Disclosure: From a father of 8 (vaccinated kids), who will rarely join controversial conversations.
A few facts:
1) There are people who vaccinate, with B”H constitutes the majority of us.
2) There are people who won’t vaccinate as part of a movement, and will do their utmost to impose their opinions on the rest, with arguments, printed magazines, comments etc. to try and convince people not to vaccinate.
3) Then there are others – like the student in my brother, a local community Rebbe’s class. He is not up to date on his vaccination, and has not been vaccinated in over a year. Nor are the rest of his siblings. You see, his father passed away within hours of getting a flu shot. A connection? I and most others are not qualified to say.
Facts over, I present my humble opinions:
While they both made a choice not to vaccinate, the difference between the protagonists in fact#2 and the family in fact number 3 could not be further apart.
Those in number 2 are striving with almost a hysteria to try and make you think like them, and change your opinion about inoculations. One can try and argue with them, but from my experience – and I count one of these people as a friend for his other redeeming qualities – don’t bother. It’s like talking to a wall – one that yells back at you and doesn’t let you finish a coherent sentence.
Those in number 3 deserve our compassion. For them, it is simply a trauma that they are currently unable to overcome, and I do not believe that ostracizing them or giving a blanket ruling or threats about allowing them into school are whom the letters published by Rabbanim are directed at.
While number 2 are anything but shy about their opinion on the matter, number 3, and any of those like them with a medical reason are usually quiet about their decisions and certainly not on the campaign to “convert” you. Compassionate people like most of us understand their reasoning and respect their silent suffering.
In conclusion:
Anyone who has ever asked a medical shaila will know that every case has its individual considerations that are taken into account.
I don’t allow my children to play at the home of my friend who won’t vaccinate. I can’t disagree more strongly with his decision, yet still consider him a friend. I even feel bad for him and his family about their block-headedness on the subject. Yet I have long since stopped trying to argue with him about it.
At the same time, those following Da’as Torah or suffering from legitimate medical reasons get my compassion, and I hope you’ll understand why.
Signed,
A father of 8 (vaccinated kids)
Yay
so are you going to get your flu vaccine this year? This is not the first person I’m hearing who died from the flu vaccine. Please do not fall for it! Flu is not dangerous unless you are sick or old, the vaccine has caused deaths and is known to cause guillan buiree which can lead to death and which is a horrible disease, a lot worse than the flu.
The writer is so off based, it boggles the mind…
I can’t speak for all people that don’t vaccinate, but it is really presumptuous to assume you know why all people don’t vaccinate.
From what I know of the people that don’t vaccinate, they are not looking to convince anyone else to vaccinate, although they feel it would be to their benefit.
They simply don’t want YOUR opinion forced on them.
You feel it is important to vaccinate. They feel it is important not to vaccinate. It is important for each one to exercise what he feels is important to him & his family.
To FORCE people who do not want to vaccinate to vaccinate is forcing them to adhere to YOUR opinion. Let’s talk about who is trying to convert who!! Talk about block-headedness…
You want to say that your decision to vaccinate is watered down by the decision of others who decide not to vaccinate, that is true. But that doesn’t give you the right to force your opinion on them. You want to keep your kids safe, keep THEM at home…
I agree with you that there is a difference, but in reality since they both aren’t vaccinated – they both shouldn’t be allowed in schools!
Exactly. I have alot of compassion for the family who lost their father, but practically speaking, they can have a contagious disease just as well as the anti vaxxers. We aren’t keeping unvaccinated kids out of school because we are angry at them. We are keeping them out of school because they pose a danger to the other children. That applies to all unvaccinated children no matter what the reason is.
and neither should immunocompromised children be allowed. As much as its not their fault – their still not vaccinated
Some of them are vaccinated but now had medical procedures done and they have a compromised immune system. If they are in contact with any anti vaxxer kids they can get sick.
well said!
Not here to force you to vaccinate
but GET OUT OF THE PLAYGROUND NOW!!
GET OUT OF SHUL NOW!!
I AM NOT MOICHEL YOU NOT IN THIS WORLD AND NOT IN THE NEXT!!!
Wow!!!
Such an unbelievable display of Ahavas Yisroel.
Do you need a soapbox?
Yes Ahavas Yisroel I love my Family- Responsible Friends and want them to be Alive and Healthy.
Dont use the Ahavas Yisroel card on me when I am doing what the Torah wants … “Reshuim Yechoshlu Bom”
okay don’t be moichel. That’s between you and G-D especially that one where you say not in the next world.
Just curious what are you not moichel on LOL? You are not moichel on the potential hazard a non vaxxers can have on you? So do you bench Goimel every time you avert a potential hazard?
Thank you for the hearty laugh. This was one of the funnier posts so far.
As misguided as those people who’s father sadly died in a incident most probably unrelated to the flu shot he took I say probably because unlike the anti vaxxers I don’t claim to be a Dr…i still feel for them and can understand them but those people are a tiny minority which if we had a 97% vaccination rate they would be covered and I’m happy to do it for them but the problem is all the other people who are just flat out nuts! Those people are the ones I have a problem with those people are ruining it for everyone and by ruining it I don’t mean ruining my chol hamoed outing! I mean they are playing with everyone else’s lives!!
it was most probably related to the flu shot! A healthy father gets a flu shot, and dies the next day???!! But of course it’s “unrelated”, the vaccines are all powerful, and never have side effects! (sarcastic)
I also vaccinate my kids but i want to point out that in my humble opinion, most “anti vaxxers” are not out to convert anyone, they just want to do their own thing or in this case not do their own thing 🙂 Not out to impose any opinions on anyone.
yes, the ones who are pro vaccines are the ones who are imposing their views on the rest.
