Dear Editor,
In response to your previous post regarding the shidduchim challenges our community and the general litvish community in the United States are facing and experiencing, I would like to share a few thoughts on this matter.
I am acutely aware that this “issue” has been dissected and discerned from every angle and vantage point, with positions ranging from ignorance to denial, anger to helplessness, and creative ideas to complacency – So how are my two cents going to enlighten or bring something anew to the conversation? But after viewing the many comments to the post on the matter of bachurim beginning shidduchim at an earlier age, I felt compelled to speak out and add my voice to the chorus.
There is, in my opinion (and a growing consensus of many), one clear culprit driving the age gap issue, and that is, a core group of undoubtedly choshuve and respectable individuals – but a group who are unmistakably, the root cause of the tragic reality we are all experiencing, and one, whom are not being addressed vociferously or actionably enough.
The Young American Roshei Yeshivos.
Over ten years ago, an impassioned letter was sent by Rav Yosef Shalom Elyashiv, Rav Aharon Leib Shteinman, Rav Chaim Kanievsky and Rav Shmuel Auerbach imploring American Jewry to send the bochurim, who choose to go Eretz Yisrael, at a younger age in order to close the age gap between the boys and girls in shidduchim. Sending them earlier they reasoned, will allow bachurim to start shidduchim at a younger age, which they encouraged, irrespective of learning in Eretz Yisrael. The letter clearly stated that this shidduch crisis is not affecting the chassidish communities, but rather only the litvish communities. The letter additionally placed a responsibility on the young American Roshei Yeshivos to ensure that their bachurim return to the United States at a younger age to start shidduchim.
Kol Korei re Boys younger from Gedolei EY only - Teiveis 2012 (1) 2
Since the time of this letter’s release, the shidduch scene in the litvish community in the United States has grown exponentially worse and worse and even more dire. There are now thousands of older litvish girls that statistically will have a difficult time finding a shidduch. Period. To paraphrase an Abie Rottenberg verse: This is not a theory, but a fact.
Rav Elya Ber Wachtfogel at a recent Agudah convention made it crystal clear that we cannot sit idly by on the sidelines and say, “Hashem has a bashert for each person” and simply do nothing. In his words: “What is going on in the litvish world with shidduchim is simply irresponsible!”
We are not dealing with questions of guidance in derech ha’limud, we are dealing with a most severe matter of pikuach nefesh and kedushas yisrael. Yet by default, the decision makers are a small group of well-intentioned young Roshei Yeshivos; many in their upper 40’s or low 50’s; who are telling their talmidim who look up to them immensely, to stay in their yeshivos in the United States until they are 21-22 because they will “shteig” better under them.
These young Roshei Yeshivos would never claim that they are involved in klal matters or feel the communal responsibility for the crisis or the pain – the breathtaking pain – of these girls and their parents, as do the gedolei ha’dor.
They also wouldn’t posit that they have a publicly exposed or nuanced understanding of the struggle’s girls experience in their frumkeit the more they move on in ‘single years’, away from the shelter of their Bais Yaakov and seminaries – an extremely untold storyline within this crisis.
They also wouldn’t fathom to openly flaunt or dispute the opinions of the gedolei yisrael, both past and present in any other area of chinuch or matters of yiddishkeit. But yet, they do exactly that when it comes to this subject.
So why is this being done? Why are they keeping the boys from leaving to Eretz Yisrael early?
Let’s ask them.
Is it because the bochurim in their yeshivos need to “shteig” under their inimitable and articulate shiur until they are 21-22?
Is it their personal negiyus and the prestige of their yeshivos which is blinding their judgement?
Respectfully, I pose to them: Is this disregard and defilement of daas torah from our gedolei ha’dor going to bring more kedushah and ruchniyus to klal yisrael?
When these young Roshei Yeshivah were in shidduchim some twenty-plus years ago themselves, the norm in the litvish communities was to start shidduchim at 21-22. So why then, are you, our dear Roshei Yeshivos, changing the mesorah of your own rabbeim?
I recently spoke to a distinguished mental health professional in Lakewood who told me that from his perspective, the recent uptick in divorces among young couples, is in part attributable and can be traced to the fact that many of the girls (and parents) know that they don’t, or won’t, have many shidduch options available to them, as there are currently so many more girls than boys in the system, and are making rash or clouded decisions when agreeing to become engaged. In his opinion, if the bochurim would begin to date younger, thereby evening the numerical inequality for our girls, there would be “far less shalom bayis issues!”
I just finished the new Artscroll biography on the life of Rav Chaim Kanievsky. I read about Rav Chaim’s known opposition to “freezer policies” in yeshivos and his opinion shared by virtually all gedolim that even if a bachur knowingly went to a yeshivah with a freezer policy and was “forced” to sign a paper to adhere that he won’t begin dating until a certain time frame, it is not halachically valid (‘masneh al mah shekusov ba’torah’, See Kesubos 56,b) and the bochur can date immediately after signing such a paper.
There was one particular story that caught my attention. There is a story (pg.105) that occurred when someone from overseas came to Rav Chaim and cried to him that there were no available shidduchim for his 30-year-old daughter. Rav Chaim encouraged him and told him that he and his daughter should say 10 perakim of tehillim daily.
After the father left, Rav Chaim told his grandson, “I witness this tragic situation all the time, primarily from people living overseas. What are we supposed to do when the bachurim start shidduchim at such a late age in chutz la’aretz? People are creating this problem themselves! If the boys would marry at a younger age, this issue would not be as widespread as it is today. It is a question of people listening to chazal who say that you must get married younger.”
His grandson countered, “But Saba, why is this father and his daughter guilty and why should they suffer?” R’ Chaim replied, “This man probably has sons for whom he has looked, or will be looking, for shidduchim. Why should he expect more boys to be available for his daughter if he is like most people in chutz la’aretz, who don’t allow their sons to start shidduchim until they are well over twenty years old?”
We must galvanize as a collective or even individually to rock the foundations of this broken system. Broken and exacerbated by and large, by a series of independent decisions by a few over the last decade plus, and fixable with an attainable solution that can make real impact on the crisis. Send them earlier! So instead of bemoaning and lamenting our generations lot in life, we can make incremental and permanent changes to the system.
Speak to your son’s Rosh Yeshiva. Approach them respectfully in shul or within your kehillos. From the prominent “household names” to the smaller, less established Roshei Mosdos. They may deflect and claim they are merely one young Rosh Yeshiva with their own proprietary mosad, so how is the onus on them? It is on them. It is the responsibility of each one of them.
A noted philanthropist and community activist who is intimately involved in this matter told me, if mothers and their single daughters would approach the wives of these young Roshei Yeshivos at weddings and simchos, and simply say to them; gesturing at their daughters; “Look Rebbetzin. Look at what your husband’s yeshiva is doing to my precious daughter!” the tide would begin to turn. “Show them the victims of this misguided and malicious cycle!” he exclaimed.
The reader may be uncomfortable by the accusatory tone and tenor I have expressed in this letter, but the facts must be stated, and a spotlight must be shone on the protagonists. The young American Roshei Yeshivah must come to realize the incalculable and unforgivable impact they are having, on not only their talmidim’s sisters – but on their own daughters too.
The buck starts and stops with them. It can only be fixed at their station.
A Yid.
