During the past few years, TLS has posted several audio clips and written articles about the difficult situation that our Bnos Yisroel in the Litvish communities in Lakewood and the USA are enduring, and the need for immediate change to the broken “system” which has evolved.
This past week, Rav Gershon Ribner Shlita a prominent Rav and Rosh Yeshiva (son-in-law of Rav Shneur Kotler Zatzal), spoke from the depth of his heart regarding the need to make immediate changes to the Shidduch and Yeshivah system currently in place for the Litvish community in the USA.
Rav Gershon highlighted several practical and meaningful areas that would assist in alleviating the current crisis and catastrophe facing our community. This is one of many suggestions that our Rabbanim and Gedolim have presented to the public.
TLS will continue to do the utmost and continue presenting some of the needed changes that Rav Moshe Hillel Hirsch Shlita and other Gedolim are suggesting, to address the “Shidduch Challenge”. Rav Moshe Hillel publicly stated this was the biggest issue that he encountered during his visits to the USA.
Thank you to TLS for being at the forefront of this painful issue. Look around any neighborhood in Lakewood, this issue has spiraled out of control. R’ Rlya Ber clearly said the last person to blame is the Ribbono Shel Olam. it is a man made problem.
I just listened to the audio. R’ Ribner is of course correct. However, R’ Avrohom Yehoshua cannot be the only one blamed if the system changed in America in the last twenty years and Bochurim are coming to Israel at 22 instead of 20. Another easy fix is to listen to all the Gedolim and eliminate Freezer Policies in the USA completely while sending the Bochurim at a younger age!
The freezer is a few months that’s not the gap we need to fill
Fact. The freezer policy is less than 30 years old. If it is canceled it will go back to 30 years ago that Shidduchim start when the Bochurim are in Israel. R’ Elyashiv R’ Chaim and others begged the American Yeshivah that started less than 30 years ago but they said it would adversely effect Torah in America. It has had a devastating effect. It’s not too late to listen and stop the silly freezer.
Kol HaKavod for posting this. There are so many singles out there. As a Kehillah we are not making changes that the Gedolim of our generation such as R’ Elyashiv, R’ Shmuel Auerbach, R’ Aharon Leib, R’ Chaim Kanievsky and R’ Moshe Sternbuch told us to make. We have to listen to what they said as their heart wrenching letters were posted on TLS multiple times.
Till the community comes together and agrees to make needed changes this status quo of blaming everyone else and deflecting blame will continue. This is Pikuach Nefesh of the highest regard. I salute R’ Ribner for calling for meaningful changes. We cannot continue with this catastrophe.
there is a major problem facing the “Bnei” Yisroel and that is where in the past a boy was bogged down with Regent exams etc and that postponed his getting involved in learning but also provided a secular track which he had to either follow or drop, anyway all the limudei chol kept a certain balance with some intellectual requirements also there used to be real gym sports which is healthy but today we do not require any of that for our boys and in fact many yeshivos do not provide it even though it is definitely beneficial for some of the boys, so the current system must be recalibrated to the today’s environment where boys have achieved a much more mature level of learning by the late teens yet they are missing benefit of distraction that secular studies and sports provided so they really should begin considering shidduchim earlier in order to keep on shteiging and maintain their interest in pure Torah learning without “far from frum” post mature distractions.
If the yeshivas in America made a takana that they won’t accept any bochur returning from EY older than 21 and 1/2 then the result would be the same as Rav AY Soloveitckik not allowing them in . So it’s up to the American Yeshivas to do their job ,assuming this is the correct solution .
I remember that meeting well in R Shmuel Birnbaums home in either 2005 or 2006. You can see many pictures of it online.
This was before the term “shidduch crisis” even existed, and before the age gap theory was even out there to the public.
At that meeting they wanted to push Gedolim to say that boys need to aim to take specifically older girls.
My friend , a big supporter of Mirer Yeshiva was in the room. He told me that Reb Shmuel Birnbaum suspected that he was not being given all the facts and thus he wanted an independent comitte to study all the facts. He smelled some kind of outside agenda here.
His words in yiddish were: “one may not remain silent” , and nothing came out of it.
Now to specifically to his Rebbe R Avrohom Soloveitchik. R Soloveitchik gave out his thoughts very clearly on this last summer when the 4 Rabbis went to Israel to meet with R Landau and R Hirsch.
He said that girls should choose to start dating at 21 if they think they face a problem. He compared this whole thing to buttoning a shirt wrong cause it’s too long one one side.
