To my fellow scoop readers.
I’d like to pose a serious question that perhaps someone with halachic knowledge can answer.
For years, every time I see a dangerous driver, for example someone swerving in and out of traffic, speeding etc, I’ve always called police and given in a license plate. Sometimes the person was caught and given a ticket, and hopefully they learned their lesson. (I don’t call about parking issues or things like that, because I don’t really care and it’s not my business.)
Several nights ago, we were talking about this at night seder and someone yelled at me that I’m a moiser.
My question is like this. My intention is not for anyone to get a ticket. My intention is to make sure people aren’t injured or killed in an accident chas vshalom. Is there something wrong with calling police on someone else’s dangerous driving, or is it a mitzvah?
Sincerely, a fellow driver who wants safe roads.
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Since when are people on a website your LOR (Local Orthodox Rabbi)? I understand that you want to bring awareness to this most important issue but to ask it as a a shailoh on a public forum?
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The one asking the question is is not elevating TLS or its readers to the level of posek. He/She is not posting to receive a p’sak. The questioner, it would seem, simply wants to know if anyone has either asked this question before, or if they know of a written or oral teshuvah from one of our great leaders.
im not sure how you can masser without a clear understanding that someone is a roidif, moiser has a din rotzeiach, so for you to masser you need to be clear that someone poses a threat to life, clear, not just that you think so maybe.
murderer
Mitzva
moiser
No. You are 100% correct. You have a mitzvah to call it in as it can potentially save a life.
And they should learn what mesira is. Because this ain’t it.
ok educate us you onan,
mesira is permitted to a roidif,
za masbir how this guy doing 70 on county line is a roidif?????????????????
Actually I remember a statement made in the name of R’ chaim Zttzl that a reckless driver is a rodef.
Not saying that it’s acurate, but “they dont say it about me and you”…
The mishna states that one should have a Rov. Why don’t you pose this question to your Rov?
The one posing the question, it would seem, wants to be informed when bringing the question to his/her Rov.
Ask a Rov, not a website.
I don’t really know the halachos of mesira, but I would think since this a toeles as it’s a makom sakana (you’re looking out for other people so so they won’t get injured) then it’s a mitzva and not being a moser.
you would be wrong for thinking so,
this isn’t like a extra credit situation “since your looking out for others” mesira is retzicha, permittted when someone is a roidef, shoita
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If you really want to know the truth according to Halacha and do what’s right, you would ask a chosen mishpat dayan/rav and not ask this question on this forum and get everyone’s belly ache answers
Let me save everyone time.
The people who drive like a meshugana will say it’s mesirah; the people who are bothered by people driving like meshugana will say it’s not mesirah.
Ask a Rov
I heard personally from Rav Neuwirth author od Shmiras Shabbos kehilchosa that it is not mesira and should be done to safeguard everyone else!!
I heard, from a frum individual who used to work for the city, that he heard from directly from Rov Dovid Feinstein zt”l a similar p’sak on a similar, but not exactly the same, situation.
You should be asking this to a rov not commentators on a blog.
Goose Gossage is usually for the humorous content but this is no joking matter.
You’re certainly not getting a mitzvah but then again like anyone else posting here I’m responding to this while while going גדולים so ask your LOR.
Gossage out!
Mesira
There are two issues:
1. would the ticket really stop the person from doing it again?
In other words, what is the goal here, teaching the driver a lesson hoping he will stop them if he is caught red handed, or is it simply to stop them right there and then only that day?
2. What is the הגדרה of roidef in highway traffic, such that a reckless driver becomes a roidef al pi halacha to be obligated to stop him?
The above can perhaps guide the question that was posted
Seriously??? We got 613 mitzvos leave this one for last….
I’m sure when you call the police u pull over and don’t use your phone while driving….
Maybe call every time someone is doing 66mph on the parkway dina dmalchusa…
Like I said leave this for last..
ha, you can say this about someone who has mazel adumim, of who the torah tells us should be a shochet.
why? maybe he should just focus on the other 612?
Well it seems like if you have something that speaks to your nature, you should deal with it in kind.
Therefore, it is commendable that he wants to know if this is a way to satisfy his nature through a mitzva, or an aveira which urge must be fought against.
Aha
During Covid Reb Elya ber shlita was asked if calling the police on people making minyanim was a mitzva or not? He said last time I checked “zochen vus brenen tzu ton kumen nisht fon der yetzer gov”
Thats right, not everything comes from the Yetzer tov.
Some things are correct even from the Yetzer hara.
Laavod Bishnei Yitzrecha…
why to leave this one well for starter the oinish if by far chance that the guy your reporting dosent have a din roitzeach is kores yes you the good guy in this story in your view have kores. see you in mitzrayim pendecho
why don’t you contact Bais Hora’ah of Lakewood. You can ask your shaila anonymously.
The fact that he is posing this question here (on a website, which open to the wife public, and certainly used to illicit HATE) already shows that’s it’s not coming from a good place….
Safek if the guy you claim is driving wild to Vadai him getting punished maybe more than he deserves (besides the question of moiser, there can be more issues than this)
One needs a competent Rav and wide shoulders
Some times doing what’s right also needs to be done with such purity not to be hurt by its consequences
So before acheinu plapel out encouraging answers to the questioner think twice because you may be oiver Lifnei Iver
so, your wrong.
It could be he asked it here because he wants “hock”
Or it could be he is the type that needs feedback from many by nature. (notice how he was saying he was talking about it in (seemingly) a group setting.
I happen to be the same way.
I come here for public sentiment.
But yes, He should ask a rav.
totally agree where have we gotten to??!