TLS welcomes your letters by submitting them to [email protected]
KOL HAKAVOD!!! We are talking about Nefashos here!!! we allowed this to slip out of control, as a community we did not follow Daas Torah. We can still rectify this. We MUST start bochurim earlier otherwise this slippery slope will continue.
1) WHAT ABOUT THE GEDOLIM OF AMERICA?! Its very nice that we have the opinion of The Rabbanim in EY, but the policy is being set by OUR Gedolim. As they should be.
When I wanted to start shidduchim at 20, i approached my rosh yeshiva, he in turn asked HIS rosh yeshiva. A Chaver on the MOetzes Gedolei Hatorah, and lets just stay i started when i was 24.
2) There ARE eitzos that others mentioned, Like getting girls to start later. Let them do “work and seminary” if work alone is no good. There are a lot of eitzos to be had without having to get boys to begin earlier.
3) While its nice to blame Roshei Yeshiva. The fact is, that anyone in this system has their parents okaying these suggestions. And if the age gap is an issue, then PARENTS should not be looking at shidduchim with a younger girl.
There is a disconnect here, with an attempt to place blame. Not b’davka.. But the Yetzer Ho’ra has his ways…
Last I checked there was one Hashem and one Torah…… it can’t be twisted. If there are cultural differences between us and Israel I do understand that. Yet the letter of the Gedolim from Israel was and is unprecedented. I can’t remember one other instance that they involved themselves in what can be termed an exclusive American matter…… yet they did….. unfortunately the anguished cries of our Bnos Yisrael and their families reached them as we in the Litvish Community in America have failed and continue to fail in regards to the Shidduchim Parsha. When Chas V’Sholom someone needs a Beracha for a Refuah Shelimah they head to the Gedolim…. We in America have failed so miserably that close to 20% of our Litvish girls are single. The intervention of the Gedolim was appropriate and much needed. Problem is that it is an Unheeded Cry and until more people realize the mess we are creating for our Bnos Yisrael things won’t get better.
Re your story: What a RY tells an individual has nothing to do with this entire conversation. No individual getting married younger will help the crisis. This is a Klal Yisroel Crisis and it needs a klal yisroel solution. That is also why the key to the solution does not rest with the parents either and they are not to be blamed.
For this reason the letter writer is pleading with the tzibbur to let the RY know what we are going through so that they have clarity on the extent of this horrible crisis and so that they have the knowledge that only they, all together as one, can correct this.
In defense of the RY, you write that there are other eitzos. In my mind that is no defense at all. The reason being; who do you expect should implement those eitzos?? Is it not the roshei yeshiva? If they feel that the obvious solution (bochurim getting married younger) is not workable then let them get together and institute other solutions. Whether its girls getting married later or boys dating girls their age or whatever other ideas are out there. Why the deafening silence in the face of such a tragedy? Many of the RY are today’s gedolim so they definitely carry the achrayus for the tzibur at large, and even those who are not have enormous influence on the bochurim so they are the only ones who can institute anything and it is incumbent on them to do so since they (perhaps for good reason) are not allowing the solution of boys getting married younger.
To summarize, inaction on the part of those who can make a difference is simply not an option anymore, therefore we need to reach out to them and respectfully request of them not to rest until a solution is found ולה’ הישועה
That Abie Rottenburg song is a great one.
How about his new one “there ain’t no bishul in a klei shlishi” Epic.
“I love that song!” said the punster. “I went out of my keilim when I heard it!”
There are so many single girls in my neighborhood….. some are approaching 30. I truly feel that making changes are necessary. We are talking about great girls from great families. There simply are not enough Bochurim available. Nobody should call it a “Bitachon Crises” etc. it is a crises of not listening to Daas Torah and we as a Kehilla HAVE to address this. It’s been waiting to explode for too long. Let’s fix it before there are more Karbanos…..
I have a different idea, and I have never heard anyone speak about and that is to have the girls start later. Why don’t the girls start dating at 20 to 21 why can even save up some money to afford a house or something.
Why do they need to run back from seminarian so fast before they could breathe and settle down they’re a so much pressure for them it’s not healthy
I’ve long said the same thing too but who’s going to listen to me…
I agree.why is that we can’t make it that the girls don’t start dating for a year or 2 after seminary let them grow up a little,make some money and then start dating.
Why is it always on the boys?
Some boys like being in yeshiva just because the nasi project tried a solution that everyone knew would never work because boys never listen amd created a mass panic in girls.stop all the crying and screaming about the yeshiva system it didn’t help why not try the other way for once and stop picking on the boys.
You know why, once the girls see they can make money and not be married they will chose to work and enjoy their freedom. Too much control over people fails eventually.
Rav Avigdor Miller strongly disagrees with this idea. He states that the longer a girl waits to get married after school/seminary, her hashkofos and ideals are weakened and this has a very detrimental effect.
I couldn’t agree more with the letter.
Well said !! The other culprits are the parents, in particular the mothers of the boys , they feel secure with the fact that their sons will get hundreds of resumes, so its not their worry if he starts shidduchim, a year or 2 later, they need to feel the achrayis to the Klal as well
The parents have to realize that although their sons will get more Shidduch resumes if they wait, if they aren’t very wealthy etc. and Choshuv this will have an adverse effect on your DAUGHTERS. Just because you have a Bochur in Shidduchim and everyone is running after you, when you have a daughter you will see al pi derech hateva how hard it is. Therefore a parent should do the right things with their son. They cant look at him as a commodity that will go up. This is not the Derech HaTorah to keep your son waiting to have his “stock” go up in price!!!
THERE IS NO SHIDDUCH CRISES
Hashem already setup your sons and everyone else’s son/daughter zivug 40 days before they were even born. Forget about the fact that now they are holding at around 20 or so years later since they were born. Hashem has their zivug waiting for them and can send it to your son/daughter immediately but is just waiting for each person involved in shidduchim to do their RUCHNIUS hishtadlus of Bitachon and Emunah(faith and trust in Hashem) together with Tefillos/Prayers.
Mrs. Seminary girl,/Mr. Learning/working boy Are YOU doing your RUCHNIUS hishtadlus? Not just your gashmius hishtadlus of dating and speaking to shadchanim etc….?
Start turning directly to Hashem for help in all your needs, especially shidduchim that they say is a bigger miracle than the splitting of the Yam suf.
It is time for you to stop posting the same ridiculous comment, verbatim, each time this topic comes up.
If you understand Bitochon better than Rav Elya Ber then don’t be anonymous rather show us your credentials.
FYI, these holy girls are turning directly to Hashem all day for years so stop preaching. Obviously, bitochon is necessary but it will not help the 20% since there is a shortage. If you would just stop for a few moments and listen to the clip posted here maybe you would stop being so ridiculous.
Everyone wants to do the right thing. We all know deep down that we are heading to a dangerous place without making changes. Chazal Say “Shakdu Chachamim Al Takanos Bnos Yisrael”. We have no choice but to ensure our Bnos Yisrael that we will do our utmost to put the situation back to the way it was twenty years ago. To those that think that the American mentality is not in line with the Israeli Gedolim, Rav Elya Ber is the one facing the cameras at the Agudah convention and other venues and calling from the depth of his heart to make significant changes.
