Dear Camp Directors,
I’d like to start off by thanking you for the amazing summer you are givng our children. From the months and months of preparation to the now around the clock work and attention to detail, your efforts have shown through. Id like to bring up a point for all camp directors to consider for next year.
The nosh buying before trips is completely out of control. It is difficult to tell our children that they will be the only one in their bunks without fancy treats for the trip. So instead, after a long day, the parents are going to the grocery at night with their children to pay for nosh for the weekly trips on top of our already inflated grocery bills. Then, on the bus ride to and from the trip, there are a bunch of cranky kids who are nauseous from all their nosh intake. Not to mention the visits to the dentist after this.
As parents, we are all aware that the camp directors in Lakewood are in touch with each other before registration begins to make sure that the camp prices are all pretty similar so everyone can go up in price together. Once you are discussing prices, if you can all come to an agreement that you will all make a strict rule that for summer 2025, absolutely no nosh will be allowed on any trips. If every camp does this in Lakewood, there wont be anyone saying that they don’t want to go to a certain camp because nosh is not allowed on trips. If anyone is hungry on the trips, a simple snack can be given out from the camp which the camp receives from the government programs. The trip itself is so exciting, what are we teaching our children? How much more spoiled do they have to get?
If the camp directors can all agree on this before summer 2025, they will be doing a tremendous favor to the parents, campers, and counselors (who don’t have to deal with sugar filled campers). The only people who may not be happy with this are the grocery store owners and the dentists. Even if not all camps can agree to this, I think that if a camp does this proposal alone, they will gain tremendous respect from their parent body. Thank you in advance for considering our needs and we are hoping to see a change next summer iyh.
Signed,
A frustrated parent
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Some people love to suck the fun out of everything.
This is an excellent idea that should have been implemented years ago. At the very least there should be a limit to a drink & a candy, not a bagful of sweets.
There is no word fun in the Torah. There is simcha, and there is no need for it to come from junk food. Junk food is an addiction, and anyone would like healthful foods if that’s all they had.
Fun is included in simcha. There is fun on Purim, there is fun at weddings which feature music, dancing, badchans, jugglers. Fun is normal ( of course, if used appropriately) . We ‘re human, and to suppress human traits is most unhealthy.
Are you saying that yidden who lived in Eretz Yisroel during the 2 batei Hamikdash had no fun at all?
For example, at simchas beis Hashoeiva there was giddy joy and fun too. Or did everybody from toddler to old age walk around with serious expressions for a thousand years. There are halachos of whether ball playing or games are permitted on Shabbos & yomtov. Deduce that fun that is permitted every day has parameters on chagim because of muktza and such.
Wow u really think you’re going to fix the world
Not with this laitzanus. Chaza”l say one word of laitzanus takes away one-hundred words of mussar.
Gut Gezokt
Grt advice but not gonna happen lol
If it’s great advice, why not going to happen?!
I also buy my kids Nosh before a trip and it is a bit excessive however to say that you can’t bring anything along is not fair. The whole year my children are in school and get the government snacks, they don’t eat it, and are not allowed to bring their own, they are starving and cranky. At least in Camp they should be able to take whatever snack they like. Maybe the rule can be mizonos, haetz, hadama only. That should take care of the nausea and the dentist bills. Thank you for bringing up this topic
What are the government snacks?
If you live near Westgate, maybe your children can join a Tehillim group on Shabbos.
They have for boys and for girls.
After Tehillim everyone gets tons of nosh and great prizes. You mentioned that you were not excited during the year with government nosh.
Now on Shabbos you will have the opportunity to get a change in quality nosh.
Noone is forcing you to overspend and buy expensive nosh.
I stock my cabinets with an assortment of sweets and snack bags that I buy on sale and the kids are allowed to take a couple things extra depending on the trip.
On late nights they are allowed to bring extra real food. They still usually bring home leftovers.
Why do people in this town always expect other adults to set boundaries for their kids?
I agree there needs to be some kind of limit, I literally spent about $10 for one kid yesterday.
I think camps should give out good nosh on trips, and ban kids bringing nosh. This would control the amount, and the competition.
