
We’re better than this. We know better. And it’s time we live up to that knowledge.
Let’s stop racing to the bottom. Let’s uplift one another by doing business with respect, generosity, and a bit of empathy. That might be the most powerful Tzedakah we can give — not in the pushka, but in the way we conduct ourselves every day.
With sincerity and hope.
TLS welcomes your letters by submitting them to [email protected]
There is a common saying by many in business ” Going cheap may be a costly mistake”
if you would be more explicit in what industry you operate, it would be more clear what you are talking about. Most probably this article refers to business wolrd that average person has no shaychus to.
on consumer level, i don’t think i have to buy 179$ shoes and $150 dollar dress to help someone make a decent living, the only reason why jewish stores can charge that is because people are ridiculous and they expectations are sky high. Yes, its tough, and ask yourself -do you raise your employees salaries so your business would go in debt? i personally never went on 1 vacation in my life, I am very happy that you work hard to provide for your family, but if price is cheaper in Walmart, i will shop in walmart. My kids are my priority over someones big house, and someones else kids sleepaway camp, while my kids are working every summer.
💨
A-The article doesn’t say you have to by expensive things
B- I don’t think you can negotiate for shoes.
I believe the article is referring to the service industry where it’s normal to ask for free upgrades/ bargain.
Many people in these industries feel that their only way to get a job is to give in to the free upgrade requests.
As a trade contractor I see this all the time. If the article is referring general contractors/ developers who give tzedaka but push their trade contractors to work for tight margins, I agree with the writer.
So.. many grocery store owners in Lakewood have serious real estate portfolios. While they have the right to earn as much as they can, it comes on the back of thousands who can barely make ends meet. Then they charge for bags (which are sponsored by advertising), for delivery (instituted during covid and still going strong). Unsure how this situation is fair to the Tzibur at large.
In Parashat Vayishlach, Jacob returns alone across the Yabbok River to retrieve small jugs he had forgotten (Genesis 32:25). The Sages (Chullin 91a) explain that the righteous value all their possessions because they see them as gifts from God.
Jacob’s action teaches us a powerful lesson: one should not waste money or resources, no matter how small. Everything we have has purpose and potential, and should be treated with gratitude and care.
Do you mean that pushing someone to work for a few dollars less is like not wasting money ? That would force you to believe that the service provider is trying to rip you off. Why hire someone that is trying to rip you off?
But like, the simple middle class are being taken advantage of from all sides. Every price increase gets pushed on the consumer, bag charges, inflation, these are just a few examples. When do we get a break. If we can’t even shop for deals and try and to negotiate the already berserk prices on everything then what’s the end game plan? So no one will buy anything cause no one will be able to afford Anyrhing.
I assume ur a business owner just complaining about ur bottom line, but what about everyone else?
As I was reading this letter I got a text that a customer sent me $$ it was $100 more then my price I sent hom a message asking how I can send it back and his response was that it is appreciation that I came so quickly and took care of it.
So there are peoplelike that
Mi kamcha yisroel
This is at the heart of capitalism, which is a deeply flawed system. If you can’t compete, you fail.
What about the businesses raking in millions ripping off all their customers which unfortunately don’t always have another choice. But then, they give a nice big donation to the local org. – who is supporting the people they’ve been ripping off on a daily basis.
How about stores/businesses charge what they need instead of overcharging so they can become a gevir and support the local org?
What business doesn’t have a competitor that leaves you without a choice ?
I could not agree more. Why are certain products; fish & produce to name a few so much more expensive in kosher stores when noting is required to make them kosher?
As a community we are taken advantage of in several major ways. Just unsustainable! Did you know that on Amazon a sheitel (made by the same Chinese manufacturers) cost $200-$300. Does it make sense that a simple black, felt hat costs over $300? How does Clolov Yisrtoel cheese cost 3 times the price of national brands?
Regarding wigs on Amazon, after the Indian hair issue of tikroves avoda zara, you have to have a verified, supervised kosher source for the hair. As for cholov yisroel products, the efforts and expenses of production certainly warrant the prices charged. They are hashgocha heavy items that need supervision from start to finish. People tend to think that only meat and poultry require expensive Hashgacha, but that is not the case. Be grateful for the bounty and variety of kosher food and Jewish amenities available in the tri-state area. Ask those who live out of town, or even those who live in Europe or Australia. When they visit NY or NJ, they revel in the rich selections of food and clothing we just take for granted.
