Letter: I Moved to Lakewood for the Ruchniyus; I’m Looking to Move Because of the Gashmius

Dear fellow Lakewooders,

I am writing to share with you a difficult decision I have made. Over 20 years ago, I moved to Lakewood with a dream of immersing myself in Torah learning and spiritual growth. The town’s vibrant atmosphere drew me in, and I was privileged to spend many years growing and developing in this special place.

However, as time passed, I have witnessed a shift in the town’s focus. The emphasis on materialism and Gashmius has grown, and I find myself yearning for a community that prioritizes spiritual growth and Torah learning above all else.

After much contemplation, I have decided to relocate to a town that better aligns with my values and aspirations. I am seeking a community that fosters a deep connection to Torah and a stronger focus on Ruchniyus.

If you have any suggestions or recommendations for such a town, I would be grateful to hear them. Some of the qualities I am looking for include:

– A strong Torah learning environment

– A community that does not have dozens of eateries

– A community that prioritizes Ruchniyus

– A warm and welcoming atmosphere

– Affordable living and a reasonable cost of living

If you have experience or knowledge about these or other towns that might fit what I am looking for, please share your insights with me.

Sincerely,

A simple man.

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119 COMMENTS

    • No distractions, no kidding! You must be badchan!
      But in LKWD too, you can look away from distractions. Still, it’s true, we should all get involved being more welcoming.

  6. I suggest looking into Staten Island. They opened a new elementary school recently which has been very successful and the community all around fits your description.

  7. Sure move to Tom’s River.

    There’s only 1-2 eateries. They don’t even have a supermarket.
    There’s Many shuls, a few Mikvahs total Torah atmosphere.

    You will love it

  8. Lakewood is not for you if you can’t see the beauty! Thank you Lakewood when I want to stay home I can get kosher food delivered to my door and if I ever want to venture out I don’t need to drive far! My husband has a Minyan whenever he wants my girls have amazing friends..My son had 52 yeshivas to pick from..this is the biggest kiddush Hashem! I love Lakewood. Sorry u can’t appreciate something good when you have it.

    • 52 yeshivas to pick from …. Seriously. I bet you only considered 1 for your son and never could get into the other 51 . I have also noticed the major decline in Lakewood over the past 20+ years. Lakewood is completely Gashmius. Enjoy the blindfold. Just watch out for your kids. Appreciate something good….. that would be what?? The dozens upon dozens of EXPENSIVE restaurants ? The dozens of fancy clothing stores the dozens of other Gashmius stores…. Oh please

  9. Obviously we are dealing with someone who is still in touch with his ruchniyus that that he is absolutely clueless as to what communities are around.
    This person is solely motivated by his desire to learn non stop uninterrupted. This letter is certainly not an egotistical exercise or based on the last requirement (being affordable). I’m sure this person can afford to cover all his expenses and is simply seeking a simpler lifestyle.

    Therefore, I will call to his attention the wonderful community in south Fallsburg as well as the less prestigious but equally Torahdik Bensalem.

    More realistically, grow up!

      • Maybe you’re right, but maybe when a person puts his foot out, he’d better watch.
        Also, you sometimes wonder if all letters are authentic or just to ‘stir the pot’.

      • It’s not triggering, it’s asinine.

        If the letter writer was actually serious he would be engaging this conversation with his close family, friends and rabbeim. Instead, he is pretending and virtue signaling by bringing up a conversation that he does not actually intend to act to upon while stirring up a juicy conversation.

        We all know that R’ Aharon wanted Lakewood to be a remote refuge for Torah without any distractions. Everyone knows that R’ Nosson made an effort to keep life in town simple.

        But the reality is, that through families settling down and growing, through the phenomenal migration of all walks of life to our town, the once sleepy resort has grown into a burgeoning metropolis.

        So, short of coming in and evicting thousands of families to bring Lakewood back to your ideal, the only options are to grow up and accept it, or pick up and move out. And moving out doesn’t require much fanfare.