I have great respect for our roshei yeshiva. At the same time I agree with the letter writer. This had to be said, and he expressed it with derech eretz. Organizations are encouraging bochurim and families to start young, but the bochurim are only following the guidance of their rosh yeshiva and rebbeim. In general we want bochurim to follow their daas torah and ‘shtell tzu’ to the norms in their yeshiva, not to be fighting the trends. So of course it is the roshei mosdos who need to look into this topic and make the necessary changes for their yeshivos. Obviously the roshei yeshiva are not reading the Scoop bh, and they need to be approached appropriately by the right parties. If you have what it takes, please get involved!
Ugh
I am one of those helpless parents. This letter writer is brilliant. Every word perfectly written, right on target.
I don’t know who you are, but please come forward and take a leadership role in this obvious disaster of our Shidduchim system.
Yes, we are mameinim Bnei mameinim, but it is possible for us humans to mess things up !
I may actually print up this letter and mail to the young Roshei Hayeshivas who won’t see it
Why does your son need to go to Eretz Yisroel at all?
Many Gedolim from America feel this way… bachurim should NOT go to Eretz Yisroel unless they are not learning well and need to leave their yeshiva…. But “trends” unfortunately win over daas Torah with many…
Why can’t a bochur learn in a good yeshiva from 9th grade through bais medrash and stay until 22-23 and then look for a shidduch (and if a good offer is suggested at 20-22, take it!).
The push to marry everyone before 23-24 is against the Gemara קדושין ל, that learning can ppreface marriage until 24… everyone must do what’s best for their ability to be and remain a בן תורה.
BTW (heard this directly from Gadol Hador HaRav Reuven Feinstein Shlita) – there is no shidduch crisis… Hashem created a shidduch for everyone who is supposed to have one… There is a chinuch and daas Torah crisis… People aren’t really looking, or turning down their zivug for stupidity… Some are just marrying money… Some have unrealistic wants or expectations…. Some have messed up hashkafos and priorities… This lis goes on….
Reb reuvein is correct. The shidduch crisis is just that. People not looking for their zivug.
Why not have the girls start shidduchim later?
They will be able to secure a job/schooling and save up money for their marriage which will help relieve the financial strain on the parents. This will also enable them to become more settled in their hashkofos and decide what they are really looking for in a husband. This will also allow the boys to learn for more years as everyone knows once your married with kids it becomes more and more difficult to stay in learning full time for many.
Because that has nothing to do with the problem nor will it resolve the problem.
Because if girls take the time to learn who they are and decide what they want in a husband, then the boys will have to work hard to attract them. Can we really afford to let the boys experience the stress that girls have gone through for years?
There are good older boys in bmg just not enough shadchanim that can see the good of the people and negotiate in good faith a shiduch if interested please contact me (moderated)
We are very involved with the older boys and girls. Fact is there are regular meetings of the shadchanim just to work on finding shiduchim for these older boys and girls.
Thank you!!
Please everyone heed the call.
Now is not the time to start defending the roshei yeshiva (even if you don’t like the sharpness of the letter). Simply put there is no greater chilul of kvod hatorah and kvod shomayim then the reckless irresponsibility that is going on here. How are we supposed to understand and explain to others this total lack of achrayus?! Zu Torah Vzu schoroh?!
Bein hazmnaim is coming and we need to apply pressure. Speak to the roshei yeshiva and also speak to your rov and ask him to contact roshei yeshiva that he knows. Reach out to askonim that you know and ask them to do their part as well.
This needs to end.
Even if you children are still young, know well that their time will approach very soon and if this tragedy is not stopped you will be hit with this horrible reality as well. I am in it now and I simply cannot believe what we are going through. We are a respected family with parnoso bh and a wonderful daughter and yet the phones are almost dead.
Lets all take action today because we cannot afford anymore korbonos.
To see and hear Rav Elya Ber follow this link https://www.torahanytime.com/#/lectures?v=169104
Please!
I appreciate this immensely. As a brother of two older girls in Shidduchim the letter writer didn’t articulate the pain our family is undergoing from this. It is a Busha and acute tzaar hanefesh that is indescribable. Lets hope as a Kehilla we do the right thing and send bochurim to Shidduchim when they aren’t 24 which is what’s going on……
Wow!
This letter says it all. Exquisitely written and formulated, and articulated perfectly.
We all know the age gap issue is THE issue and it’s time to pull our heads out of the sand.
Kudos to the letter writer for highlighting and expressing so eloquently this travesty and appropriately fingering the culprits — well-intentioned and chashuv as they may be.
I happen to think he was being generous and perhaps ‘pulling his punches’ out of an abundance of derech eretz, focusing only on the “Young” Roshei Yeshivos.
The onus is on the older and more renowned Roshei Yeshiva even more so!
If they make the changes themselves how much quicker will it cascade and how quickly would the younger ones follow?
INSTANTANEOUSLY.
I look forward to the cynics and critics of this letter feigning breathless “shock” and eliciting howls over the “audacity” and “arrogance” of the letter writer.
Silly and unserious people. Pay them no heed.
Those who are involved in this “crisis” know this is precisely where the blame lies and where the solution must emanate from.
Ashrecha to the author, and let us all act on this call to action! A grassroots pressure campaign on ALL the Roshei Yeshivos. SEND THEM EARLIER!!!!!!
parents are only waiting until the child is very mature – just like the matzah bakery which waited too long
What are you saying?
SEND THEM EARLIER OR DONT SEND THEM AT ALL!!
Everyone knows that the hasmodo is far greater in American yeshivas. There is absolutely no need to go to Eretz Yisroel. Period
EVERYONE stop being quiet about what is being done do your daughters. Obviously, whatever is being done needs to be done respectfully but it needs to get done NOW.
Although I agree with you. As a father of several married boys there is no way that the bochurim won’t go to Israel whether they shteig there or not. I dont think that will change. However a small easy fix that would savea few months are for the Yeshivos to cut out the freezer policies. It makes no sense at all and is just delaying the process by a few months.
“If” the roshei yeshiva insist that it change, it can and will change.
Eliminating a few months of a freezer will not help in a significant way
“Our hands did not shed this blood” Devarim 21:7! Honestly I feel so sad when I see classmates of mine who are not married it pains me. I met a single friend last week, a great girl from a great family who told me she hasn’t had a Shidduch date in over 15 months. very sad indeed.
Is that what all south fallsburg talmidim are doing?
Interesting question!
this is wrong- why don’t we close the age gap by having girls start shidduchim a little later? this will surely minimize divorces. a lot of divorces are because of couples that are immature and not prepared for marriage, not because the girls are settling.
let’s have a freezer for girls- they should start shidduchim at 20.5/21. they’ll also be more financially stable by then and hopefully have more of a direction in life, wont have to really on their parents as much.
if everyone did this, there would be less pressure and divorce
This may be a solution in a few years to start the girls later as they do in Israel where there is no Shidduch crises even by the Litvish girls. However it’s not practical to freeze the girls. The girls and their parents know that there’s a real problem out there. They won’t sit around and be sacrifices for a system which is out of whack. The letter writer addressed the core issue. He’s 100% right. We have to deal with the problem. Not the symptoms.
Where are you getting your info from that in Israel girls start later?! The reason why there is no crisis on EY is because the boys there start younger and the reason why they start younger is because they weren’t zocheh to mekabel the great yeherog val yaavor mitzva of learning kodshim in Brisk etc. while being a 22-24 year old bochur.
