Readers’ Scoop: Separate Entrances Should Be Enforced

To whom this may concern. Let me start by saying, I’m not a ‘frummie’. That said, I attended a wedding recently, and was very disturbed at what I encountered. As I approached the main men’s entrance, I honestly had to double check the sign to see if I’d mistakenly approached the wrong entrance.

Men, women, girls and boys were all gathered at the entrance, smoking, shmoozing and drinking in what looked like nothing less than a bar.

Is this what a Yiddishe wedding is supposed to look like?

If you come to a wedding to hang out, that’s not my business, but doing it at an entrance I’m supposed to be entering at, is my business. There is no reason I have to encounter this Shmutz, when attending a Yiddishe wedding.

I’m hoping the hall owners address this issue for future weddings.

Thank you.

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34 COMMENTS

  1. you may be right ,but to address the Hallowners or caterers is wrong.It is not their job to be the tznios police .They are not the ones who are bringing the crowd. It is up to the Baali simcha to set the tone by #1) to request a more promenant michitza in the hall entrance not a 2 or 3 cristmas trees. #2) make sure the shmorgaboard is kept seperate (maybe give the men 15 dishes since it is the women who are on diets) if you have a mixed affair inside why not outside?. #3) the kashrus organization should take some responsability in this area.

  2. This has become a ” heter” society. It is a deeper problem.It starts with a certain lack of respect. Not putting sefarim away,pushing chairs back under tables in Shul. Being late for Simchas. Driving(phones,stop signs, speeding,etc)
    I could go on but I think that my point is made. Derach HaTorah ? We can be light into our neighbors. But we must live it first

  3. I honestly do not believe that your experience is the norm by any means. Lakewood has halls with only one entrance (as do many other places) without men women girls and boys shmoozing drinking and smoking (were the woman smoking? scary.)

    Maybe your case is the weird one and the people who were attending that specific event were that kind of people, which of course would change nothing if there were separate entrances because they would all congregate in the lobby.

    I would leave an issue of separate entrenches to the rabbanim and just chill out.

  4. I think you should have addressed this letter to the person who runs the wedding hall at that location, the couple married, and to (moderated). Otherwise if non of them read this small article it was nothing but a wasted vent.

  5. take a chill pill and calm down
    that said your 100% right but you need to pick and choose your battles. your seeing the effect not addressing the cause
    will you hire someone to ENFORCE this breech of tznius at your wedding (perhaps a bouncer instead of the coat lady) or will you stand their all night to enforce it? will you perhaps include an insert together with your invitations asking everyone to please dress formally (black tie) and use the seperate gender entrances??
    who exactly are you aiming your musser to?
    i think a partial souloution would be to have one of the other 2 closed doors by the mens side open so people who are lazy and utilize the ladies entrance will have other options instead of walking a 1/2 block to enter the hall

  6. There are so many more important things to worry about. There is no mitzvah anywhere that says weddings have to be separate, other than the dancing. Are you concerned that men and women use the same entrance to pizza shops?

  7. That’s where kiruv begins. Start before walking in to the wedding. Invite a few boys or girls for a shabbos meal and get to understand them. Allow them to see the beauty behind the tznius campaign.

  8. A child was hit and killed by a hit-and-run driver Saturday (they’re still looking for them) in Lakewood, and this is so important? Thank G-D you don’t have to bury a child this week.

  9. i was recently at a wedding and i was happy to see that there werent any girls outside mixing with the guys. It depends on what type of crowd is at the wedding. It is certainly not something to make a huge deal over. the people you saw outside were maybe not from lakewood or even if they were from lakewood, it really has nothing to do with you. i would walk past them and ignore. sorry.

  10. To #1

    I hate to say it but the Torah says that we get punished for such activities. Many Gedolim have specifically said that young people are taken from this world as a result of these sins. Don’t make away with an issue that is quite serious indeed.

  11. To the writer of this letter. i do understand why you are upset and bothered by this particular wedding you attended that had this trief envirement outside the entrance. i have 2 points to make, first it was most likely a more out of town crowd at that particular wedding that set the tone, and not the norm that usually attend the average frum lakewood weddings. i have been to many lakewood weddings with different crowds and yes i have seen boys smoking and drinking outside but never direct mingling with girls. that brings me to my second point even if what you describe in your letter was the particular case at that wedding, was it really bothering you that much, that you had to “squeeze’ through that shmutz to get in the hall?? or more likely you saw 1 or 2 guys and girls having a convo and you being “Reitzed Un” by these yichidim and then blaming the whole lakewood wedding scene as being trief!!! in other words do you really care for the yidishkiet of those involved and it bothers you theres tumah or you just cant fagin a few people having a good time without bothering anyone so you have to make this into a whole issue?? be truthful to yourself!!