As a Mashgiach Kashrus I can tell you point blank that the fees that are charged dont at all reflect the end price. Meats and Chiken are different because there are many that need to be thrown away. A pizza store here in town was raised to 500 from 350 a month. His prices were raised 60- 80 Percent. Let’s be fair. The national company’s pay a lot more for hasgacha than heimeshe ones. Don’t believe me call the ou. They are expensive yet competitive. Its the Heimeshe company’s that charge much higher because they know we want a higher standard.
I certainly commend you for being a mashgiach, it is a klei kodesh position. However, the added cost of Cholov Yisroel is many times greater that the amount they are paying the mashgiach. (maybe the are somethings i didn’t know, if that is the case please tell me how to apply for a mashgiach job). The reason kosher food is so expensive is because the aggressive sales tactics used by companies, using professional sales teams to push the products into tight store shelf space, and ultimately down customers throats.
Very few sheitels are not from India, Buying from a frum sheitel macher for $2,000 will not help.
This is capitalism. What don’t you understand. Has anyone ever explained capitalism to you, say in a HS economics class?
If you know that the business is struggling then I agree. The problem is you almost never know which businesses are successful and which ones are not. Why should I be generous to the business that is already successful? On the flip side, it’s easier to know if a poor person is in need of money especially if it is a close relative or friend… I’d rather be generous over there.
Ok. I don’t owe it to anyone to use his service. The community is huge. When I use a buissness it’s because it’s mutually beneficial for both. If you are priced unreasonable I have every right to go and find somone that is reasonable. In every industry there are a wide variety of prices and products. So for example I needed a sewer guy motsei pesach. A frum company wanted an extra 500. My total bill would be 2k. A national conpany did a great for 500 plus 200 night fee. Guess what. I haven’t had issues for 3 years. Yes I price things out. As per my rav up until a third extra for 613. Not more. I hired a painter for 250 a day plus supplies.took 4 days. 1500 for entire house. 613 wanted 5 k plus supplies! BTW I used his guys who work for twenty plus conpanies as freelancers. If u want us to use you have reasonable prices. Just off the record why is it OK to pay these guy so cheap? Take 613 workers. Answer too much money. You are also too much money. Grow up. On amazon where it’s competitive plenty of 613 manage to make a living. I always buy there because I know that I’m supporting jews. Yes I ask people for links of jewish owned sellers that are reasonable. Not 180 for a shoe that cost 40 on anazon. Be real
Why do u get to charge us prices that we can’t pay in order for you to make your own money? That’s selfish. I rember when bais faiga started packages. How could they steal vendors money? In the end quite a few of these vendors asked to be part of the package. If you open buissness in lakewood you know that if you are high end not everyone will use you. example I can get my teenage neighbor to cut my grass for 20 an hour on my machine. Why use a company?
Why do i need to give you the prices u want? It doesn’t say let your brother charge what he wants and u must use him. I do use fair priced vendors. There was somone that approached me from my block that he went in to small construction. I sent him a pic of a sheet rock hole that was made to install a fan. His quote was 650. I got a bide for 75. Is this fair pricing? I got a gown from a national bridal store for 150. Made it tsnius for another 100. Poor rentals lost out no?Am i wrong for buying a wax ring for 5 dollars and having a laborer change it for 20.00? Let’s be fair. You want to save money also. Do u buy your iteams on Amazon closeout yourself or do u only buy from 613? What about your workers…. let’s not have a double standard.
When you open up a business you need to know the clientele if you want to charge premium prices you can go to deal and other parts in New Jersey for example a plumber in Manhattan is able to charge premium and get it five towns as well this town is built on getting the best deal possible across all boundaries and settings if you don’t like the way business is set up here please don’t open up we are town that is not full of wealthy people contrary to popular belief we are educated consumers and respect and value the dollar therefore we will do what is good for us and you should do what’s good for you. Period
As a service provider i charge expensive rates. My crowd doesn’t ask for discounts. My services call for plumbing starts at 300. Many here are cheaper. I focus on troubleshooting boiler and plumbing issues. When somone asks me my price I tell them my experience and expertise. I let them now i can do reg plumbing but at same rate. Bh full of customers. If everyone is charging same service call people will try to negotiate. The reason why they do it is because they get it. That means there is always a new guy for cheaper. My suggestion is to do specialty work and ask a premium. Never heard anyone ask for a discount in a steakhouse. A cheap caterer yes. Know your customers well. There is bh parnassa for everyone.