Maybe tell the girls not to demand a Brisk boy. Then the boys won’t need to go to Brisk.
Although I agree with you. As a father of several married boys there is no way that the bochurim won’t go to Israel whether they shteig there or not. I dont think that will change. However a small easy fix that would savea few months are for the Yeshivos to cut out the freezer policies. It makes no sense at all and is just delaying the process by a few months.
Unfortunately like with everything else, where there is desperation, people won’t listen to have their girls wait till 21 . Every parent is desperate. It’s like telling people that everybody should not pay inflated prices for houses and then the prices will not keep on increasing to insane levels . If everybody listened, then it would be true. But there are always those that don’t listen and think about their needs .
Thank you for posting this. I can tell you that some of the old and young Roshei Yeshivos are aware of this problem and recently started to make changes. I just hope that this Pesach Zman they send every bochur over 20 to learn in Eretz Yisrael. I was in tears several months ago to see that this challenge is effecting “only” 15% of the girls. This is a few thousand girls. It’s almost the size of a shevet in Klal Yisrael. We have to make the changes now and completely abolish any freezer policy that exists in every Yeshivah. It’s about time.
Back to basics. I may have seen the letter of the Gedolim in the past. We all know this situation is spiraling out of control. We have no choice to listen to whatever it says in the letter of the Gedolim. They are the Eini HaEdeh. To TLS: I thank you for publishing the letter of the Gedolim. I just printed it out and will review it more in depth.
No, girls really cannot start dating later because they are not in a school frame work. They are in the workforce or in a college program and the longer they are out of school the harder it is for them to keep their level of frumkeit. Without a home and a husband to hold them it is extremely hard. They have time and money so unless you want girls running off to Cancun and Dubai etc.. They need to start dating. There are many girls through no choice of their own who stick around until they are 21 and above, and they try hard to keep their standards but as time passes some slip. I just spoke to a 22 year old girl who hasn’t had a date in over a year, she said she doesn’t even care anymore she’ll marry a working guy she JUST WANTS A DATE!
And maybe that is part of the problem. “She’ll marry a working guy…” as if it’s settling. But maybe she was always meant to marry a guy like that and her challenges got her to a point where she could appreciate and accept who she is supposed to marry. Part of the problem can be that the seminaries are encouraging girls to marry a certain type of guy, and let’s face it, it is difficult to be a good boy of that caliber.
You just explained exactly why young women should be encouraged to wait. Why get their hearts broken by thinking 22 is old, when they can believe that it is the normal age and not feel so disheartened when they don’t get chosen.
Ah, but clearly us working people are the low 5th choice. If you’re turning to us out of desperation we don’t want you either.
A few small steps
1. Put out the real current data by graduating yr of bais yakovs and how many still left
2. Like by chassidim both sides get resume with the same click of the mouse… so no’s and yes’es go faster and girl doesn’t think nothing doing there’s names there’s traffic…
3. Finally girls chinuch way more matzliach and in a community the gears need to line up.. so they have sheefos not so practical in metzius
I recall just a few years ago. I wanted to start dating when I was 19yr. I didn’t get redt to many girls and when I did there was a “reason” why. I ended up getting serious shudchiem redt when I was 23. What through those years I went through the system. Went to EY when I was 21 for 2yrs and then came back.
What I’m saying is that most girls are very picky when they are young (18-21) they need the cookie cut guy that went through the system and no I wasn’t going to date a girl that was 2 years older then me that finally got her priorities straight.
There are two issues 1) girls have to mature and stop thinking what everyone will think who they are married too. Because once you get married you won’t matter you’ll be on the next thing to worry about what everyone else thinks.
2) guys should start being told to grow up younger (19-20) instead wasting a few years just sitting around waiting to become mature. If done properly a guy will learn much better after he gets married then before. Responsibilities make you a better person.
I am just reaching out to you this way since I do not know how else to reach you.
Interesting to me how TLS is working to control the narrative. My comment earlier was not posted. Talk about integrity (sic)
(Moderated)
For the record. I have 2 single daughters each over 26 and a son currently in the freezer.
Very surprising the position TLS is taking but clearly you have an agenda and will (like all other fake news agencies) focus on promoting your agenda. I thought klal yisroel is above that.
(Moderated)
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Editor’s Note: Your comment which stated “this is all nonsense” will not be published. Stating that letters from the Gedolei Hador are “nonsense” will not be allowed on our site.
And correct, we absolutely have an agenda. The agenda is to try and improve the dire situation Bnos Yisroel find themselves in. Which is why we published this letter that requires us to take a hard look at reality, without calling Daas Torah “nonsense”
Feel free to reach out with any further questions.
With all due respect. This is not taking a position. The writer and the scoop are pointing out the obvious that there are so many girls suffering. Your two daughters are included in the tzaar of so many of the Bnos Yisrael. Your personal tzaar is probably why the Gedolim of Klal Yisrael penned the letter they did (I”m not on a level to understand them). They dont want Chashuver Bnos Yisrael to suffer and whatever is in our hands (as expressed in their letter) should be done. Much Hatzlacha to your family!!!!
I know that the freezer is something that the Gedolim are working to Bez”h eliminate (Amen). But you should send your son to a Yeshivah that doesn’t have a Freezer in Chodesh Adar. Especially if you have two older daughters. The pain that you and them are suffering should not put you into such a dark place to send your son to a Yeshivah with a Freezer policy in Adar.
Is that what my letter said? That what the Gedolim say is nonsense?
No what I said was what the letter writter wrote is nonsense.
The South Fasslburg Rosh Yeshiva is from our Gedolay Hador and his opinion is front and center.
I’m again asking (let’s see if you will actually post this since it’s against your narrative that you admit to trying to control) why are we not asking the Mesader Gittin their opinions on this?????? Why are we not discussing how for way too many Rabbonim and Gedolim they are busy day and night with Sholom Bayis issues and divorce where in so many cases its because the boys and girls were pushed into marriage at a young age when they were not ready.
Why are we not asking the local Menahalim and menahelos what they are saying? Afterall it is them who have to deal.with all the little children from broken homes.
According to you there should be less divorce now because everyone is getting married older than they did several years ago. 24 for a boy is now the norm.
You also just totally pulled that out of your hat. The reason why people are getting divorced is because they married young??That is a total fabrication. The letter writer writes a much more sensible reason.
Actually, The opposite is true. I heard from a chassidishe cousin of mine that his children who got married younger than the others have the best shalom bayis.
The south fallsburg Rosh yeshiva also made it clear that this is a non issue.
What do I know. Don’t listen to me. I’m just a commentor on a site. Call your Rov. Have a real sit down with him. Call the local bais Din. Call the frum therapist. Hear what they say. Never trust what you read here as fact. Call them. Any one of them. I am so sure you will be shocked to hear that I am right that I don’t even care to know which Rov, which bais Din or which therapist you call because they will ALL say what I am saying is true.
We are so focused on pushing a shidduchim crisis agenda that we have lost focus on what marriage needs to be.
I wish TLS would sit down for a real heart to heart with the Rabbonim, Roshei Yeshiva and those who are busy all day and night trying to save or fix the sholom bayis issues, the coping issues, the relationship issues and then report back what they hear is REALLY happening.