Um Rina you are imposing your opinions on everyone else by not vaccinating! You are endangering everyone else’s life! I can’t think of a bigger imposition than that!
this is an outright lie! a person who does not vaccinate is not “endangering every one else’s life!” Please!! The person who texts and drives, drives without a seatbelt, drives while tired is endangering others. A healthy person who is not vaccinated is not endangering anyone.
I guess you feel that immunocomprosed people who cannot vaccinate are also endangering others lives.
You are disgusting to say such a thing.
LPD…Just to reiterate… i do vaccinate… so your pronouns are off…
But if u are vaccinated, so his decision to vaccinate or not has very little to do with you..
Oy, that it has come to this! Please, True Yid, take back what you wrote about not being moichel! Hashem will help!
I want to add this as well: I am sure we can all agree that aluminum in our brains would not be a good thing.
So everyone who claims that vaccines that contain aluminum are safe obviously did their own research or relied on someone else’s research.
So please post for all of us to see the studies (or even one study) that shows aluminum injected into children is safe. If you have not done your own research, then please ask the person(s) you are relying on to share the studies with you so you can share it with us.
On the other hand I have done research and have found these studies that all say that the aluminum in vaccines is going to the brain. You can read these articles that state so:
Slow CCL2-dependent translocation of biopersistent particles from muscle to brain (BMC Medicine)
Biopersistence and brain translocation of aluminum adjvants of vaccines (Frontiers from Neurology)
Non-linear dose-response of aluminum hydroxide adjuvant particles: Selective low dose neurotoxicity (Elsevier- Toxicology)
Critical analysis of reference studies on the toxicokinetics of aluminum-based adjuvants (to be published in Journal of Inorganic Biochemistry)
I’m so sorry but the above info was proven incorrect. Listen to Rabbi Dr. Akiva Tatz, who can clearly explain the difference between aluminum in vaccines vs harmful aluminum! And btw the M.M.R. does NOT. CONTAIN ALUMINUM, for all those who have done research! 😉 hatzlochha raba-I’m sure u have good intentions 🙂
Oy – I want to ask you one thing – Aluminum is Not in the MMR Vax – Do you give the MMR vax? If Not, why Not?
To my health, ok aluminum is not in the MMR but the MMR does contain mercury which is extremely dangerous
You left out category number 4.
Those who are educated on this subject and based on that do not vaccinate. We then share this education with others because we actually care.
It’s so simple
It’s not so simple. Better to have kept it to yourself so that this whole thing would not have blown out of proportion
To Pro-choice – You know the other group that goes by that name are baby killers, ie. believe in abortion! And btw, it’s a lie – that mercury is in the MMR Vax.
How do anti-vaxxers pose a danger to others? If they are not sick they won’t pass anything on to others. If they get sick, they stay home until that recover so they won’t pass anything on to others. Maybe those that have weak immunity should be the ones to stay home until this crisis blows over.
@prochoice do you eat fish? The average amount of mercury in a vaccine is about the same as a 3oz can of tuna fish.
STOP EATING FISH! ITS DANGEROUS!!
Just to clarify… the MMR does not contain aluminum or mercury. It does contain other fetal cells and animal products designed to stimulate the immune system. Those who are at risk for auto immune disorders or other genetic predispositions (and dont tell me anyone actually tests their risk before they vaccinate because they dont) can be overly stimulated and cause various conditions. It is a live attenuated virus being injected into 6 month olds (now) and no one is assessing risk factors, nor have safety studies been conducted on injecting MMR into young babies. Merck says so straight on the package inserts. I do hope people understand all sides, pros and cons, with what they are doing before they make blind decisions.
Just correcting the misinformation about aluminum. There is more aluminum in one quart of formula than in vaccines. In the first 6 months of life, babies get twice as much aluminum in breast milk as in vaccines, 10 times as much aluminum from formula as from vaccines, and 30 times as much aluminum in soy milk as in vaccines. This is just one more unresearched, scare-tactic, monmedical argument the anti-vaxxers make – much like the totally false claim about vaccines causing autism. And for the person who said that anti-vaxxers aren’t trying to convert anyone, I guess you’re not reading anything about the vaccine argument!
I will clarify again. There are vaccines that do contain aluminum, but there is a huge difference between injection vs injestion. When aluminum is injested, the body has natural built in (thank you Hashem!) filtration systems, such as the liver, kidneys etc. That filter out unwanted metals and chemicals. When aluminum is injected, the body does not have an inborn wonderous neflaos haborei organs to filter them out as well. Aluminum being injected is not the natural way of the body being exposed to metals. Furthermore, the vaccines include things like polysorbate 80 which is a known stimulant and allows things to cross the blood brain barrier, especially when it is injected (as opposed to Ingested, althiugh I wouldn’t intentionally eat it either), thereby allowing aluminum in susceptible individuals straight access to the brain. The strength of ones gut/ brain barrier is dependent on a multitude of things and again, is not tested before a child gets injected with the vaccines that do contain aluminum. Currently in the US vaccination is a choice, but the pros and cons should be weighed by every parent given the proper knowledge and education.
Clarification – one question I have – I researched the vaccine issue because of the outbreak. You’re a poster child for the Anti-vax movement, but when I looked at the scientific papers – the guy wrote lower levels of Aluminum goes to the brain, but Not Higher Levels. WHY NOT?!?