Can Someone Explain?

Submitted: I’m writing in response to this story:

https://thelakewoodscoop.com/news/update-zman-technologies-statement-on-ge-ovens-certification/

Until recently, GE was selling ovens with OU/CRC certification that did NOT need the Zman Technologies “Shabbos Keeper” device. They didn’t have the entire calendar though 2050 built in, but they were very functional and worked well. They had shabbos only, or shabbos + yomtov modes which work very well. (see below for the “Sab” vs SH vs SHH vs HS modes)

I have attached one of the manuals (see page 12). GE had “OU/CRC” Sabbath Mode, and “Standard” Sabbath Mode versions.

If you review the OU/CRC Sabbath Mode version, you will quickly see that it is the SAME features as the Zman Technologies device.  The difference?  It’s built in and you don’t have to spend over $200 for an extra device.

Moreover, all the new GE models that use the Shabbos Keeper device are $300-400 more than the old versions that had the same features built in.  if you go on the GE website and look up these models, they still show that the OU/CRC Sabbath Mode (built in) are available in their Owner’s Manuals:

https://www.geappliances.com/appliance/GE-30-Slide-In-Front-Control-Gas-Range-JGSS66SELSS

This is very strange. Someone should ask why the original OU/CRC oven models, that are effectively $500-600 cheaper, are no longer certified and why should someone have to spend so much more to get a yomtov friendly oven with the same features as this $200 add on gadget?

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9 COMMENTS

  1. zman technologies basically went around the hasghacha and did an exclusive deal with GE to solely use zman tech and upcharge the unit. GE makes more and man gets paid and everyone is happy except the consumer . There is zero upside for the consumer That’s it

  2. Your “old fashion” Shabbos mode does not meet some very basic halacha requirements. Many rabbonim have spoken about this.
    Just talk to any knowledgeable appliance technician or dealer to find out what exactly your Shabbos mode does before using it. For me, I trust the new hisachdus hechsher.

  3. As an appliance and industrial automation technician I can tell you the obvious, zman technologies is a for profit entity whose marketing team knows to advertise what people want to hear. The Mishmerise hashobos in Israel won’t approve their product for the simple reason, they don’t deactivate the thermistors.
    What is troubling about Zman is they’re more than willing to point out the shortcomings of other kashrus organizations however if someone questions their methods, they say its “PROPRIETARY” information that can’t be shared??
    Here is a copy of an email I sent to Zman I’m still awaiting a response.

    “I called the Zman technology for technical details regarding your product, the customer service was unable answer unable to provide me with answers to my questions however he recommended that I send them in an email.
    1) How does the refrigerator controller know the current temperate while in shabbos mode?

    2) What initiates a defrost cycle?

    3) What initiates the compressor to cycle on?

    4) The controller send 5VDC to the thermistor even during shaboss mode. what happens to that circuit? Does it alter the binary code in the controller?

    5) Does the door switch input alter the binary code?

    Any information that you could share would be greatly appreciated.

  4. Maybe as “an appliance and industrial automation technician” you have skin in the game?
    Is it possible you might use some of their answers for a product you are working on or give to a company you’re working with?? Ha. Perhaps that’s why they did not share info. Why should they? I wouldn’t.
    Send your questions to the certifying OU and see if they pull their hechsher. I put money on – they don’t.

    • False advertising then hiding behind proprietary information is not the way a company that claims to be more kosher than everyone else should operate.
      They do not deactivate the sensors, don’t take my word for it, try it out yourself. Disconnect the J1 harness from the control and let me know how the temperature holds up over shabbos.
      The other hashkochos also had “skin” in the game however they never had an issue explaining to their consumers exactly what they’re doing. I have no issue if they advertise that they have a more covenant product that deactivates the buttons, all the respect to them.
      I tried to speak with the OU they didn’t have much info.

  5. Many of the original GE as well as other brands of ovens had their Shabbos modes certified by the star K. Unfortunately, seemingly, for the consumer, GE as well as other brands are now incorporating the zman technology into their ovens. If you read up on it you won’t make as many nasty comments as you were making. There are many questions with the original star K way of doing it. Of course we should all be Modeh, HaRav Heineman is a major talmid xhochem who would only certify this if it was k’halocha.

    I SHOULD POINT OUT HERE THAT THE TERM SHABBOS MODE, IS A MISNOMER. YOU CANNOT COOK ON SHABBOS! YOU CANNOT STICK SOMETHING INTO THE OVEN ON SHABBOS. YOU CANNOT ADJUST THE TEMPERATURES ON SHABBOS. IT SHOULD REALLY BE CALLED “YOM TOV” MODE.

    That being said the new technology is much more enhanced. It goes into an automatic Shabbos type mode every week to ensure that buttons can’t be pressed accidentally etc. It also adjust the temperature automatically based on when people would be cooking, so there is a higher temperature and a lower temperature. The technology and what they do is very interesting.

    As for the course of the ovens when we were looking for an oven about a year ago and this first came out, yes it took TLS a while to catch up I guess, the GE rep I spoke to told me that at first we’re going to have to buy the separate semant technology device for about $250 however the newer ovens we’re going to be manufactured with the technology already built in so that you didn’t have to spend the extra money on the zman technology. The claim was it wasn’t going to be more money.

    As a consumer you should look into what you’re going to buy and if you want to buy it. Don’t rely on the non-certified because, just because the lights go off on the oven doesn’t mean that when you press the buttons on yom rov that you’re causing a groma. For all you know, despite what the oven manufacturer tells you, you could actually be having the temperature adjusted right there which would be assur.

  6. THESE OVENS THAT IS MENTIONED IN THE LINK ABOVE WITH THE BUILD IN SABBATH MODE, YOU SHOULD BE CAREFULL SINCE THEY ONLY COME WITH STEAM CLEAN, AND NOT SELF CLEAN!!!

Comments are closed.