Obviously we want every single to be married and yes we have a serious issue with our system of shidduchim. However the ultimate goal must only be to be mezaveg zivugim for the purpose of building Yiddisha homes and families. Its not about statistics. It’s about life.
If you listen to the clip you will hear Dr. Yossi Shafer clearly disputing what you are saying. Additionally Rav Elya Ber denies it as well as does R’ Lewenstein. Before you comment so much take a minute to listen.
There was a meeting by Harav Shmuel Bernbaum about 22 yrs ago with many older Roshie yeshiva and they did not come to the conclusion that boys should get married younger / skip going to ey or go younger I believe R chaim Epstien, the Novaminsker Rebbe, R’ Aron Feldman who are not the ” young roshei yeshiva “
Not sure if your facts are entirely correct but you fail to realize that the situation is way worse now than it was then just from the numbers alone. It’s not a comparison. There is no question that we reached a tipping point. Drastic situations require drastic measures.
Chas V’shalomn to say anything about gedolim they try their hardest to be mechanich the boys. but yes we need to get together and do something or maybe just send your kids to chasidish schools.
If the issue is age gap, how about giving a nice sum toward the Chasuna of any boy who marries his age or older regardless of age and income? It could be directed to the couple (toward a down payment on a house) or to the parents (discounted Chasuna rate).
Since people feel very strongly about this issue, I sure hope people would be happy to contribute toward a communal fund to fix it.
So now you’re making marriage a financial gain.
Financial gain? Marriage means paying high rent and having children (costs for diapers, play groups, and tuition). This isn’t a financial gain, it’s softening the blow.
Respectfully, is there any data that a shidduch crisis exists besides anecdotal evidence of someone they personally know? Yes there are older single girls there are also single older boys…Has anyone done real research on the numbers. Before anyone changes the system it is imperative do define the problem.
Your comment is disrespectful, callous and mean. According to you lets conduct a study for a year or tow and meanwhile slaughter another few thousand girls.
Follow this link and get out of your cave:
https://www.torahanytime.com/#/lectures?v=169104
I am sorry what I said bothered you so much.
I did some research and there is data available done by Dr. Yosef Sokol. you can google it. which says that 92% of both men and women are married by age 30.
I guess it depends how you define “crisis”
The agudah convention discussion assumed the numbers as a given and did not prove them.
Hashem should help everyone find their bashert easily.
Klal yisroel has mosdos for so many things. Do you ppl release the benefits all can have if there was a mosad that would pay people (who have making shiduchim talents) to work as a paid shadchan. full salary full time job. not based on how many they actually will make .such a mosad hgefen exists in eretz yisroel. it take hours time effort etc to red shidduchim . if people would be working full time as shadchanim as their paid offical job this would defiantly help ,no doubt! this is alot simple then changing an entire yeshiva system that despite everyone crying NOTHING has happened!
2) face reality, do your homework !that many many older girls have many many kepados! and seek ” g-d gift to the world” only
“lets call a spade a spade” be honest!
Your shadchonim idea is great and it should definitely be implemented BUT, since there are not enough boys the problem will continue.
Why do people have a hard time wrapping their brains around such a simple concept?? Perhaps if you would spend a half hour listening to Mr. Barnett, R’ Lewnstein and Rav Elya Ber shlita on the link posted earlier you will better understand and be more sensitive with your off the mark comments.
i actually did listen and am not saying it will solve the whole issue . my point is, it will help tremendously in mean time. while getting boys to start younger hasnt been happening for yrs and yrs and yrs despite all our crys!
They are not the problem. truth be told, older boys are more ridiculous then the girls. There are guys in their 40’s and older. These guys won’t listen to shiduchim of girls their age, because their biological clock is to close to expiration. They start acting that way when they hit 30.
thank you lakewood scope! please please please continue to make as much noise as you can to help LITERARLY THOUSANDS suffering day in and day out! its very hard for a married person to realize how many and how much pain SO many innocent BOYS and girls are having from the shidduch system. yes BOYS and girls! thank you so so much!
Your letter was well written. However, you should realize that many Roshei yeshiva (“young” and old) advise what is better for each individual student. (Think about Chanach l’naar al pi darko, and that one goes to his rebbe for advice) It’s not a rule set in stone when one is ready to go learn in Eretz Yisroel. There are bochurim who go right after mesivta and there are bochurim who go after 3-4 years bais medrash.
It’s also not set in stone when one is ready to get married.
When I was in yeshiva, post EY, I asked my mashgiach when I would know when I am ready to start dating. He told me that it’s a natural feeling that comes to people when they are ready. He then told me with a smile, “If you’re asking the question, you probably aren’t ready yet.” He then told me to set a goal for myself in the near future and see if I would be ready by then. I gave myself more time and started going out half a year later.
It’s not based on an age set in stone and each individual has their time when they are ready.
your facts are wrong because bochurim are not being advised on an individual basis rather EVERYONE is being told not to get married until age 24
Additionally, even if there are bochurim who would benefit from waiting a little longer it is not so simple that they have the right to wait when their waiting is causing a calamity on bnos yisroel as Rav Elya Ber explains. Please listen to his clear daas torah
THANK YOU TLS FOR HAVING THE SPINE TO PUBLISH THIS LETTER. WE must stop this צרה because it is created by us. You can’t run in front of a speeding truck and have בטחון that you won’t get killed.
By the way, the Nasi project released the numbers. They used the enrollments of Torah U’mesorah schools. And guess what? Every year, there were more boys born than girls. So yes, if the typical shidduch is a 23 year old guy to a 19 year old, you have a problem. But considering that there are more boys born every year, then maybe Hashem arranged a bit of refuah to the makka (as some perceive it)?
And as I said before, maybe the girls are told that the only guy they could marry is the BMG guy, so the freezer, and the system play a big role. Perhaps stop pushing all the girls to marry top guys who will learn for many years. But no, every girl is entitled to be the next Vichana Kaplan (in a Mackage coat of course). Be honest with what you really want in life, and what it means to be a frum person with values, and expand your horizons…
If anyone wants to see the numbers they released it’s in the TorahAnytime link at minute 15. In it, they show the gap of four grades of boys vs. four years of girls in the school year 2013-14, who were projected to be entering shidduchim in 2022:
Girls: 5th: 2858, 6th: 2671, 7th: 2583, 8th: 2433
Boys: 5th: 2974, 6th: 2781, 7th: 2689, 8th: 2532
That means every single year around 100 more boys are born than girls! So maybe there is no gap at all! Perhaps it’s the standards of what people expect for the daughter that blinds them from what their daughter really needs.
Dear Bochur
Seems you missed the part that the 8th grade boys are marrying 5th grade girls so there is a 300 person gap. Please listen careful before posting silly comments and trying to minimize the gravity of the situation
I know that. I was just pointing out that perhaps yes, a majority will marry four years younger, but the fact is that many marry closer in age and perhaps that percentage offsets, considering that more boys are born every year.
A MORE SERIOUS CRISES THAN THE SHIDDUCH CRISES IS THE TESHUVA AND ACHDUS CRISES
Why haven’t the Gedolei Hador of our generation made yet a zman for serious Teshuva and Achdus together ASAP like we did in the story of Purim? Together with fasting and Kinnus etc…. How much worse C”V does the situation in klal yisroel need to get for us to wake up from living in denial and FACE REALITY to accept Hashems wake up call for serious Teshuva and Achdus together ASAP like one loving nation?