Thank you for bringing this up. I couldn’t agree more. Overworked parents, working hard to pay for the already high price of day camp and who are exhausted on night don’t need to head out to the grocery store and spend more money to have more kvechiness from the kids. Everyone will be happier without it
Take it easy! Just tell yourself at the beginning of the summer that camp is $25 more because of this extra expense. It’s so much fun to buy the nosh for trips. Don’t be a kill joy!
I am a past camp director. The months and months of prep for camp was too much for me so I gave it up. Camp Directors definitely deserve appreciation of your children enjoyed themselves. I need to take issue with the intentional swipe at camps for colluding in raising the prices together. I don’t know if that was you whole intention of writing this letter or you also wanted to discuss the nosh… Either way it is totally false. We all know the costs of giving your children a better summer than last year and that’s what keeps prices up. Perhaps parents would live with conscience attention to lowering their own living standards, children won’t demand all the nosh their eyes see.
You sound like a young mother. Just wait till your kids get older. The expenses get way more than a bit of nosh. Embrace this now so you will be able to face the bigger issues later. Get used to it.
Ooooor learn how to say no to your kids so that when they’re older they don’t expect to get a brand new lease, and kollel trips to EY and Europe.
This is a very valid letter and effects so many of us. Many things in Lakewood can not be changed but there is no reason why the camp directors cant change this. It wont be costing them any money, but will be saving parents time, money and frustration and will create a more wholesome experience for our children. Camp directors, please don’t let u down and please all join together to change this for 2025!
It sure will cost more money if we have to start buying more snacks and things for hundreds of campers ( no the government programs of COVID are over you don’t just get whatever you want anymore and it’s extremely limited) Also how do you plan on making sure the kids aren’t hungry halfway through a bus ride… or at random times. When kids bring snack to school it’s not a problem? We can’t be giving out snacks every hour. Btw most camps do give out snack on the trips but obviously it is not enough for the campers so they bring more of their own. Just let kids enjoy themselves a little in the summer. It’s their vacation from school.
Most schools don’t allow candy, that’s why this insanity is not a problem in the school year as you asked. Additionally, school is not exciting for most children so parents are happy to give their child a bag of chips or super snacks to get them through the day. Day camp itself is supposed to be exciting. No need for all the unnecessary snacks. If you feel like your campers will be hungry on the bus, and you are a responsible day camp director that wants to make everyone happy, make a rule that only fruits and vegetables are allowed as snacks. Every child will survive.
Stop kvetching. It’s like the visiting day kvetching. Those who can should. Those who can’t won’t. Nothing wrong with teaching children to not have everything just because others do.
Yeah, that’s not gonna happen
Knocker
It starts with K and ends with K…
I hear this. I think its a good idea but will it actually be implemented?? probably not and for a few reasons.
My son goes to one of the “big” camps. They are not allowed to bring nosh on the trips. Bus co. doesn’t let, venue to which they are going doesn’t allowed outside food. Settled!
(They did have one “major” trip this summer in which anything was allowed, but there suggestions on the letter home with all the information pertaining to the trip was to please li.it the amount of nosh/candy your son brings on the trip.
This is one of the “big” camps. If they can do it, so can the rest.
Kudos to the entire staff at this incredible camp! My boys had an amazing summer! Thank you!
Sorry about all the typos 🤦🏼♀️
*Limit
I love the cynicism!
My mother was a diabetic. She was born in 1922, and at age 40 (after I was born) she showed signs of diabetes but she refused to see a doctor. When I was a small kids I used to go shopping with her and her first stop was the bakery, when I was age 14 she could no longer walk and she lost vision in one eye, she was nifter when I was 20 years old. As a kid I used to eat up all of her cake myself so she shouldn’t have any and otherwise I was terrified from sugar, I would not eat anything sugary as a kid and thereafter. But that is quite unusual. My mother said that her sweet tooth started as a little girl in the 1920’s when she ate lots of candy.
