School camp: When will we wake up and realize it’s time to move on!?
For years in Lakewood we have had and continue to have what is known as “school camp.” We want to make sure that the boys stay engrossed in Torah and shouldn’t be mevatel the time by going to camp.
First we have a small break between school and school camp.
Then we have this “amazing” program called school camp which all the boys hate and beg not to attend. Many of them leave early to avoid it. But either way, they are home by 3-4ish and have a whole afternoon left in the hot sun to figure out what to do (or rather where mommy should take them!)
Then of course we have a week break between school camp and camp.
So a few things that I wanted to point out:
1 If all these boys would attend regular camp they would be learning even more (because all the camps have learning in the mornings) plus the schedule would be fuller lasting the whole month and we’d eliminate the unnecessary small breaks
2 The boys are burnt out! They need a change! They learn all day every day with Sundays included.
3 The boys would be busier and happier!
4 The parents are not happy with the system!
I think it’s time for a change! What will make that happen!?
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Not to mention, many of the schools including mine have no bussing for “school camp”. If you’re working, it’s not easy or sometimes even possible to drop off or pickup your boys.
My boys do not like it either and they love going to school during the year.
You forgot to mention that the schools charge tuition for the full 13 month year plus extra 350 per child for “summer camp”!!!
It’s disgusting and wrong but we are told not to ask or challenge the system.
School camp is excellent for most kids. They go swimming, play some sports & go home. It also costs half the price of a standard daycamp. If your kids are unhappy, talk to your menahel about improving it, not disbanding the system. The schools would be more than happy to take a two month vacation but they know it would would be bad for the children so they continue bimisirus nefesh. Of course kids complain about school in the summer but that’s why us adults are in charge, not them. $350 is a bargain for what your getting, stop complaining & start having appreciation to your dedicated mosad Hatorah.
Agree!!! Speak to any Rebbi what his class looks like these few weeks
The classes look better than any daycamp class. The kids have no English, go swimming & go on trips. The alternative would be terrible. Many parents cannot afford 2 months of daycamp & the kids would be sick of it after the first month & really going crazy. Focus on improving school camp because it’s the best & most affordable option for the Klal. In general, let’s stop complaining & start appreciating the Yeshiva system in our town.
There should definitely be a change, but we need something cheaper than camp for the solution, camp Is not affordable.
giving 3 weeks of day camp a year is crazy! the boys need at least full 8 weeks.
They are coming home every day very early, they are going nuts at home.
I see it on the kids, they are very wild in the summer, they are bored!!!!
Where did this number of eight weeks come from?
How does it make sense that children should have such a huge vacation?
If you ask me, schools should not have ‘school camp’. They should have regular school, with English, until Rosh Chodesh Av, and then have four weeks vacation. There is no need for a vacation of longer than four weeks.
The idea of an eight week vacation comes from the Goyim, and even there it is an anachronism, based on an agrarian society.
i think a change of scenery would be a big help. i recomend the boys summer program take place in bais faige
Finally! Parents speaking out about this! Thank you! I’m sure if you took a survey, the majority of Parents feel the same.
What do we need to do as a klal to change the current situation?
My girls are home from daycamp by 3:40-4:00. Are you saying that boys daycamps will run longer hours than girls daycamps?
The mesivta boys could also use so more vacation.
As a mother of many boys I cannot agree with this letter more. The boredom my boys and neighbors are experiencing is detrimental. They end way too early in the day.
The boys dislike it so much and beg to stay home.
Lakewood also has changed so much that many many more people go away for the summers now than used to. Years ago most families stayed for July and only left for August. That is not the case now. All 4 of my boys have between 6-12 boys who left to the country for July. That’s a lot of boys missing in each class.
The boys feel it in the air and yeshiva camp seems to not be here or there. I will venture to say that there’s a lot of hefkeirus in the building…
There is so much to be said about this and change should absolutely be done. This has definitely been a very hot topic in my neighborhood recently.
i happen to personally love school camp i think it’s much better then regular camp it’s basically the same thing with a more structured schedule. kids thrive on structure! and they still get the swimming, sports and trips like in camp. my son personally loves it!
My son loves school camp. And we have bussing. Shout out to Our Shraga!