How can we expect Mashiach to come when the Sinas Chinam (baseless hatred) in today’s generation is worse then the generation from the days of the second Bais Hamikdosh that was destroyed because of Baseless hatred?
The Rambam says אין פוראניות בא בעולם אלא בשביל ישראל, “there are no Tragedies in the world except because of “כלל ישראל . From the year 2001 until the year 2009 what happened in the world? First we had September 11 2001. where over 3000 people died in one day (only one other day was there that 3000 people died in one day & that was during the Civil War) what happened then? Everyone was effected with loss of family & jobs, & we each ask ourselves as we say in Yiddish “Vos Vil De Eibishter Fun Mir” (what does Hashem want from me) for a short while we feel it & then it leaves us & we all forget about it. What happened in September of 2005? the Tsunami hit from the Indian Ocean. Where over 110,000 people died & another 1,000,000 people became homeless & lost their jobs & their lives were destroyed & again we say “Vos Vil De Eibishter Fun Mir”. & the same thing happens (we feel it for a while & then forget about it). What happened in 2006? Hurricane Katrina hit New Orleans [here in America] where thousand more AGAIN lost their lives & thousands of others lost family & jobs. & then what happened in 2008? the Market crashed & people lost millions & billions of dollars, with thousands of other people losing their jobs . With the Lehman Brothers Market Crashing & General Motors Going Bankrupt etc… Each time we say the same thing to ourselves “Vos Vil De Eibishter Fun Mir” (what does Hashem want from me) & then after a short while we just forget about it like it never happened. We all think that the Riches that i have are because of ME & the work i did for my Business, we forget that Hashem sent us all this money & everything in the world he is watching every day. We have to remember that all this is Happening because of אין פוראניות בעולם אלא בשביל ישראל, all this is because we don’t take these messages from Hashem for us to return to him. Hopefully now we can take these signs & prevent other tragedies from happening.
The situation in Eretz Yisroel & in the Diaspora is very bad from Terrorists to the entire Economy going down etc… If anyone should ask why all these Tzaros are Happening to Klal Yisroel he only needs to look at what the Rambam says. Saying that as long as we remain ignorant of the present troubles that we have & what the reasons are that they are happening. The situation can only get worse until Mashiach comes. With the society we are living in today we (sadly) CONSTANTLY need reminders (wake-up calls) from HASHEM for us to do T’shuva & return to HASHEM so all this Tzaros can end & Mashiach comes.
Signed
Davening for klal yisroel ultimate redemption bkarov.
(Thank you TLS for the amazing work you do all year. You can even post this comment above as its own newsletter written by someone or if you feel not then just leave in this newsletter but without the parentheses note for TLS)
” After all was said and done, more was said then done”. Along with seeking a solution, all involved should take immediate action. If you are looking or know someone looking for a shidduch commit to making a phone call at minimum once a week to an acquaintance asking if they may have a suitable suggestion?
Wouldn’t the easiest change be for the boys to be asked that the first 5 girls they date be within a year of their age. This does not require any changing of systems for boys or girls.
I just don’t understand one thing.
When it comes to filter your cellphone, we all must listen to the GEDOLIM. AND YES WE MUST!!!
But when they say boys should get married earlier, we don’t listen!!
Since when do we get to choose what PSAK we listen and what PSAK we don’t listen to??
To the letter writer. YOU DID AN AMAZING JOB SAYING EVERYTHING STRAIGHT & MOST OF ALL WITH RESPECT!!
My heart goes out to all the parents that are looking for SHIDUCHIM for their children. May HASHEM help all the girls and boys find their ZIVOG ASAP.
I think all agree the current Matzav is not a sustainable path. Not saying we have to go the Chasidish approach but if the boys start at 24 and are dating 19-20 years old you don’t have to have a sophisticated degree to know that we are heading for a catastrophe. To say that Hashem has something against Litvish girls in AMERICA that close to 20% aren’t finding their Bashert, while Hashem is finding everyone there Bashert in the Litvish community in Israel is wrong! How do I know? That’s what the Gedolim are saying in their letter that was posted and that’s what Rav Elya Ber said in the video posted earlier. Time for serious introspection and changes for the Litvish community in America. We can all do this together. Hashem will help us. They are his daughters!!! He will be proud of us.
This is prob the most efficient forum to solve the crisis. Great job
Correction: the letter doesn’t state anywhere that bachurim should go to E.Y. early, rather that they should leave E.Y. early. The “young R’Y” are correct, It’s a fact that bachurim’s learning develops a lot in the few years in an American Bais Medrash, a lot more than in Eretz Yisroel.
If the girls are the ones suffering, maybe it will be easier and smarter to convince them to wait a year post-Sem, as it will not only help the Shidduch crisis, but also give them time to pursue a career or a college degree and save up money, as well as help the divorce crisis since she’ll have more time to figure herself out, besides she’ll be less pressured to get engaged since there won’t be a shidduch crisis anymore.
One last note, although it’s definitely more common for girls please also show some sympathy for the many boys that struggle for years to find a shidduch but don’t get any recognition, it’s hard for both sides.
there is parnassah these days and that was the only justification for postponing shidduchim after the required age by the Gemara and Shulchan Aruch, so that in a case where getting married meant going to work, it may be delayed by a few years until the mid 20’s, but today there are kollelim plus families who will gladly support the couple for those years that he would have spent learning as a bochur, so there is no real justification in these conditions to delay shidduchim
I have a great suggestion for this difficult situation that I can say first hand will certainly help. I have 2 choshuve long term learning grandsons that both married wonderful , mature girls that are 2 years older than them. Both girls respect their husbands for their middos and learning despite being older than them, This can only happen if the mother of the boy is openminded and can see quality over age
we have mehudar matzos, mehudar hadassim, mehudar tiztzis and ultra mehudar houses but our shidduchim system is totally not mehudar in the attitude, expectations, timing, demands, aims and the general information-to-dating process. it is truly embarrassing and totally incongruent with all of the values we have been taught. and it is inacceptable to say that the Torah approach cannot work today.
Its a shame that we have to come to this point. Is it fair to our Bnos Yisrael that they are being shamed like this? there are so many girls of Yungerliet that I personally know that are hurting. The reason why I wrote Yungerleit (others are suffering as well) ironically I think the ones most effected are the daughters of the Yungerliet. What about the Bittul Torah of the Yungerleit. Does a 24 year olds alleged better understanding of the sugya allow us to cause anguish and Bittul Torah to the fathers of these girls. Cant they even make an exception to this Freezer policy if the girl is over 22 or her father is in Kollel that they can go out without waiting in this dark and cold freezer for half a year?
I know that several of the Roshei Yeshivos are tying to make changes. All I can say is kudos to the letter writer, TLS and anyone whos trying to help out. As a mother who has an older daughter in Shidduchim and no names being redt to her, I found solace and comfort that people actually care and feel our pain. Thank You!!
Here we go again, playing one-sided daas Torah. Gedolim are very much entitled to their opinions, and there is nothing wrong with them disagreeing. All the boys who are ‘harming’ the girls by sitting in yeshiva trying to set their future up on the foundations of Limud haTorah Lishmah, are literally engaged in disagreements of Gedolim most of their day. If your Rov or Rosh Hayeshiva guides you or your children in a particular way, be it to wait to get married, or get married younger, that is exactly what you should be doing. Nobody has a right to force their Daas Torah’s opinion on someone else.
