Lakewood Woman Receives Shocking Note

(Photo of actual note) Dear Editor, I’d like to share the following true episode and request feedback from your loyal readers. Last week, as I walked out of Dr. Shanik’s office, a strange man approached my just 3 year old who was holding my hand. He handed my son a piece of paper and said “Give this to your mother.” Thinking it was a receipt that fell out of my pocketbook, I put in back into my pocket. Upon starting the car, I took out the “receipt” and stared. Written on a flap of an envelope, it said “your skirt does not cover your nees in back.” Now, o.k. I am careful to uphold the tznius standard and I would not even be offended if a woman would point out to me that my skirt does not cover properly when I sit or neck is too low etc. At that moment, horror and shock filled me or truthfully, for a while. I understand the well meaning behind it. But is it appropriate for a strange Lakewood yungerman to write a note and give it to my son – with his message (his two cents). Ladies! How would you react if your husband shared with you what he did on his way out of the Dr. office with your child?? He stared after a woman and even let her know!!!Dear Readers, What do you say??

Still shocked,

Anonymous (for obvious reasons)

P.S. I’m enclosing the original “infamous” paper.

Thank you,

1) there are 2 separate rooms for men and woman so how would he know unless he was looking (even if it was the same room … if something bothers you so much dont look.) If you are on a train and u see 2 people kissing YOU AVERT YOUR EYES!!!

2) You dont give someone a paper that you wrote on ESPECIALLY if you do not know how to spell, it just leads to your embarrassment. If you were so frum to look at her legs and write a note to communicate with her, be normal and tell her to her face. OH if you are too shy to say it, dont write it and DO NOT GIVE IT TO A CHILD TO GIVE TO HER MOTHER. (That overtips the scale of fakers!!)

3)Its not your business and place to say anything so if you feel the need to write a note (you know, to show off how frum you are), start it like that. Something like…"Hi I know this is not my place to say it nor is my business, but i wrote this note just incase you were unaware of the fact that your dress was not covering your KNEES from the back. Sorry to bother you about this, just trying to be considerate. Have a good day."

Oh and by the way GROW UP cuz eventually you will leave that little box taht you live in and realize there is a real world out there and you need to prepare yourself to handle it. There is no escape and you just have to accept it. EVEN if you are a Rabbi and you need to talk to a childs parent and chas visholom you had to speak to his mother cuz his father was not living… YOU WILL HAVE TO TALK TO A GIRL (sorry to bring this to such a surprise.) Im not Pro a guy and girl talking to one another but this was taken WAY TOO FAR. We are a nation of one and we promote marriage and the idea of woman and men talking and comunicating. obviously there is an extent to this and you should keep your mind on torah and mitzvot. but as a teenager, you should not be talking to girls so that you can focus on hashem. But if you need something from a bakery and the person behind the counter was a woman, there is no issur in talking to her. Here too there is no issur to hand her the paper.

111 COMMENTS

Anonymous June 22, 2009 12:50 pm At 12:50 pm

1) there are 2 separate rooms for men and woman so how would he know unless he was looking (even if it was the same room … if something bothers you so much dont look.) If you are on a train and u see 2 people kissing YOU AVERT YOUR EYES!!!

2) You dont give someone a paper that you wrote on ESPECIALLY if you do not know how to spell, it just leads to your embarrassment. If you were so frum to look at her legs and write a note to communicate with her, be normal and tell her to her face. OH if you are too shy to say it, dont write it and DO NOT GIVE IT TO A CHILD TO GIVE TO HER MOTHER. (That overtips the scale of fakers!!)

3)Its not your business and place to say anything so if you feel the need to write a note (you know, to show off how frum you are), start it like that. Something like…"Hi I know this is not my place to say it nor is my business, but i wrote this note just incase you were unaware of the fact that your dress was not covering your KNEES from the back. Sorry to bother you about this, just trying to be considerate. Have a good day."

Oh and by the way GROW UP cuz eventually you will leave that little box taht you live in and realize there is a real world out there and you need to prepare yourself to handle it. There is no escape and you just have to accept it. EVEN if you are a Rabbi and you need to talk to a childs parent and chas visholom you had to speak to his mother cuz his father was not living… YOU WILL HAVE TO TALK TO A GIRL (sorry to bring this to such a surprise.) Im not Pro a guy and girl talking to one another but this was taken WAY TOO FAR. We are a nation of one and we promote marriage and the idea of woman and men talking and comunicating. obviously there is an extent to this and you should keep your mind on torah and mitzvot. but as a teenager, you should not be talking to girls so that you can focus on hashem. But if you need something from a bakery and the person behind the counter was a woman, there is no issur in talking to her. Here too there is no issur to hand her the paper.
Moshe June 22, 2009 1:37 pm At 1:37 pm

"…and the fact that she was so outraged shows a bit of her true inner self. (perhaps she didn't want to be called on her tznius…)"

Really? How did you come up with such a brilliant deduction?
So if someone comes over to me and says that I'm a shaigetz because I trim my beard and I tell him to mind his #$%@ business, that means I think he's right?!
I'm surprised that there is even a questions if he was right or not. He most defiantely was. June 22, 2009 2:31 pm At 2:31 pm

"So if someone comes over to me and says that I'm a shaigetz because I trim my beard and I tell him to mind his #$%@ business, that means I think he's right?!"