        But, as I alluded to prior, in all likelihood this letter was more a bitter cry over the economics of the massive influx of newcomers plus the inflation we are all experiencing. But that doesn’t excuse shamelessly blasting the wonderful Jews who have come to our beautiful little town to enjoy a beautiful little Torahdike town. While it may not be the austere Torah environment you claim to crave, there are still thousands upon thousands of bnei Torah who are learning, teaching, and supporting Torah in a way that has rarely, if ever been seen before in history.

        Our current galus has been long and dark, but a few kosher eateries is hardly the worst of it.

  12. Many people are moving to Cleveland, OH. It’s a thriving community with amazing schools that are easy to get into. You can find a house for less than $300,000 plus you can get school tuition vouchers. Cleveland is proud to have more kollelim than eateries.

        • That’s such a lie!!! Did you do a survey and make sure this is fact?? How can you be motzi shem ra like that about thousands of kollelim?? I for one know plenty of kollel families who live very simply, not at all gashmiyusdig. It’s disgusting that you can even say such a thing like that about our b’nei Torah!!!

        • why wasn’t my comment published? You guys don’t have a problem with posting the above slanderous comment, but you have a problem posting my comment that calls him out on it??

    • Lakewood essentially does too (have more kollelim than eateries – I think!), as virtually every shul has some kollel; besides BMG and other kollelim and yeshivos

  13. Dear writer, I’m sorry that you don’t feel like the Lakewood of today is the Lakewood you were yearning for all those years ago but I think this letter is plain wrong and honestly offensive to all the chashuv Bnei Torah who sit and learn day and night in one of the numerous yeshiva buildings in Lakewood! You look at the negative of the town and choose to see the other part of the community who might be more into the lavish things in life but why don’t you look at all the good of the community! We bh have so many beautiful kollelim and yeshivas with all the things you talk about wanting and caring so much about (and we have such special bala batim who give so much to keep these yeshivas open and thriving) so maybe stop getting jealous about other peoples lifestyles and focus on you. If you want all the things you talk about you definitely can find it in such a big place like Lakewood but if you want to look for negatives there will always be some. There’s a famous quote the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence…. I hope that wherever you end up the grass is greener but I also want you to know that if you learn to shift your focus to a more positive viewpoint I think you’ll be happily surprised at what amazing things you’ll learn and see! Hatzlacha in your new town!

  19. Norfolk Va. Checks all the boxes. Warm community and terrific kollel but maybe hard to acclimate older children to such a simple easygoing town.

  20. I completely understand how you feel and completely agree with you and honestly it’s really sad what happened to Lakewood that was originally started by Harav Aharon Kotler ZTL for people to devote their life to Torah and ruchnius and raise a frum Torah family. But today sadly that has all changed, BMG might have thousands of more talmidim than 10 or 20 years ago but the kedusha of the community has changed to a town of physical pleasure and gashmius from expensive restaurants to fancy clothing stores etc …

    My honest advice as a original Lakewood born and raised in Lakewood and watched it change over to a town of gashmius is to move to Detroit or Denver or Boston, these are beautiful frum torah communities with a full frum chinuch system and they might even have 1 or 2 restaurants for once in a while but these communities are devoted to Torah and ruchnius.

    May Hashem give you lots of hatzlacha

  21. I have no idea i this is a genuine letter or not, but boy its true and so many agree with its sentiment. You will have mockers and cynical responders, but truth resonates. The mockers will mostly be those who fear the restrictions that the truth would place upon them. But those not enslaved by the shackles of materialism and blinded by its glittering light will surely appreciate your words and mourn the lose of the purity of the Lakewood of old.

  25. Many out of town places with many of these qualities would welcome you with open arms.

    Texas, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Chicago, Idaho… vechulu many of these places have kollels and would appreciate such a holy fellow as yourself.

    Hatzlacha on the move, it may be tough having less gashmeeous but it’s worth it!

  26. Move to Fairways or Enclave.

    You can sit and learn in a quite community, friendly people, no stores, no fancy cars ,no looking over
    Your shoulder what’s the next person is wearing ,
    only what is the next person learning!!!