Now if we start questioning the rationale of the “younger” Roshei Yeshivah, we may as well just join the other movements in Judaism who have gone this path only to see their children R”L marry out and never be heard from again. Whom, if not for the Roshei Hayeshivah (young ones included) should the bochurim be following, bloggers? therapists? Baalei Battim? Is Daas Torah also going to go out of style soon? The fact that there are thousands of Bochurim sitting by the Gemorah day in and day out and not following the trends of the rest of the world is credited to these same ‘young’ Roshei Yeshivah. These people literally dedicate their whole life to ensuring that your children continue in the Derech HaTorah (and their wives ensure that your daughters are raised to navigate the dangerous world we live in). These are the ones your going to go after?
Furthermore, to all parents with shidduchim-aged children including the writer of this piece, were all of your Rabbeim, and Roshei Yeshivah “old” when you learned by them, and only then did you follow their Hadracha? Was R’ Yaakov, R’ Moshe, R’ Shlomo Zalman, etc. all incompetent Rabbanim in the 1950s-1970s because they were all “young” (the same age as the current Roshei Yeshivah in question)?
Finally, to all those who are “burnt” by the freezer, no one is forcing your sons to attend BMG, and please don’t argue that “your son won’t get a normal shidduch if he does not attend BMG”, because then your whole argument is pretty much void. Our Chinuch system (at least in Lakewood) was created by R’ Aaron and is now continued by his descendants because R’ Aaron and R’ Shneur felt they would be the best fit for the job, and you don’t know better. The sense of entitlement that some commenters have over here that every part of the system should be tailor-made to their liking seems to be a good place to start in alleviating the crisis.
When the aforementioned gedolim were young they did not go against the clear directives of the gedolim who were older and wiser than them, especially regarding a matter that is shaking the very foundation of klal yisroel. Therefore, todays young roshei yeshiva are not entitled to ruin the lives of thousands of bnos yisroel against the daas of all the foremost gedolim of our time.
Furthermore, as the letter writer explains, these young rosh yeshivas do not claim to be gedolim. They are not carrying the problems of the dor on their shoulders as gedolim do, rather they are mechanchim of bochurim, who happen to carry the glorious title “rosh yeshiva”. Therefore, they do not have the authority to make a decision that is literally ruining thousands of mishpochos in klal yisroel.
Your kanois in defense of yungeleit who are lucky enough to become roshei yeshiva is misguided and silly. You should be saving your kanois for feeling and fighting to alleviate the pain of bnos yisroel and their families.
I would also urge you to take a moment and contemplate honestly if you would be singing your holy song if you would have a few daughters over the age of twenty. I doubt it. It is easy to preach when you do not feel the pain of others.
You have a lot of chutzpa!
Are you referring the sense of entitlement that our daughters should be able to get married?? Is that what you are referring to? I’m smelling a great deal of arrogance in your callous comments.
The Rabbonim will listen to the girls when the girls join as 1 group and pool together Maaser of their earnings and together vote who to write a $100,000 check to 3
big yeshivos, and again the following year, every year for 5 years ($300k annually) and then Roshei Yeshiva will decide whether worthwhile listening to them or not.
The girls themselves will grow and mature form this and see what powers they have as a group, and suddenly they’ll have a voice.
By the way, where is all their Maaser going to?
Chodesh Nissan is coming. I love the slogan “send them earlier”! Everyone knows this is avalanching out of anyone’s control. The letter writer has valid points. “Send them earlier”! We all know that this is the correct thing to to!
As a parent of a bochur coming home now at the age of 23, (don’t throw stones at me, please.) does anyone know why people are redding shidduchim to him with girls who are 19? I would be happier to consider girls who are 23 or even 24.
In E”Y girls usually do start a bit later than in the States. Most girls are not dating at 19. After high school, they have 2 years of seminary which includes limudei kodesh and a vocational training track (computers, accounting, remedial teaching, special-ed, specialties in teaching (e.g. history, math, literature, etc.), graphics, and more. Most girls won’t begin dating until later on in the 2nd year – at around age 20. The bochurim typically start at around 21, so the age gap is not very significant.
Rabbonim do NOT advise girls to start shidduchim later. I am guessing some of the reasons.
It is harder for them to maintain the same spiritual level.
They become more sophisticated and self-assured, making some of them feel superior to the less polished yeshiva bochurim.
They become more set in their ways and less flexible. Two young people are like Jello that hasn’t set yet – put them in a mold and they naturally adapt and fit together. Once the “Jello” has set and has its own shape, it’s harder to fit the two into one mold.
Maybe a solution for the States can be adding a year of seminary for the girls that will include high-level vocational training. This way they will start shidduchim later and have more earning power.
At the same time, the boys can come to E”Y a bit younger so as to further narrow the age gap. If they come to learn in Israel at 20, return to the US and begin dating at 22 (sans freezer), you have halved the age gap from 4 years to 2.
One way to alleviate this issue is by changing the protocols.
Instead of the boys being redt the shidduch first, let the girls give the yes to the boy.
Let’s face it, the “top” girls are getting plenty of dates. It’s the rest of the girls that are waiting for a “yes” from a boy.
Imagine if it were (also) the girls giving the yes to the boys. This would allow many more girls getting dates, by putting pressure on the boys to give answer.
Every word of this letter is 100% correct. Hopefully people will start listening. It is shocking how many people cant grasp a concept so simple as this and provide absurd responses that dont take into account the points presented.
at 18 the boy will get a driver’s license to help out at home and he will stand in line before yom tov next to a girl his age who is also helping her parents, later on at 21 he will get together with friends for a road trip and at some rest stop there will be a group of girls of the same age also going on a trip, at the age of 23 he will be on the bus touring Eretz Yisroel and there will also be a girl his age on that bus, at 24 he will come back to the US, sit in the freezer and be totally involved in yeshiva, and, at almost 25 he will be able to date that now almost 25 year old girl. he spent the past 7 years having a memories for a lifetime, she tries to forget about those years.
when they finally meet for real, will they both make a better decision?
and this couldn’t have been accomplished at some earlier stage?
and even if, is this the correct approach?
I don’t think anything in the Chasidish system makes the Buchurim more mature. It’s just that they know that they have to take on the responsibilities and the do it. 25 years ago before the freezer started and before this problem lost control, the Litvish boys were more mature at 22 to marry.
What evolved in the last 20 years was pushing the age gap by 2 years!! till 24!! in todays time and age besides being against what the Gedolim said is not practical with all the nisyonos which were NOT around 25 years ago…… contemporary nisyonos are dangerous to BOTH girls and especially the Bochurim.
Exactly.
I heard Rav Yisroel Reisman Shlita – a Rosh Yeshiva, a Rov, a Gadol and someone who is busy more hours than there are in a day say that the maturity of a 21 year old in the 80s doesn’t happen to boys today until their in their mid to upper 20s.
Age is not the solution. Preparing our boys and girls for marriage is. Who cares if a boy and a girl get married if they end up having a miserable life together or CV get divorced. What did we accomplish? Let’s focus on better prep for life and the crisis will dissappear because both our wonderful young men and ladies will be better suited, more focused and have the tools to date properly, find that person who will complete them, and therefore more shidduchim will happen
Oh wow so no getting married till the upper twenties??