I feel terrible, but by the way, one of the things we see from this (and many similar stories) is that there was plenty of junk food in the early 1900s. Maybe not as much as today, but plenty, and sugar does terrible things to the body. A lesson that is brought out from this is that this is a big reason that people died from measles – and infectious diseases – as they had such poor health. They were also very poor, and couldn’t afford good, wholesome foods – just had some eggs from their chickens, and white potatoes etc. Slowly, people started eating more healthfully, and water lines were cleansed so diseases spread less, and the death rate from all infectious diseases declined. The measles vaccine first came out in 1963; by 1950, no one was dying from it anymore. So why give a vaccine that has its own risk when it was not necessary? The virus just lasts for a few days, and one gets immunity for life. Everyone got measles by the time they were fifteen at that time. So, we see the vaccines was simply for business. No one was afraid of measles at that time. When the vaccine came out, they made a major advertising campaign, just as with the covid vaccine, and it was then that people began getting afraid of measles.
a couple of times this summer my kids came home and found out there was a trip the next day, and I could not make it out that night… they took stuff from the house and it was fine… had a great time. The hype to buy nosh is the night before, once on the trip they do not need it
ah yes, the nosh crisis. you are right but as they say, you cant fight city hall. They are noshed up in school, on the bus, at bubby and zaidy’s and even one dentist I know serves ice cream. then of course there is the mantra “but the other kid has……
wishing you hatzlocha
Send to Camp Kesher where nosh for trip isn’t needed. There’s even a reminder in a cute way on the hotline before the trip.
Thanks! Rabbi Reifman Rabbi Neuhaus and the talking animal who broke out color war!
After purim I take most of my kid’s nosh they got and hide it somewhere. Then, before they go on trips for the remainder of the year, I let them choose nosh for their trip from the bag. They are allowed to take 2 noshes, a snack, and a powerade and they are thrilled. They also don’t want to take more because then they might run out of nosh in their bag and they won’t have any more nosh for their next trip. No last-minute running to the groceries! Granted, my kids are still young, but so far it’s working for us!
I don’t think that’s very feasible and half the fun of the trip is the candy.
For my kids of all ages I buy a lot of individual candy throughout the season and special snackbags and pringles etc. as they go on sale. I also buy gatorade and soda bottles in Walmart since it cheaper. For each trip they can get a drink and a few candy depending on the length of the trip.
For an overnight we did a trip to the grocery.
This has worked very well for my family and I told it to other people and it worked for them as well.
My advice is the best way to change this is by leading by example.
Send your child with large bags of celery sticks & baby carrots. Enough for everyone on the bus. Instruct your child to ask every camper on the bus if they’d prefer a healthy snack instead of sugary junk.
Your child will be the most popular kid in the camp.
Great letter! This is something that can most definitely happen if the camp directors allow it to. This is not like complaining about the traffic and saying widen Route 9 which everyone knows will never happen. A small problem that can actually be easily fixed by having all camp directors simply saying no nosh on trips, making parents and campers happier and more wholesome in the long run.
Thank you Lakewood scoop for posting this great letter! I love this idea and I think many other mothers would appreciate it to. Besides for all the reasons why its difficult to have last minute runs to groceries and the extra high prices, let’s teach our children to appreciate the excitement of the actual trip and that the excitement should not be dependent on the nosh that comes along with it.
Finally someone says what we’ve all been thinking. How in the world are we supposed to afford 2 Teslas, a full time housekeeper, takeout food for supper every night, a large meat board for Shabbos and snack for the kids’ trip!? The line has to be drawn somewhere.
100%.
Isn’t it amazing how easy it is to fix issues as long as someone else has to take care of it?
I literally
Said this to my friend yesterday- I wish the camps
Would ban altogether candy on the trips!
The culture of bringing large bags of candy on a trip is a distraction to the true joy of the trip.
While we are on the topic, I would love to see the camps put out a letter telling parents that in order to ride bikes to camp the boys must come with a helmet.
And lastly, on streets like oak and spruce – there should be camp crossing guards to help the children cross the streets. Seeing 8 and 10 years trying to independently manage the traffic is frightening.
I asked my rov and he paskened (for our family, I don’t know if this would apply to other families as well) that I am halachacly permitted- on my own! – to insist my son wears a helmet when riding his bike. Most poskim do hold only camp directors may insist on this but I follow my rov.
This must be humor..!
Go Camp Chevra!
Nosh/candy not allowed on most trips and when it is, they ask that it be limited.
Such a refreshing idea! Everything in Lakewood has to always get bigger and better. I would love to see an idea like this come into fruition, where we actually scale back. Please help us, camp directors!
I agree 100% with the writer. Thank you!! Yes this change makes a lot of sense and easily can be solved if the directors are interested in implementing it.
WE ALL AGREE! Everyone who has a typical kid in a typical Lakewood camp has this pressure!