    And please if your serious
    SIGN YOUR NAME

  28. As someone born and bred in Lakewood close to 50 years ago. Watching the yeshiva community turn into a full fledged city with ,as you put it so much gashmius.
    Someone from an out of town Midwest community complained ,that the people coming to a Lakewood kollel in their town ,from Lakewood, brought with the high standards of gashmius as well. Which was very bothersome to that community where the people were trying to remain more ruchnius focused.
    However you should know that if you can keep yourself strong and buck the tide, the amount of Torah and real Chesed In Lakewood is unparalleled. There are terrific schools and yeshivos and just all around good people. If you are more heimish the few rebbas in Lakewood like skulen rachmastrivka viznitz, as well as rabbonim like skverer dayan Belzer dayan etc. and the first chasidisher dayan: the satmar dayan ,are all real people to look up to and connect to, which could help you keep focusing on your ruchnius in Lakewood. Don’t forget the hashpa from the yeshiva the roshei yeshiva and many choshuva rabbonim you can connect with in the yeshiva community as well. It’s all about a frame of mind and focus on what’s right. I am in no way negating what you wrote.
    For a simple yid that is still looking to leave , Detroit and Cleveland are out of town with a Torah infrastructure that you may want to look into.

  29. My 2 cents. Every place is going to have pros and cons. Be aware that if you’re running away from somewhere because of a con it will probably be replaced by a different con you aren’t aware of. It would probably be a more successful move if you’re looking for specific pros. Not just a lack of specific cons.
    I read again and I see you do actually list some pro’s you’re looking for but it still somehow comes across as running from cons.
    Hatzlacha

  33. how old are you? if you moved 20 yrs ago let’s say you were then at least 30? how is parnassah? you want to retire and learn? and you really think out of town will work for you? shiurim, chavrusos?
    you are willing to make the sacrifices? no meat, milk, no pizza, no takeout in case of emergency? no seforim stores? no clothing stores?
    how about your children? they are socially acclimated, yet are willing to move to a place where there may not be a place for them? no friday night shul? no Bais Yaakov H.S.? no friends the same values, plenty of friends of a different set of values!?!

    why don’t you ask a shaila first?!

    • You seem not to know much about out of town. Every out of town community mentioned in the comments has all the things you write here. Gotta check your facts.

  34. I think Lakewood is whatever you want it to be. Not sure the issue. Sounds like you’re looking for out of town. Lakewood is not out of town.
    Hatzlacha!

    • When reb Aaron came it was. Reb Aaron wanted small, quiet, eidel out of town. That was his issue with White plains, New york. White plains in 1945 was smaller then Lakewood was 1985. So people need to choose: is lakewood the place to be because of what reb Aaron establishd. Is it the place to be because it has the most gashmiyus of any other major frum community.

  38. We have lived here for close to 20 years. We have definitely seen a big expansion in terms of housing and stores but the Torah-true values remain in Lakewood. The schools, the shuls, the rabbanim… can’t be compared to out of town. There are tremendous pros to living in Lakewood that I would not give up on. It’s all in how you see it.

    • Not tehValues of reb Aaron ZAtzal. Anyone that tells you it’s the dream of reb aaron may as well tll you abortion during birth is mutar.

  40. Cleveland Heights, but you may find yourself on same spot in the future – any community in the Lakewood orbit is not an island and is just (x) years behind Lakewood in many respects.

  41. This is what Reb Noson used to cry about when he recited Tikun-Chatzois, with bitter tears.

    He didn’t allow a Pizza store to have tables or chairs, as who know where that would lead to.

  43. You can move to Westgate. We have no peer pressure here, lots of Kollelim and only 2 eateries.

    Anyway, I doubt this is a real letter because if you have kids in school you can’t exactly just pick them all up and move. If you have married kids living nearby, it’s not easy to just leave. If you do not have children, it should be pretty easy to live in your own daled amos and stay away from the gashmius without having to move.