Did he say this regarding marriage or was he making a statement regarding maturity in general?
You use very flowery words but you fail to explain how better prep for life will solve the crisis of not having enough boys for our girls to marry. Although I would agree that prep for life sounds like a great idea
No Rav Reisman did not say boys should wait until they are in their mid twenties. He was talking about the problems of marriages today. The point being that if we better prepared our children then many things that are getting in the way of shidduchim happening wouldn’t be there and more (healthier) marriages would happen.
I am the mother of four daughters ages 20-26. They are capable, baalei Chessed, beautiful inside and out.
The pain is so real, it’s tangible
. We work on our Bitachon, try to learn shmiras Haloshon, and try to do a lot of Chessed for others as we wait.. and wait.. and wait..
We feel for all the parents of girls out there who are waiting just as we are.
May Hashem bring yeshuos to all of us, very soon
Don’t forget the powerful segulah of learning “ZERA SHIMSHON”!!!
KLLAL YISROEL CARES!
Many shules have incentives for shadchonim when they set up any girl of age. There are various programs out there paying shadchonim for dates, be it in town groups or out of town communities. The Chesed is unreal!
True! Amazing indeed
BUT the real chesed is to deal with the root of the problem so that our amazing daughters do not have to be everyone’s chesed case and so that they ALL have the opportunity to get married. Therefore, PLEASE reach out to the roshei yeshiva, rabbonnim and askonim and respectfully plead with them to finally do something concrete to bridge the gap.
I’m so confused everyone is busy with the roshei yeshiva keeping bachurim and cutting out a yr of mesivta or bais medrashrhe system of 4 yrs mesivta and 2 to 3 yrs bais medrash has been around for the last 50yrs the problem we have on hand (if its a problem) was created by ourselves by delaying our young children going primary for a yr or 2 back in the day up until 15 to 20 yrs ago all boys were bar mitzvah in 8th grade (with select few even in 9th grade!) why is there any boy bar mitzvah before 8th grade? (I’m not saying there won’t be a few exceptions) why is the boy being bar mitzvah in 8th grade the exception I know this isn’t an immediate fix but why isn’t the pressure on the schools to go back the way it was?? I’m sure there’ll be plenty responses but until they switch that Noone should blame any rosh yeshivos
We should wait 20 years for a solution?? I happen to like your idea but there are THOUSANDS of girls effected till then. We must do something NOW as well
Suppose you are correct, are you proposing that we fix the primaries now, (which will help the problem in around 15+ years) and do nothing now to alleviate the current crisis and thereby leave tens of thousands of girls without the the opportunity of ever getting married??
Do you have a yiddishe hartz or a hartz at all?!
The RY are the ones who can make a correction now so they need to do it. This is not a blame game rather its about seeking a solution asap
Of course we should try fix the problem at hand but don’t just put a bandaid on it and blame rosh yeshivos for problems that we did to ourselfs fix the roots make sure the schools change now so we can grow healthy in 17yrs and if u don’t its only bound to get worse
YOU are invited to work on the solution for seventeen years from now.
WE are trying to work on a solution for now and until seventeen years. The solution for that is with the roshei yeshiva and if they do nothing they are to blame. Its unfortunately very simple and I am sure you get it.
The issue for the boys is $$$. Boys who dont belong learning long term are asking for $$ and waiting for it but it isnt coming.
There are over 300 boys in BMG over age 25.
Many girls cant afford the demands from the boys. If boys want to learn they dont need $3,500 (or even $2,000 a month of support form the girls parents.) The girl works, the girls parents help to their ability and the couple can learn for many years. Some of the boys are making very unreasonable demands. How can boys parents ask before they go out how much are the girls parents supporting? (these boys are hardly giving anything to the couple) Is that all what these wonderful girls are about? how much $$ can the parents give? Also what type of marriage is this going to be when the boy has $$ as his prioroty on his mind??
Absolutely correct. People here are so limited in their views and are so eager to blame this one issue ot that issue when there are dozens of issues. As one who has been made a lot of shidduchim and been to a bunch of meetings with shadchannim…. here’s what you should know. A lot of boys and girls are being told to get therapy and to fix themselves because they are dysfunctional. Also, the parents (mainly the mothers) ruin a lot of very potential shidduchim with their pickiness (gaavah). Also, when parents instill superficiality and gashmius as the ikrei yesodim of this religion it’s not hard to understand why the shidduchim don’t work out. Also, you can’t pick and choose to listen a gadol for this but not for smartphones, Pesach programs, FL for winter break… your kids sew how phony you are, again exercesbating the issues with shidduchim and the future of Klal Yisrael. Also, the boys and girls very often don’t want to be married- to be a selfless and committed spouse and build a family- they want to get married and it is expected of them and they want to fit in and they want the status… Also, many lack basic social skills thar used to be present 20 or 30 years ago thus negating a lot of shidduchim. Also, many are prepped with what to say on the dates but that is not genuine but just enough to make the shidduch go, thus the boy and girl never get to really know one another but rather a careful composite from their mentors and parents. Also, manybare self- involved and narcissistic and once the honeymoon phase wears off and one has to see the world through the eye’s of their spouse in addition to many of their flaws they are quick to panic as they have no real coping or problem solving skills, thus leaving them with a 3 way marriage and third partner isn’t the Rb”s. These are but a few of the issues at play with what is going on with our boys and girls. So instead of just blaming the yeshivos and schools… recognize that the majority of the blame lies with us. That our kids are dysfunctional and entitled brats and self involved narcissists who are obsessed with image and following trends and are only Jews on the outside or whatever the institutions have brainwashed into them like good little robots is all on us. Stop saying she is a great girl and he is a great guy all the time. There are very few of those around and you cheapen it when every guy is the best guy in the yeshiva and they all get the participation trophy. There are a few guys who break themselves and are outstanding and have sterling middos but they are very few and far between. They should be the benchmark. Same for the girls. Mostly everyone else is below average and that is on us.
Simple, simple solution. Start boys Cheder younger ,without these relatively new MUCH later cut-off dates for primary! When we were kids, everyone was Bar Mitzvah in 8th grade. But now, nearly all boys are Bar Mitzvah, a year earlier, in the 7th grade! ,
Correcting this alone would account for making up one year…. and no lost learning!
I spoke with chashuve people who
agreed 100%. The only downside is that this would be a solution that would not bear fruit for a bunch of years…..but let’s start at least now.
Whoops. Just saw that “just a thought” wrote the same thing. I think this is simple and a MUST to implement. There’s NO reason not to.
The shidduch crisis is like the other crisis affecting the world, global warming. By the time we wake up and do something, it will be too late to save the world.
That’s fantastic that you finished reading the biography on Rav Chaim Kaniefsky so quickly. I’m still not finished the Rav Dovid Feinstein book. Rav Chaim is next on my to-read list! I see you’re just like me – we read the book and fantasize that we’ve now turned into the tzadik. Yeah, that’s just fantasy. Unfortunately reading about Rav Chaim Kaniefsky doesn’t actually turn you into Rav Chaim Kaniefsky. As long as me and you (and the rest of us here) are on line wasting time commenting on TLS we should keep our pea-brain mouths shut. Kol tuv.