Long Time Shadchan
It’s very foolish to suggest that girls start dating at an older age. Number one it’s wrong halachicly and number two there’s no way you can control individual people from doing as they please. The freezer is a very obvious reason for this huge problem, if we would allow the free market to work then the boys would each start shiduchim when it works for them and it would alleviate the problem. As a community there is no excuse for us to continue this model where we only support one yeshiva to have as monopoly on the market and they withhold their boys from the shidduch market. It’s a real horrible shame that we don’t stand up to it and insist that either we have other viable yeshiva alternatives or we cancel the freezer
Let’s be able to say ידינו לא שפכו
The freezer lasts a few months. relax.
Those few months destroy the shiduch market. If there are 500 boys coming back for pesach let them marry the girls that are already on the market, not keep them waiting until mid summer when there is another whole grade of girls on the market
About the Lakewood freezer:
When a girl comes back feom seminary in the summer she can have any which lakewood boy she wants. Even the Pesach crop unfreezes around the time when she lands.
What she cannot have is the new crop of boys arriving home next year, as quickly as she wants it. That’s where a 3 month freezer is in effect.
The 3 month BMG freezer which has been around since 1985 has no bearing whatsoever on the shidduch process.
And more importantly, the boys themselves want the freezer.
Your in 1950 or 1960 here.
Speak to most girls today, theyr in no rush to get married personally.
The only pressure they have is the (moderated) created mass panic and hysteria that has lead to many divorces already.
It’s easy to shift the blame to the Israeli rosh yeshiva but the ones who aren’t doing anything are the American roshei yeshiva. 25 years ago no one spent more than 2 years in the rosh yeshivas shiur today some are 4 years!!! In the same shiur. (If the rosh yeshiva says the first year shiur). You need steel pants to be able to sit through that. But it’s not by choice. The rosh yeshiva will not help you get into yeshiva in eretz yisrael unless you are the fourth year bachur. So they just sit and wait. I have a half dozen boys in the system, this is the reality.
This is a true challenge. I think all Rabbanim should discuss this in their Shabbos HaGadol Derashos. R’ Elya Ber said: Parents who have boys and holding them back from dating till they are 24-25 are the same parents who have older daughters. If you don’t start your son earlier you have no right to complain about the Shidduch crises.
With all due respect, there are a few issues with R’Ribner’s suggestion:
1. This is only for the future, so that there will be no increasing shidduch crisis going further. This is not taking care of all the older singles who are currently in pain.
2. R’Avraham Yehoshua is not the only Rosh Yeshiva who makes decisions and not necessarily will every Rosh Yeshiva (of American bochurim) in Eretz Yisroel follow his lead.
3. One of the reasons why bochurim go to learn in EY as it molds you into a more mature bochur. There needs to be a system in America implemented first to address that issue.
4. Many bochurim who go to EY after they’re married have already dealt with the culture, having learned there as a bochur. If nobody will go to EY to learn until after they are married, then they’ll have to deal with it then, along with getting used to married life. (This is not a bad thing per se, but something to be aware of.)
The current situation of close to 20% of the Litvish girls not having a Bashert mathematically (unless you are mattir Cherem D’Rabbenu Gershom and permit a man to have multiple wives) is a lot worse for Klal Yisroel. Last one to blame is Hashem. If we don’t bring Bochurim back from Israel till they are 24 there is no solution. We have to start Bochurim early and eliminate all American Freezers in the Yeshivos. The Freezer policies are less than 30 years young. It is a failed system with it.
To enlighten you-
the girls who are not getting shidduchim are the older girls. There are many older singles currently. Bringing back bochurim early will only help the younger girls get shidduchim (this has been agreen on by many rabbanim).
Also, There is only one yeshiva that has the freezer policy. There are many post EY yeshivas that don’t have the freezer policy and in fact many bochurim specifically go to these yeshivos to avoid the freezer.
Who said it was a failed system? It’s a few months, for crying out loud. Don’t go crazy about it. Maybe times have changed, but that’s not for us to decide about it.
well the problem has to be solved moving forward unless you can magically create more older boys
As a father of girls in this predicament, and seeing how מבוזה they feel, I cannot help wondering what some of our boys’ leaders are thinking. This is פיקוח נפשות ממש!!!!
Done Roshei Yeshivos are well intentioned. They sincerely mean it for the Bochurs benefits and their Yeshivas benefit. They don’t realize how detrimental this is for the Bnos Yisroel. It’s like the guy making a hold in his cabin in the boat…. He’s sinking everyone else.