  46. One of the previous Belzer Rebbes was getting married and the Mayor of the town wanted to go to the Chasuna.This bothered the Belzer Rebbe very much.He went to his Father for advice.His Father said to him that it says in Krias Shema ‘Vloi Soisuru Achrei Lvavchem Vachrei Eineichem’-Lchoireh the order should be reversed-First Ones Eyes See and Then Ones
    Heart Wants-And he told him-“If you won’t feel it in your Heart Your Eyes Won’t see it”To which the Belzer Rebbe said ‘Avi Nechumti Nechumti’.Vkach Haya-
    The Mayor attended the Chasuna and the Belzer Rebbe didn’t notice him there.
    HAMAYVIN YAVIN.

  47. I live here for 20 years as well. I came for Ruchniyus and I couldn’t have chosen better. Even after I left Kollel to work, and with all of life’s pressures, I’m still able to grow in my Limudim and my Ruchniyus. There’s Torah literally in every corner and it’s the most prized value in my circles. Maybe simply associate yourself with Shuls, Chaburos that are more aligned with your values. Better yet be the one spreading Torah in your circles, schmooze in learning with everyone you meet, and watch the magic happen.

  48. You’re probably living in the wrong neighborhood.

    When my daughter in law was told about a house for sale, she drove down the street and saw how the children were dressed. If the styles looked expensive or lacked Yiddishe chein, she didn’t bother looking at the house.

    You have to make the right choices for you and your family wherever you go!

    • Yeah….In defense of the writer, I live in one of the most yeshivish neighborhoods, daven in one of the most yeshivish minyanim, and my kids went to most prestigious yeshivos in Lakewood and two of my ADULT sons can only talk about big houses, cars, and money….and we are a family of bnei torah for the most part.
      With all the ruchniyus, the gashmiyus destroys it all.

  49. I live in Far Rockaway and we definitely have less gashmiyus however, nowhere in America will you find such a concentration of choshuve Yungerleit. You won’t find anything better. There’s plenty of neighborhoods there that are more Ruchniyus-less gashmiyus geared.

  50. The only place you will surely be happy is yerushalayim. I think otherwise if you have a problem with Lakewood, you will find some other problem elsewhere in the US. There are so many other factors that you have to live with other than your neighbors gashmiyus standards (quality schools, convenience, weather etc)
    Go to Yerushalayim! And you’ll get a mitzva at the same time!

  51. I believe this letter is not real – because nothing is mentioned about children (aka the kids being influenced negatively in a city which the writer considers lacking in ruchniyus) among other indications.
    As to the points raised – even if the letter would be real: Having lived OOT, all the issues mentioned – are all dependent on which community (in Lakewood and its environs) that you are part of, the Rav, and the focus of its social structure. There are affluent neighborhoods, which are very ruchniyusdik, as well as the reverse. And some are friendlier than others. Parnassah, Limud Hatorah, Chesed, and much else, can also be found here more than anywhere else.
    Although the life is somewhat fast paced compared to OOT, the pros overwhelmingly outweigh the cons, even if you were not here for the Yeshivah. And please don’t fool yourself for a moment – every city has its cons.
    And if you are here for the Yeshivah, the benefits are endless and enormous, and obvious to anyone enjoying day in and day out of blissful learning.
    So, unless you are experiencing some crisis, enjoy what you have while you have it.

    • Baloney. Unless you live right by BMG, it’s almost all Gashmiyus, all the time. The fact that there’s almost no family that doesn’t have 2 cars, is gashmiyus. We won’t even go into the types of cars and how many have 4-5 cars.

      • You are simply unaware of reality. There is gashmiyus and there is GASHMIYUS. Two cars is needed to enable the necessary trips back and forth, as in any large city and with two busy parents. You need a house… and a nice one is the same price as an ugly one in many cases. Bayis na’eh marchiv daato shel adam – if done with balance. Use seichel and try to realize the tafkid of our community instead of going off the handle in an unbalanced rant.