Of course not. No one said she was a shaigetz. No one called her a whore. No one said anything derogative to her at all. This wasn't someone saying "Hey lady, You're a zonah cuz you're skirt is too short.

If someone comes over to you and tells you your yarmulka fell off would you tell him to #$%@ off?

In addition to that you're mixing a gray area and a black area.
A woman showing her knees is wrong
Trimming your beard is you're own business… Its not like you'll be tempting anyone…

Two completely different issues that are not comparable!
Moshe June 22, 2009 3:40 pm At 3:40 pm

Nice going changing the subject. You claimed she "didn't want to be called on her tznius". In other words, you claim that her reaction was an admission of guilt while I told you that her reaction was about the guy's disrespect.

If you have problems with reading comprehension, go back to school.
Anonymous June 22, 2009 3:53 pm At 3:53 pm

Clearly you just want to argue so I wont even bother

Wtvr.
I'm surprised that there is even a questions if he was right or not. He most defiantely was. June 22, 2009 4:08 pm At 4:08 pm

On second though I will answer.

I never said she it was an admission of guilt.

All I'm saying is the truth hits home and if it bothered her so much PERHAPS there is a reason it does.

As for the guy I don't think he was disrespectful at all. Again its not like he said Hey woman you're a zonah cuz you're skirt isn't tznius.
But I guess thats a matter of opinion.

Might I also add that you don't know me and I don't know you and you're rather rude for a stranger.
"Go back to school"? You may want to use some manners when communicating with strangers.
Simmy June 29, 2009 6:57 pm At 6:57 pm

wow – this was hysterical. clearly some comments had much thought and insight into them. clearly others didnt. either way – the reading was so captivating that i forgot to watch the tv show i was all excited about so you have all saved a little bit of my neshama. thanks!
Anonymous June 30, 2009 12:17 pm At 12:17 pm

I don't have the solution to this problem. The problem is not just tznius, but also some of the comments here that appear somewhat un-tznius..the yelling..the loud complaining. One small suggestion that might help (but not intended to be a total solution). Please try gentleness. Tznius is something that must come from an internal desire to make a kiddush HaShem, however small and unnoticed it might be. (Hashem will notice! just not other people) Therefore one must seek and address the root causes of un-tznius behavior, in a private and gentle way. Any sort of coercion is only a band-aid solution, which is NO SOLUTION at all! So I don't have the answers, but one must encourage one to have good middos, and *then* tznius will follow naturally. This is the more challenging, long term approach.
chanie August 5, 2009 1:41 am At 1:41 am

First- true that "below the knee" and "eight inches above the ankle" leave few lengths to choose from.
I gave up and started buying skirts that end just above the ankle. It's simpler than trying to keep my knees covered because I'm wearing a skirt that is short enough to be considered okay.

And no, I don't think I'll be embarrassed by my tznius when I greet Moshiach. By other things, perhaps. Not by the way I dress.
Thanks anyways, though.
hk October 12, 2009 1:15 am At 1:15 am

Wow, guess what!? i am that lady who wrote the original letter. I didn’t even know it got published. A relative told me on succos. Don’t have internet in my home.. (and you all comment writers think i’m all bad..) so let me say a few points. Firstly, the man was not near me in the dr. office. we just left at the same time..secondly, the question was very direct. was it appropriate for him to do that.. i did get some answers to that question which i can understand but then again, got some ridiculous responses like.. ppl like me that can’t uphold the lkwd standards should move etc.. so let me be clear. I had no problem accepting the message. It was HOW it was given that upset me. I am quite sensitive and i did not feel it was the proper way.. and no, i never walked into the store(s) mentioned in the comments.. I DO NOT dress that way AT ALL. Read and RE-read my letter before you start bashing me and my tznius standards. I remain, HK
Reality Check June 30, 2010 11:58 pm At 11:58 pm

My question is, why is he checking out someone who isn’t his wife? That’s not very becoming. I’m sure whatever she was wearing was probably not even close to being short enough to be a mini skirt, so don’t go there with the “she was attracting his attention!” comments. This man obviously has trouble coming to terms with his own taivos, and feels a need to take it out on this woman. If you all agree with him, may I suggest women also wear burkas, and not be allowed out in public? If you don’t like it, move to Fallujah, Afghanistan and go live with the Taliban.

Women will be inspired to improve their tznius when they see examples of women who are real tznuyot. I hate to break it to everyone, but you’re most certainly will NOT be inspiring women to better their mode of dress by leaving notes like this or making passive-aggressive comments. If anything, it’s making a gigantic chillul H-shem. I doubt this woman wants to cover up more now that she read this note; if anything, she probably feels a lot of resentment.

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