I hate saying this. As a Tzibbur (not R’ Gershon who did the opposite), we are doing too little in actions to turn the tide against this bad Gezariah which we created on ourselves. R’ Chaim Kanievsky said one cannot say that he has a Bashert if he starts Shidduchim in the mid 20’s.
What should the tzibbur be doing? Holding protest signs outside every Yeshiva? Only the Roshei Yeshiva & Rabbonim can make changes to the system & they haven’t done so yet. There’s also a large group of people who think the age gap theory must be false based on their interpretation of Chazal & instead blame the girls for being too picky. When a system becomes too rigid to adjust to the time’s, it’s becomes obsolete & ineffective. Our beautiful chinuch system will begin to crumble if the tzibbur looses their faith in it.
I am a mother of a boy in BMG. My son has been in shidduchim for over two years now, Iyh him and all those that need a shidduch should find their Bashert very soon. I was wondering why there isn’t any organization’s to help support boys in Shidduchim. The girls have an amazing organazation Ohel Saralah, kudos to them. However the boys have nothing, absolutely nothing. Where are the askanim out there to help the boys. I understand that what’s done for the girls wont necceseraly be right fit for the boys, but something tailor made for boys has to be started. I would appreciate some feedback on this.
I have been advocating for this for many years.
The boys and their parents have been demonized in the court of public opinion.
Boys need more support, especially since they recieve the vast majority of the rejections during the dating process.
I recently redt a number of shidduchim in the mid 20’s. All the No’s that came back were from the girl’s side.
I plan to begin a website guiding and encouraging boys through the shidduch process.
Long Time Shadchan
Boys compared to girls have more of a support system since they learn in Yeshiva for many years with other Bochurim and hopefully are close to a Rebbe or a Rosh Yeshiva to guide them. If he doesn’t have anyone he is close to, he should find someone. There are a few shidduchim mentors in BMG. Girls are out in the workforce and don’t have the same structure as the boys hence they need an outside support system, which take the place of the Yeshiva system, giving them Hashkafah and Chizuk and support. Yes it’s a Mitzvah for men to get married. Women weren’t commanded, do you know why? Because Hashem gave them in inherent desire to be married. A woman assumes the last name of her husband. Not the other way around. It’s the nature of a woman to be married hence the pain of not being married is much greater. Hashem created women to be an Akeres Habayis. The men are free to pursue their own interests while being married like learning Torah, working. It’s not the natural way of a woman to be career minded. Her career is her home and hence lacking it is her very essence she was created for. See Tefilas Chana for more details on this topic.
This isn’t the issue though. Ask the boys how many fen they give yeses. They don’t. Nobody is good enough. Rosh Hayeshiva encourage your boys to be realistic say yes and yes instead of no and no. Open your eyes to the real problem.
This crisis is a complete fabrication it is only two years. Just marry them anyway. It is ridiculous that this takes up so much of your time
just hire a madrich in Eretz Yisroel to guide the bochurim in the parsha of shidduchim and let them start dating 2-3 years earlier before they “come home to chill”
This speech should have been said in Yiddish so that the one that it was intended for, should understand it well!
Perhaps they should stop learning קדשים and start learning ״נשים״ and ״נזיקין״. There will then be more woman that will have ״זרעים״ and boys getting married earlier will surely bring more ״טהרות״. It’s already ״מועד״ for change!
I do not think it is fair to blame everything on one person. Just imagine for a moment that you are Reb Avraham Yehoshua and one day you found out that an Avreich in Lakewood blamed the entire Shidduch crisis on you, everything falls on your shoulder, you are to blame for everything.
At least proper Derech Eretz would mean to give Reb Avraham Yehoshua a heads up and let us hear his defense on this subject at the same time, during the same audio, let us hear what he has to say to defend himself.
I thought that the proper Mitzva of VeAhavta LeRaiacha Kamocha is that pretend that you are in his shoes and how would you like this Avreich to bring to us such a powerful audio. Wouldn’t you want an earlier heads-up.
In the merit of being super careful not to hurt the feelings of another Yid, Hashem will help us and the war in Eretz Yisroel will come to an end and all the hostages
בעזרת השם
will be returned to Eretz Yisroel.
Not letting the girls go out until 20/21 is the obvious solution on many facets.
1) It goes a long way to balance out the numbers.
2) It gives a girl more time to figure out what she really wants, thus cutting the growing divorce rate.
3) It gives the girl time to earn some money so the father doesn’t have to go broke promising what he can’t afford.