Can you ask the shaila from a Rov or one who can pasken and quote actual words. Obviously, you’d need to give his name, too, to make it plausible. Maybe the Bais Horaah.
if someone answers this question he should be embarrassed of himself. let halacha be asked to the correct people, not just anyone that has access to the internet
Keep in mind the old adage: the way to hell is paved with good intentions.
maskim
there is NEVER a heter for mesira. I recall the Aguda put out guidelines when it came to alleged abuse of children and it required asking not only your rav but a posek and a school administrator in advance as we dont want to damage anyone’s reputation, so the answer is NO.
Abuse of children is probably different than in this case.
as someone whose family members were hit and injured by a (i am sure a very nice and learned person) there needs to be the rule of law in lakewood. and if this will help people obey the rules then i would assume its a matter of pikuach nefesh…
A fellow yid was pulled over in NJ a few years ago for a broken tail light. His registration was expired and he was jailed, and there he was killed, the cameras somehow weren’t working. You decide.
Really jailed for expired registration?
I can tell from the comments who is a sakana driver and who is not, I’ve witnessed countless of these drivers on a daily basis and yes they have no care for safety aggressively driving is extremely dangerous and needs to be stopped
And I’m sure you’re the safest driver of all, please…….and just fyi when ppl think they are driving safe there are plenty of times it’s just the opposite. Don’t be the police and let the police do their job
If you see reckless driving, for example someone swerving in and out of traffic, cutting people off, do you want to wait for the police before it causes an accident?
mesira is murder. do you want every time your little daughter texts while driving for someone to kill her? mesira applies to a roidef, which your allowed to bury. so if you can bury them then yes you can also masser on them, i dont think youd be so sure as to pull the trigger verse calling the police to report that someone drove in a way that offended you, while sitting in your plush sienna on your way to watch some tv show
Nobody is asking posters to paskin. The question is whether anyone on the community has been through the sugya, asked the shailah, and has mareh mikomos.
if chas vishalom one kills someone with a car (hit and run) and you saw it, would you still habe questions about mesira, or just let the wild animal behind the wheel keep driving until he kills someone else. stop with the mesira amei hoaratzes. a threat to public safety is a threat to public safety peroid.
It is not mesirah and a dangerous driver should be warned first and if he does not listen, he should be reported to the police. See Shu’t Minchas Yitzchok 8:148, Shu’t Teshuvos V’Hanhagos 1:850, Pischei Choshen Nezikin 4 ha’oro 22. Rav Z N Goldberg also held this way. I also heard the same psak personally from Dayan Chaim Kohn of Washington Heights and Rosh Machon L’Choshen Mishpot. Rav Y Zilberstein shlita also holds like this.
calling police for people using disabled parking spots illegally or removing them permanently or altering signage is not mesira. PSAK halacha from Poskim that have been publised in the past
You are stealing from those who are disabled with an issued placard and cannot park. They cannot shop or come out to shop or pray or attend events/weddings/gatherings if others use illegally the minimal designated disabled spots.
Every building gets a CO condition based on sufficient parking for disabled and markings and signage maintained. Anyone using such spots at anytime is stealing. GEZAYLA – in the name of a big rosh yeshiva
You forgot to add that did a autopsy and he never got buried in a jewish place and the next of kin was never notified no kadish or shivah ever occured and now they need money to help locate the next of kin plus to some one in Israel to learn minshnayis for this annon neshamah. If you have info on his name and his father’s full name please post it. No last names please.
I have a better question. Is the person that you are calling the police about a rodeph. It would appear that not only can you call the police you could kill him. The guy runs a red light, he’s taking a chance of killing someone.
ASK A RAV………
CLOWN!
Hi I’m the rav of the scoo from 107.9 Babylon bee. mesira is a rough question as there aren’t many gemaros and poskim on these situations so good question. I was wondering about head lights too people should check periodically to see if it’s working otherwise it’s dangerous.
no offense but toeles applies to lashon hara not mesira (which is akin to murder/roidif) be careful when you throw out your ignoramous agendas
your only allowed to masser on someone when
1- he poses an active threat to life
2- hes stealing YOUR money, and its the only way for you to stop him.
(if hes stealing someone elses mmoney you have to sit on the side)
the reason is cause mesira is akin to murder, a moiser gets put down in the mikva, and unless hes massering on a roidef;which in case would be a guy with a sledgehammer and intent to split someones head open, he gets put down in the mikva, so yes your a moiser, your children wont be frum, and youve already acquired kores for youself many times. as in zero percent of reality was every call you made on a active threat to life, and the primary reason you engage in this behavior is because you dont approve of that drivers attitude and way of life,
DId you ever learn the Halachos? From your answer it seems like you didn’t. Rather, you heard various things throughout the years, fifth hand, maybe learned a Gemara or two, and you consider yourself a fartegeh posek, ready to rule on Dinei Nefashos! The Gemara has an expression for these types of people… Mevalei Olam
💯 100% mitzvah!!
I do the same.
I would say ask yourself if you were the one speeding would you want someone to call the police on you or not after you answer the question honestly you can do what you decide. Also if your just trying to help them maybe you should pay their tickets and take their points and pay for their lawyer but first ask yourself that question
Which night Seder do you go to?
I want to come at tell at you also!
Perhaps I’ll bring a fat sign the says “moiser” with an arrow underneath and hold it over your head.
Gossage out!
I think the correct middle road is if you know that this person is a regular speeder or whatever regular danger he poses , then first try to speak directly to his heart and explain the issue with him directly before snitchen;) otherwise for all we know he has his baby in the back seat running 105 fever Chas vsholom or whatever or some other serious situation we do not know about. How can we snitch until we know all the conditions why he Kight behaving erratically. Also if this guy is a regular snitcher that don’t sound too good !!!