Anyone writing otherwise either hasn’t personally experienced this, or their child must be extra highly flexible.
I deal with many typical children and mothers AND YOU ARE TOTALLY ON TARGET THAT THIS IS CONSIDERED A STANDARD NORMAL PRESSURE! And if you”stand up to your child” and insist he/she chooses from what you have, your child will most likely feel very deprived.
TRUE, TRUE AN ISSUE!!
And if the camps would do this, or limit it to “one nosh”?! I think many parents would applaud them.
THANK YOU for bringing up!
I wish the camps would tell the poster of this letter how to operate his/her business.
WHY DON’T WE HAVE THE ADULTS FIRST SHOW THE WAY!! LET’S CUT OUT ALL THE “FRESS G’SHEFTS,” AND FACNCY BOUTIQUES TO BY KIDS UNDERWEARS . then worry about the kids Narish noshes, all just to shift the blame on the others!!!! NOTE : it’s “YOUR OWN” fault today’s kids are spoiled rotten, not the camps or schools faults.
We have to consider how these proven poisonus “snacks” get a hechsher.
Not really. (With a few exceptions) Hashgachas decided long ago to focus on the food only. Once they start getting involved in health or Frum or Tsnius issues it’s a never ending slippery slope.
This is true. but it is also important to remember that indeed so. the hechsher means nothing for health!!!
Which are the exceptions? You know of kashrus orgs that turn down junk food?!
I wasn’t talking about exceptions for junk food. I’m talking a (reliable) Hashgacha would not certify a club/bar with mixed dancing.
But as a Mashgiach in the past for a major Hashgacha I worked at many Non-Frum weddings with zero tsnius, a non-Jewish band (with a woman singer) & mixed dancing. My job was to keep the food Kosher not the rest of the wedding.
I knew they wouldn’t certify non tznius, that is why they don’t certify hotels. If so, what were they doing at those weddings?!
But the healthy food they certify is appreciated!
Am in full agreement! Everyone benefits, but no one more than the campers themselves. It would be a great service to our kids who are on the receiving end of so so much, to have this one added feature, removed.
Agreed! Fantastic idea where no one is loosing out and everyone is coming out happier in the long run. We may not be able to change the world, but these small easy changes can benefit us all. Thank you for bringing this point up.
I appreciate the practicality of the letter writer. There is a simple solution here which the camp directors can easily implement.
Wow thank you for writing this letter!! I agree 100%!!
When I was a kid the camp I went to had a variety of snacks and candy that we could take. Each kid got their own bag of nosh
WHY dont us parents get together and decide what prices we are willing to pay daycamps.
If that were to actually happen & the daycamps turned down offer, would they still send to camp?
Camp Azamrah asked that the kids not bring along nosh, and they gave out a nosh on the bus. I was very impressed.
This was for health or expense or shopping time?!
I love how you describe how all camps get together to set prices etc.
Seems you haven’t learned the message from the recent 9 year battle to undo a case that was not even illegal.
Can you imagine if the government found out about this illegal collusion how many people would have major major legal issues???
Monopolies and price setting is a big crime.
So forget about your Pennie’s spend on candies and nosh compared to the potential monies it will cost to defend so many people.
Directors can not even agree on smaller issues and you’re telling me “collusion ” on price fixing. It appears to me that you got your information from Chaim Yankel.
I guess my post is directed to the letter writer.
If that were to actually happen & the daycamps turned down offer, would they still send to camp?
Why don’t they all get together and ban overnights?? Why is it normal a 10 year old has an overnight and the overnight doesn’t even have a plan for sleeping. The kids stay up in camp watching a video and come home exhausted the next day
Is this a joke; your rav paskened that you’re allowed to do chinuch and take care of venishmarten meod?!
I guess you mean it humorously!
This was a response to Chaim – Aug 25, 12am
Most sleepaway camps pay little or nothing to the staff members. They even so far as to charge them if they aren’t eligible for the food programs. They charge you an arm and a leg, but don’t pay staff. Now these teenagers are supposed to be responsible for the well being etc of your 24/7 for 2 months, free of charge. That’s why you need to tip. This is something the Gedolim should outlaw. Abusing teenage staffers during the summer. And parents have to refuse to pay the fees for their teenagers to work.