And where are their counselors coming from?
I think school camp is a great in-between program when the kids are already in summer mode.
They have the learning and the camp. My boys actually love the school camp program.
I beg to differ with the letter writer.
1. My boys love their Rabbeim BH and love the more chilled matzav the last month. It doesn’t have to be ra ra crazy camp. They get to learn but are just more chilled relaxed the last month. And then they get to end the day with fun.
2. Cost-wise it’s so much more affordable than paying for 2 full months of camp per kid!
3. BH been having this for my boys for several years and it’s only gotten better! Maybe your school needs to hire a different school camp director…
To answer Ba’al HTanya- The Brooklyn Boys schools have off a whole summer. Where do they get their counselors from?
To answer Brooke- my boys day camp(2nd half) ends at 4:45. They do end later than the girls.
Yes! 100%. Finally a voice of reason! Boys hate school camp. It’s just like school to them. No change of scenery. Same thing … school just with some swimming (read; hundred kids in a tiny pool).
In my opinion, most of these points are valid, but I strongly disagree with the first point they would learn more.
First of all the learning would be in a different setting with a new Rebbe which takes adjustment.
But the bigger point is that learning in Yeshiva camp is the the whole morning, whereas the learning in camp is usually about an hour
To Fustrated Too:
In Brooklyn the camps get their counselors from the Brooklyn Mesivtas which are off for 2 months……
1) PLEASE PARENTS SPEAK UP!!! tell the yeshivos enough so many boys have a big yerida in those 3 weeks of yeshiva camp” they dont want to be there they have so much downtime..afternoons nights weekends!!! the rabbeim also don’t want to be there
2) bungalow families and certain boys get permission to leave.. how does that make the other boys feel??
3) I have spoken to many rabbeim they need a break for 7-8 weeks
4) this isn’t the same Lakewood as 50 years ago different types of buys we put so much pressure on them all year they need some time off there are many amazing torah camps like camp agudah where the bouys grow and get refreshed for next year!
The solution should be 6th grade and up boys should be allowed to go to sleepsway camp.. kids that stay back either yeshiva can have a learning program for them in morning or there will be new day camps that will have 8 weeks… let the kids breath
I can only speak for myself. Our boys love school camp and they look forward to it every year. The yeshiva does what they can so that the rebbeim remain to be their counselors and almost every rebbe stays. They have the best rebbeim out there. We are so proud to be part of Yeshiva Shagas Aryeh. My boys love it and cherish these moments. Yes, we do have bussing. Thank you Rabbi Tober!
Good Morning!!!!
Welcome to Lakewood Ir Hatorah, where we think we are much smarter than the what the NY schools (or anything our parents did…) have been doing for over 70years…
Giving boys a fulfilling, enjoyable summer upstate is so much more productive… and no need to run around in pajamas the whole summer.
The gedolim all understood American boys but for some reason the Lakewood schools think they know better.
How many of us “shteiged”, (yes shteiged) in Camp Agudah in the 90’s, and who can forget the great Roshei Yeshivas and Rebbes Zt”l that came to Camp Agudah…
But in Lakewood we daven Ashkenaz, wear white shirts in 7th grade, and are much smarter than the previous gedolim.
100%
Couldn’t have said it better myself
Can we have the name of a Gadol who made the decision to have an eight week summer program?
Thank you. I thought as much.
The schools in Brooklyn, seventy years ago, were in a situation that they could not control. There was no way that they could have only three or four weeks off.
Boruch Hashem, our Gedolim of Lakewood, including Reb Meir Stern and להבחל”ח Reb Elya Svei, have told our schools to stay open and not close just because the public schools close.
Re point #1 – Are you kidding me? You think the boys would learn more in a camp? My husband was a Rebbe in a camp one summer (never again). The learning is a joke. They do nothing of the sort, not sure who convinced you otherwise. He’s a glorified babysitter.
The fact that one camp has a mediocre learning program shouldn’t be a reflection on ALL camps. I’ve been a camp director for the longest time. Vast majority of structured camps have very solid learning in place. Your husband’s unfortunate experience is a reflection on HIS learning director.