Put me in touch with that seamstress please. I would like to hire her
Are you allowed to call a 613 service provider for a quote and then call five others especially if your not going to use most of them and use the provider who’s cheapest?! Its against halacha to shop and waste people’s time if your not using them. Ask them upfront for thier best price and then call one other but dont call more than two providers as that’s just Ganevas Das
Anyone has a right to go shopping for prices. Since when am I not allowed to ask what the price is? If you dont want to give prices say u dont give prices. Its so interesting that these same buissness have no problem if u dont like my price get somone cheaper. I recently need to make a upscale parlor meeting. I called caterers. They wanted 30 k. I hired a Mexican chef that works for many caterers. 400 for the day. 300 hashgacha. 700 for props and dishes. 4 k for food. 5400. Why should I pay those prices? You have th3 chutzpa to say take it from maaser? Lower your prices. Your issue not mine. Don’t forget. Most people understand market price. Myself included. Every business charges the max that a customer is willing to pay. Customers can say we aren’t willing to pay those prices . The owner can adjust or close shop.
You can absolutely shop around for prices. Just be clear that you are checking prices and may not use them.
I am surprised no one is talking about the insur. Of overcharging the halacha is clear u are not allowed to overcharge. Intact if one overcharged he must give back the money. No time limit. To all the vendors who nay have overcharged u need to return the gelt. In addition the buyer has the right to cancel the sale and return the item.
The person u have to blame is not the customer but… your competition. What happens when somone tells his landlord I want to pay 500.00 less. Does it work? Gas station? No. Why? That’s market value. Many new companies have no problem making modest profit at expense of existing businesses. There are cooks in Schools that are able to give crazy low prices on simchas. They have the kitchen and workers. Once you have this you can do jobs 50 to 60 percent cheaper than people paying rent for kitchen and staff. Same my neighbor drives a bus and doesnt mind doing some handiwork on the side. I have my income. OK. 60 an hour plus supplies. So when there is always somone willing to give it we create it.
@YossiT would u be so kind as to share the name and contact info for the painter u used. U can pm me at 7325984309. Ty.
I wonder if the OP is referring to services that are thought of as negotiable after the service is provided- musician/photographer/florist, etc. – Jobs in which people will want a specific vendor. For instance, they’ll hire a specific photographer due to their unique creative flair but also ask for a discount. I mean, I get the frustration when someone drops 50k+ on a vort but asks the photographer for a couple hundred off.
My father gave bonuses to the photography crew at the end of one of my siblings weddings because of how patient and respectful they were and the photographer was literally in tears. He sat there explaining how he’s used to being nickeled and dimed when it’s time to collect payment, so this was an incredible feeling… Bottom line is, these services are often the cheapest part of a simcha but people won’t think twice about bargaining.
My biggest issue is where people withhold money and forcefully negotiate AFTER the service was already provided. We feel forced to give a discount because otherwise we don’t see any money. This is stealing. Now we require payment up front and people are up in arms how that’s not normal. However, if one would know how much doesn’t get paid after the job is done they’d be shocked.
100 percent wrong. I do ask for discounts. I understand that not every vendor is willing to meet my prices. I find somone new who is decent. But, a price is a price. Almost All wedding halls ask for full wedding paid in advance. For this reason. I hired a handyman. He took a deposit of half of the job. 3500 to start. He made me pay for all supplies. He went to home depot. I came and paid for all supplies. I was surprised. I asked him why. He said I got burned big time. After supplies were delivered he began working. When he was halfway done,He asked for 95 percent of the balance. He explained I essentially prepaid. If I would to not pay the last 5 percent it’s not that much of a loss. There is only how much u can say that you aren’t paying. He explained to me that this is due to the new trend. Additionally, there is a contract that is signed. This was a huge shock. I renovated a bathroom. Nothing big. He explained to me people will try to say I misunderstood to get a discount in the middle or end. So sad that this is where we are holding. I would never not pay at end the agreed amount. Its a bush that we came this low.
Ok. The person is trying their luck. Every vendor will tell you people always ask for discounts in town. Not always does it make sense to go and give it. You dont need to give the discount. Plenty stay firm and have buissness. Its a style. In every industry for there is always somone cheaper. I went to Jc penny and got portraits for cheap on special. I hired the photographer there for my son’s bar mitzva. He wanted 25 an hour. He was there for 4 hours and did a stunning job.100 for pictures. I printed them and put them in a album for pennies. I wanted dirt cheap. I would never ask a photographer to work that cheap. It isn’t feasible. If it’s below your profit margin say no.
All of our parnossa is decreed on Rosh Hashana by the K”BH. The only thing we can do to interfere, is to reduce it, C”VS. We can only do our hishdadlus. Sometimes, due to our lack of bitachon and emunah, the amount of hishtadlus assigned to our parnossa is great, sometimes it is minimal – a midda kaneged midda based on how much we’re working in Torah and mitzvos, and how much we are recognizing and declaring through our business “ein od melvado!”. The more one recognizes this, the less he will need to cut corners or feel the need to take advantage of the other guy.