  12. #11 Get A Life has a real valid point , there are some who leave comments here that really are silly ,this article being one of them whats the big deal

  13. Dear original letter writer,
    I don’t know if this comment will get through, but it’s true nonetheless.
    Generally speaking, (yes, not always) the online crowd and those that comment are not from the best and finest in our circles.
    That’s why more often than not, the comments here will be slanted towards the more lenient take on things. You will see this time and time again when various Halachic and/or Tznius issues are discussed.
    Please do not be disheartened by the flippant attitude expressed above toward our values of Tznius. This is not a true sampling of what our Torah community is about.

  14. number 11 come on get real. why dont you click on every post and write your stupidity. yes, true she is happy she is not burying a child and shes also happy shes not begging for food and shes also happy she doesnt have all her kids off the derech and shes also happy her kids arent sick with an uncureable desiese R”L etc… poor woman tries to make a very valid point and you come back at her with such a moranic reply!! what does asking for a little tznius and morality have to do with thanking Hashem that her kid is breathing!!!!??? if your trying to tell her that she should be thankfull for whats good in her life you totaly chose the wrong way and time to bring it out. maybe you where trying to say that if klal yisroel was more carefull when it comes to taruvos we would see less and less tragic events in our community……but i doubt it.

  15. To #11. Have no idea what you’re talking about. All I said was “count your blessings.” That’s all. If that “moranic,” ok. I love my life: three grandchildren, one on the way. Everything is good. I thank G-D every day for what we have. Also, I’m A Christian, and my parents always instilled in us: Do unto others… Go-d bless you and your family. I forgive you.

  16. I’m willing to wager that 99% of these comments would not light up a single pixel if the commenters had the courage to use their real name.

  17. dear get a life, you dont comprehend how important modesty is to the jewish nation and you cant relate to the concept. jewish girls are brought up from age 2 with the vertues of modisty and its something that is drilled into them throughout there andalecints. you dont hear the importants in this womans voice when she stresses the importance of separate entrances. i do sincerly apologys if i affended you and you should continue to enjoy life to its fullest.

  18. talking about weddings, i think the rabbonim should say something about the music (AND SINGER) that is being played at weddings.
    it is very prost,loud and feels like a concert.
    A wedding is about being Mesameach the Chosson and Kallah. it’s not a rock concert.

  19. I don’t know which hall you are talking about. I go to many simchas in Lakewood and have probably seen all the halls, I haven’t seen such scenes as you are describing, even when men and women enter through the same entrance.

  20. At least two posters seem to imply that this writer is a woman. It really doesn]t matter but for the purpose of clarity every indication is that this poster is actually a man. Read the article again but this time do it a little slower and you’ll see.

  21. First of all, I am disturbed by the introduction “I am not a frummie”. What is that all about, maybe if we all be frummies this Shmutz would not have happened. It is not the hall’s responsibility, unless you want to impose a special restriction on the hall from now on (Kol Hakavod). However, let’s make it our obligation to make sure such incidents do not repeat themselves. Let’s make it our business to require from our leaders leadership. By Leaders I mean everyone, Roshay Yeshivos, Menahalim, Rabonim, Admoyrim, etc. you get the point. We came to this world to elevate the Kovoyd Malchus Shomayim, and everything is our responsibility. Let’s be all Frummies, Horay.

  22. To whom it may concern,

    When exiting a parking lot after a wedding, please STOP, and only proceed once the area is cleared. Don’t zoom forward, and hope for the best. Because next time, you will not be so lucky.

    Thank you,

    The driver you nearly t-boned.

  23. This posting makes it clear how frumkeit has become distorted. The OP cannot tolerate any activity that does not meet his or her machmir standards. Amazingly, this individual doesn’t seem to understand that he or she is indeed a “frumie”.

    Separation during dancing is a necessity, however, the rest of the separation is chumra.

    But wait, isn’t a wedding a social event? I guess not.

    Should people refrain from shmoozing? Sure, but that goes for men with men and women with women too (it leads to lashon harah, and really, shouldn’t we be learning, not shmoozing?)

    Tzniut os something that we should carry with us at all times – even at weddings or in the pizza shop. We need not inflict all of these additional fences – especially if they end up being viewed as halacha. We should act appropriately – as if Hashem is watching us (oh wait, he is).

  24. To the writer of the article grow up why are you online anyway? It’s a shame with all the true problems in this town and world you worry about this.

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