Can we please take a minute and understand that it’s not quantity of learning that’s the goal. What these little boys learn in a whole month, they can learn in one day when they are older. We are trying to teach them to love learning not just cram as much as possible of it down their throats.
I completely disagree with the letter writer. My son loves school camp. His school has done a fantastic job arranging trips, swim and shows. He is home by 3:30 and I am happy for him to have the afternoon to ride his bike and play with the neighbors.
My boys happen to be having a blast in school camp this year. They have a great program in “Tashmak”, Tashbar’s daycamp. So I am not on the complaining side. If your yeshiva is just a more relaxed morining with nothing much going on in the afternoon, then yes I agree there has to be achange.The yeshivas need to bring in more of a “Camp” experience to school camp to keep it exciting.
In terms of changing to the brooklyn way of doing things, this is not so simple. First of all, the reason why Brooklyn kids went up to the mountains is simply because families couldn’t survive the summers in the city. The ones that could not afford to go up stayed home and suffered in the sweltering city. Lakewood is not upstate and the mountain air in not here in Lakewood, but it is a heck of alot of better here than in Brooklyn. You can manage a summer here. Especially with almost everyone knowing somebody with a pool.
I am from Brooklyn and grew up in the mountains, so I understand the difference. Staying in Lakewood IS doable.
The families that are CHOOSING to make a statement by going upstate for the whole summer are causing issues.They are putting their own wants before the klal. For a large group of boys to leave for the summer when the shcool system is not set up that way is a problem. I don’t know what the right thing is. But it will definintely create a feeling of “have and have nots” in the classroom. I think one month of camp after school camp is more than enough for the boys.
My boys happen to be having a blast in school camp this year. They have a great program in “Tashmak”, Tashbar’s daycamp. So I am not on the complaining side. If your yeshiva is just a more relaxed morning with nothing much going on in the afternoon, then yes I agree there has to be a change.The yeshivas need to bring in more of a “Camp” experience to school camp to keep it exciting.
In terms of changing to the brooklyn way of doing things, this is not so simple. First of all, the reason why Brooklyn kids went up to the mountains is simply because families couldn’t survive the summers in the city. The ones that could not afford to go up stayed home and suffered in the sweltering city. Lakewood is not upstate and the mountain air in not here in Lakewood, but it is a heck of alot of better here than in Brooklyn. You can manage a summer here. Especially with almost everyone knowing somebody with a pool.
I am from Brooklyn and grew up in the mountains, so I understand the difference. Staying in Lakewood IS doable.
The families that are CHOOSING to make a statement by going upstate for the whole summer are causing issues.They are putting their own wants before the klal. For a large group of boys to leave for the summer when the school system is not set up that way is a problem. I don’t know what the right thing is. But it will definintely create a feeling of “have and have nots” in the classroom. I think one month of camp after school camp is more than enough for the boys.
I completely agree with you!! And for all of the new families who have moved here the past 5 years and expect everything to change for you, newsflash, Lakewood is doing this for enough years and it’s working. If you don’t like it then you can gladly take your city attitude go back to where it worked better for you.
Well said..I cannot tell you how much I gained from the learning groups in camp and just being part of a great program.
please keep in mind many pro yeshiva camp comments are from parents of younger children the younger children don’t need the break as much and aren’t at risk with so much downtime plus they are happy with the school camp provided!
its 6-7-8th grade that need to have an option of sleepaway camp!!
Why can’t they go to sleep away second half.
No one is going for 8 wks?
Boys don’t like school.
Should they stay home the whole year?
We can’t just give boys whatever they want. Should they be off the whole year and have fun?
The point is for the boys to develop and become the best that they can. If boys are okay with going it’s fine. But if a boy stays home because he really doesn’t like it then no one benefits.
By the way don’t fool yourself. There are benefits to Camp. But rarely is the learning in regular camp as good as in school camp.
You have to spend the time to know what your son needs, maybe make him feel good about going.
Structure is very good.
The whole school system is completely messed up. We really need to redouble our efforts and provide proper well balanced chinuch. For our children. FYI, That is one of the reasons we have so many children and teens struggling with all kinds of issues.