Having the boys go out before they are ready, would only add to the shidduch crisis on the other end when it ends in divorce.
I have seen only escalation of this crisis in the last 20 years. Freezer is easy enough to dispense with. This forum sponsored a gamach for dating expenses.
How about returning to the beshau type meeting? No frills, no expense. Sponsor homes- a beverage in a clean quiet environment. With or without parents time #1. Then, the money for the dating expense gamach can be used otherwise.
Learning is important. How about we refrain from setting a time-limit on how long the young man will learn? The ones that have the feeling to learn will be identified as wanting to learn as much as possible for as long as it’s feasible. The others will be Kovea Itiim and if there’s a third tier, they will be recognized as such and that’s fine. BECAUSE as much as the girls are told there are thousands of those Masmidim/long term learners (forever), we are not producing thousands. AS MUCH as the young women think they want it or that they can support it, they MAY NOT be able to. Marry for Midos. Marry for common ground. Understand that learning is a constant ingredient. I think these are feasible and worth the effort to implement. It might result in more shidduchim and even MORE learning! Good Shabbos in Adar. May we see the many girls who cry their eyes out on Purim, crying from JOY!
Oh please ! Completely disagree. Baloney!
The shidduch landscape today is way bigger then Brisk. It’s many other yeshivas and working boys to.
Rav Soloveitchik of Brisk does not make policy for anyone except his yeshiva.
He can say , I’m doing my thing here and if you across the globe think you have a problem , then go fix it yourself. And if your dumb enough to let me have such power because you can’t think for yourself, then suffer!
The last two words of your comment was really not necessary .
Is that the best you got ?
it’s time to start paying full time shadchanim by the hour so more dates and marriages will be made.
I fail to understand why anyone thinks Yagdil, Prager, the Mir or any other Yeshiva in Eretz Yisroel would listen or follow what Brisk does? Basically the premise here is that if Brisk changes their policy the others will as well meaning the the others would just shut down since the majority of their guys are the pre shidduchim age???? Will never happen.
Could it be that the Brisker Rosh Yeshiva as well as many other holy holy Roshei Yeshiva are well aware of the age gap theory but do not agree that the age gap is the problem? Meaning that we commentors – none of which are holy holy Roshei Yeshiva – have decided which side is right and which is wrong?
Is BMG the only option for boys returning from Eretz Yisroel therefore it’s only BMG and the freezer rule that’s at fault? Perhaps the fact that boys actually choose to (with their parents and Rabbeims guidance) go to BMG is the biggest proof that the Freezer is not the issue (or else why would anyone, let alone hundreds upon hundreds choose to go to a place that’s bad for their Shidduchim)
Anyone here want to tell me that within the 2000+ BMG bochurim (not avreichim) all of them are under 24?? Because if they are older than 24 then according to the age gap theorists they shouldn’t be single. They should be married as soon as they are out of the freezer.
Is anyone (other than our holy holy Roshei Yeshiva – once again which none of us commenters are) focused in the END RESULT of way to many of these marriages? Do we have a system in place to handle the terrible sholom bayis and divorce rate from the couples marrying young? Because our holy holy Roshei Yeshiva are dealing with this issue daily (not us commmenters) and they (to their credit) push away all this hocking noise of age gap andd instead focus on doing what they can that each talmid is zoche and ready and capable of having a kosher shel Kayama with a spouse.
Very convenient to knock Brisk. How about we find a realistic solution that can actually stand a chance to pan out in lmaysah? This one has absolutely no chance, and quite frankly will not solve it. Just think.
If we’re taking the approach that the Yeshivis gotta ultimately compromise, then aside for BM Yeshivos in America and Brisk in Yerushalayim compromising, I believe that BMG will also have to partake in that too – in a collective effort to give this a chance. This factor was conveniently omitted in this speech for obvious reason.
Let’s see all those at the helm of these מקומי תורה cave to this. Not a chance. Fantasy small news.
The whole age gap theory is based on the premise that there is some mistake chalila and there are more girls than boys being born. But that is simply not true. The fact is that there are more boys born EVERY YEAR than girls. This is based on raw data of babies born in lkwd the last 20 years.
Is there less of a Shidduch crisis in Eretz Yisroel because boys start dating younger (21)?
There are also many American Bochurim who decide to marry an Israeli girl since they want to settle in Eretz Yisroel “forever” (hint: a dira) so that also lowers the percentage of American boys coming back to America for shidduchim. I suggest the seminary girls date the Yeshiva Bochurim before coming back home. That will solve the problem!