  52. A person can and should make themselves happy wherever they are. There is no need to run anywhere. Lakewood has many many Maalos. All places have issues. Live in your own Daled Amos and ignore the Gashmiyos.

        • Ok well for starters, your home has either a smartphone or internet or the man of the house is hanging out in some WiFi cafe! So we might need to slow down on the apology. Get real, our Ruchniyus is overflowing with Gashmiyus, and you know what? I think it’s bring Ruchniyus to places like never before. And not just that, just like you I also use the internet for Ruchniyus. Let’s continue using Hashems Gashmiyus tools to enhance Ruchniyus. Now go back to your online Shiur and stop making us think your someone else

  54. St. Louis, Missouri, or Chesterfield, Missouri. They both have kollelim, no eateries, and a low cost of living.
    Plus, a very warm and welcoming atmosphere!

  56. Make Aliyah to Israel but don’t leave Lakewood for any other place. Other neighborhoods in Lakewood are very suited to meet your needs. If you want to get away from materialism move to A Country Place…just off South Lake Drive….(If you are over 55).

  58. This guy is just “Draying a Kuhp” :
    The most Torah, The most Yeshiva’s, The highest Tznuis level, The most Tzedakah is right here in Lakewood and Brooklyn too.
    All these small cities like Cleveland, Baltimore etc yidden are fleeing from them and coming here.
    In ALL the small inexpensive cities you can’t go outside after dark unless you want to get shot, woman earn $10 an hour and are “Elent” and miserable with their family 1,000 miles away, and the Yeshiva’s are not even as great as the Yeshiva’s here in Lakewood. How could anyone do that to a wife. There are many people like this author, I had tenants like that of which they can’t stay put, they must move every 2 years.

    • You live like an ostrich. Brooklyn is much better. The cost of living is less. Out of towners aren’t miserable. No different then the old Lakewood chevra who takkeh were kol kulo torah. They also never went back home to Brooklyn. It was comparative to a cross country flight.

  60. Happiness and values are within you. It is always easy to criticize. Sounds to me you cannot afford Lakewood which is fine. So no need to bash a wonderful town.
    Why not appreciate all the beautiful things this town offers in ruchnoyus rather than bash it. Which town has Nate midrashim and shuls packed with learners on Shabbos afternoon and every night?
    The glass is half full or half empty. It is for you to chose.
    Hatzlacha.

  61. I’m reading, reading , reading letter , comments , and I have no clue what the issue is.
    Nowhere is this mysterious” gashmius” specifically explained or detailed. What exactly are you’all talking about? Y’all talking in riddles. Can you give concrete examples ?

    • You sound like the drunk guy at the purim seudah who can’t understand why the baal habayis is so upset with all the drunk guys around…..

  62. the gashmiyus is out of control. the problem is, going out of town you will find in towners bring their lifestyle with them and ruin things. dpends which neighborhood and circles you go in. pick the wrong one, and you will suffer. just remember Hashem is the one who put you in the place where you are. maybe you are meant to fight the lifestyle you detest instead of running away and buring your head in the sand. those people who are overboard with their mishugas, maybe THEY Need to have you in their face, proving them wrong. How do you survive? make a chabura of like minded yidden and be michazek each other without kveching. I”ll join bilee neder

  64. It’s a tragedy that Yerushalayim is really not much of an option. My youngest son is in Kollel in Ramat Eshkol. His growing family is squeezed into a 2-bedroom apartment and the rent keeps going up (although his landlord does apologize for this, but that surely doesn’t help). There is NOWHERE for them to move in the city that is affordable, and everything being built is labeled “luxury,” marketed to super
    wealthy Americans.

    Another son just recently bought a house in Flatbush. It’s nothing special and needed renovations. The price: just over a million dollars — totally absurd how little you get for that amount of money. He could only pull it off by borrowing heavily from siblings who were able to pool funds together to help.

    Baltimore, Cleveland, Detroit, Chicago… all suffering from epidemic levels of crime under ruinous Democrat leadership. Good luck in those crumbling cities.