I believe every school is different. My son is thriving in school camp. The whole day is more relaxed and he actually finds the activities fun. In some schools it’s cool to say you hate school camp. I feel bad for those boys because they have to hate camp (despite the fact that some boys may deep down enjoy it). I am grateful to send to a school where this is not the case. Let’s not kid ourselves about learning in the regular daycamps – it’s a complete joke.
Completely disagree with the letter writer.
[I also never understood why parents would rather post anonymous letters on the internet rather than discuss with their school if they have an issue. Just to rile people up? I hope school admins have better things to do with their time than read anonymous forums. I’m not a school admin :)]
Camp is a fortune and a 10+ week summer is just too long for most parents and kids too! My school offers bussing, a more chilled learning in the morning and a balanced, fun program in the afternoon. Yes, the kids get out a little earlier but that’s fine. They can relax at home, play outside and just be. I’m really baffled that so many people dislike school camp – I’m guessing the problem is with your school, not the concept. I am not from Lakewood and never even heard of the concept before I moved here, but I think it’s an amazing thing.
[Another thing I ‘love’ is when people compare today to the 70s, when all was perfect in Yiddishkeit. News flash: America today looks nothing like it did in the 1970s. Times have changed and our response needs to change. It’s very very hard and our rabanim are trying. The lack of kavod hatorah and this general attitude is a sad reflection of today’s chutzpah, which is probably a result of outside influences where authority is scorned.]
How about everyone worry about their own kids…. Don’t tell me what I should do with mine, I know what is best for my kids.
How about improving the afternoon camp? I remember about 20 years ago – it was a thing not to go/like the day camp, then one year they overhauled the program adding exciting trips water park etc. with exciting head counselors – Guess what kids started joining mid season! For the next few years there was a huge uptick in participation in the day camp! Apparently, maybe due to financial reasons or possibly parents complaining of the “unnecessary expense” it seems like they are back to the old boring nebach day camp.
It doesn’t help that schools allow it to be optional – way too much peer pressure not to join..
FYI schools don’t charge 13 months of tuition I don’t recall a monthly fee rather a yearly fee which they graciously allow you to spread it out over 12 months.. Maybe go oot let me know their tuition fees! Imagine the outcry if there would be 10 weeks of vacation – I believe there’s already been outcry on here TLS that 4 weeks is enough why are there 6 weeks etc.!
The answer is not to bash the Lakewood system as if we need sleep away camp for 8 weeks – 50 years ago “kids shteiged in camp” #1 they came from the city #2 how many of their parents went to yeshiva?
How about just upgrading the school day camp – Just get ready to pay up!
I think it really depends on the school… I don’t want to mention names,but my son’s school camp is run by an experienced “camp guy” and he does an amazing job. Perhaps some schools don’t put the same effort into their camp. The boys love spending time with their Rebbe in a more fun chilled way. Of course they need a change of scenery as well and that is why they are off for six weeks.
My children had an absolutely fabulous time this year in Yeshiva Camp this year. Shout out to Tashbar who really did a great Job!
They had learning in the morning and in the afternoon had sports, activities and great trips.
Thank you Tashbar and all who were involved
My son is loving his school camp. I have no complaints.
School camp is very enjoyable for my kids. They dont want ra-ra with overnights and long camp days. They want time to just BE! School camp is a perfect blend. They have morning schedule until 2, then they have 1.5 hours of fun – be it a show one day, leagues, swimming, a trip. Low key. During the year they come home so late, and theres still the pressure of homework, they hardly have time to play outside. This is perfect! A nice change of pace.
In addition, the place to address any frustration is to the people that can help you. You cant expect change from a school or anyone for that matter, if you didnt explain speak to Hanhala. Dont complain. Just explain. Sending anonymous letters is just hock and doesnt get you anywhere.
yes the whole chinuch system is messed up. don’t tell me its not now I’m a broken but still yeshevish bocher full of pain cause of the way the system Hurt me .
AND I WISH EVERYONE WOLD CHANJE THIER MIND-SET AND REALIZE THAT YOU STILL COLD BE A GOOD YID EVEN IF YOUR NOT A MASMID WHO LEARNS 12 HOURS A DAY A TAKES ON EVERY CHUMRAH EVER INVENTED AND YES YESHEVA IS NOT FOR EVRY ONE!!!!
may all you sick people out there have a speedy and complete refu sheliemah.