    Bottom line: we are in Golus folks, and there’s no escaping the degeneration of the society surrounding us. If in fact the anticipation of an impending G’eula is real, then hang tight where you are… there is zero future anywhere in this fools Goldene Medina any more.

  68. Everyone has to know themselves. If a person feels he is being pulled in the wrong direction or it shters his growth, then he should move. If he has the wherewithal to be strong and not be swayed by the gashmiyus around him, there is no better place. Be honest with yourself and do as appropriate with the proper guidance of course.
    Hatzlocha!

  69. Move to Gateshead UK. No Restaurant’s. Two small kosher stores. No large houses. In fact, no Gashmius at all – its extraordinarily grim there! Extra Super Yeshivish community with low house prices and dozens of Torah institutions.

    • Agav, there were gevirim there who kep their houses nad clothing and cars simple, yet gave enormous tzedaka and built the mosdos of the city. I’m not saying anything about anyone here, just the facts.
      (And we have to realize there are big gevirim here, who can easily afford much more than they have, but I guess tone it down for the shtut – not to rasie the bar too much.)

  70. I moved from Lakewood to Fatbush years ago my family loves it here in Brooklyn come join us there’s many yeshiva’s and kollelim to join

  71. I moved to Lakewood 26 years ago and strongly empathize with you. My brother moved to Cleveland Height a few years ago and when I visited, I was blown away by the Torahdikeh environment and complete simplicity and lack of gashmiyus. It’s a very warm, accepting community. There is a Vaad that all the Shuls, including the Young Israel adheres to and its like old time Lakewood. A letter goes out and everyone adheres to the takanos. The attitude is, you are welcome to move here as long as you don’t try to to change the community and bring in all the gashmiyus etc. Someone from NY moved in a couple of years ago and tried to open a restaurant against the consent of the Vaad, went out of business and left. The Vaad sent out letters to the Community that no one should patronize the eatery, as it was opened against their consent. If my husband would agree, I would pack up and move in a second. The housing prices are going up fast – almost all the houses sold the past year were to former Lakewooders, yearning for the old Lakewood. I do know that people are getting a little nervous, because they don’t want what happened to Lakewood to happen to Cleveland.

  73. I see aome comments mentioned Yerushalayim, and many comments said Cleveland or Detroit etc. However the most important thing to understand is that this entire universe is Hashems Gashmiyus! We love Hashem and we live with Hashem here on this world. There is Ruchniyos and Gashmiyus everywhere, now there must be some sort of difference in every community or even every neighborhood, but that must be decided by you yourself. Gashmiyus does not have to intimidate Ruchniyus and Ruchniyus doesn’t have to intimidate Gashmiyus. The world is open to your presence, and you may elevate any surroundings you may find. I hope you can find Hashem wherever you may go in this Gashmiyusdika world.

  75. This entire thread is just so discouraging. R’ Yisroel Sorotzkin recently published his “The End Illuminated” series, which brings together a compendium of sources giving evidence that we are, at this time, on the verge of the final geula. So, where is the breathless anticipation of this in the American Golus? Why the heck is anyone making long term commitments to easing life in the Diaspora when the expectation should be: we’re leaving soon…hold tight everyone! Lakewood, Cleveland, Detroit, Waterbury, yada yada yada. Who cares? It’s all just so much nonsense. Is Moshiach going to come to rescue us from a Golus that we hang on to with such planning and perseverance? Yeah, I know the preprogrammed answer: we have to do our hishtadlus to make our lives as comfortable as possible while we’re still here. But…but…we REALLY DO want to leave! Right 😏. I’m sorry, but I just don’t get it!

  76. Sorry but it’s a YOU problem
    Don’t blame other people that you are not growing in yidishkeit, it’s actually very easy to grow and learn in Lakewood, so many options and programs out there. I love how you have these people that point fingers at everyone else for their own problems.

    #endrant

  77. He should take a hike.
    No one invited him, and he doesn’t get to preserve us in amber bc it makes him feel good.
    Strange how he always seems to be moving. Everyone is always disappointing him.

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