Over 20 Children Without School-Frustrated Parents Head To Rosh Hayeshiva

parents and children at R Malkiel(PHOTO taken a short time ago).(UPDATES in extended article). For many children, school started either yesterday or today. However, there are over 20 elementary girls who do not have a school to attend. Those children, until this year attended Ateres Tzipora, which started the new school year today. This year however, approximately 25 families pulled their daughters from the school claiming, some crucial elements of the schools founding principals, were changed. Many of these parents applied to Bais Faiga where they were not accepted-prompting a similar rejection from the other schools applied to. Many of the parents (some pictured with children), showed up to the Rosh Hayeshiva’s home a short time ago to continue to pressure various schools to accept their children. We will keep you posted with any further developments. TLS
U/D 5:45 p.m. TLS spoke with various people involved, including some parents-who say they are extremely satisfied with the school and claim the allegations from the above 25 or so parents against the school, are unfounded. We also spoke with someone from the school administration who said that the Rosh Hayeshiva Reb Malkiel Shlita gave the school a Bracha and stands firmly behind it. Furthermore, he added, the Hashkofoh of the school is under the guidance of Rebbetzin Basia Cohen-wife of Reb Simcha Bunim Cohen Shlita and granddaughter of Reb Avigdor Miller Zatzal. We will continue to bring you any further developments.
U/D 9:12 a.m. TLS has spoken to MANY people parents and Askanim on both sides of this story. It seems that many people including Rabbonim are being misquoted. Understandably, people feel very passionately about this matter and it is not our position to make sense of this story. However, please refrain from making any negative comments with names of Rabbonim, Askanim, current or former members of Ateres Tzipora. As usual, those comments will not be posted. May this issue be resolved as quickly as possible.

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115 COMMENTS

  1. I guess they should go back to their school? They will take them. I wonder in the Chofetz Chaims zt’l times have these issues? What will the R’Y do?

  2. it’s not as if they didn’t get accepted. they chose on their own to leave. maybe they should have made sure they had another option first. why should rabbonim and askonim help them? they did this to themselves. if they like the principal so much, they can home school them at her house. that’s if her husband lets.

  3. They should’ve trusted Rabbi Templeman. He was right on the money. Parents owe him and his rebbetzin a tremendous debt of hakoras hatov. Trust me – it’s not so easy being in the drivers seat.

  4. They Had a school and withdrew their kids before getting accepted to a new school? this is a problem that they created it is not a crisis for the rosh yeshiva

  5. This runnung to the RY is ridiculous
    While I certainly sympathize with a parent having valid reasons not to want to send their kids to a school that is not appropriate for their child , the Rosh Yeshiva is not some sort of magician that can fix every internal school issue or build a new school for them at ther snap of a finger .

  6. to a parent
    i feel more bad for your daughters than for you. you need to trust the administration of the school. if kanarek would get rid of his principal, no one would question him. if you don’t trust the administration. you shouldnt’ve send your kids there in the first place. you made your bed; now sleep in it.

  7. why do you mention bais faiga’s over other schools not accepting them there are 5 other large mosdos ie. Bais tovah ,BRR,Bnos yaakov,,Tiferes etc..

  8. To all fellow parents of our Lakewood private schools,
    We all try the best on behalf of our children. Boys/Girls no matter. I had this issue a few years ago and know others that had this issue too. Just hang in there. The good schools will buckle. Bais Faiga is holding out with 25 girls per class x 8 classes. They have enough room to accomodate. Please have a lot of Kavono when lighting Shabbos candles this week. It really works. Do not have negative thoughts, only positive and Hashem will listen.
    Please HKB”H, please put into the minds of Mrs. Epstein and the rest of the descision makers to open their doors now. It will happen eventually.
    We have tremendous Hakaros Hatov to Rabbi Menashe Frankel and all the others that are trying to be instrumental.
    I 100% that many administrators and hanhala read this blog. It’s important to type our stories so don’t be bashfull.

  9. Dear Final Word,
    How true are your statements. My daughter was home from school today. Thank you for your encouragement. I will have Kavana when I bench licht.

  10. Bais Faiga had a tumultuous year and they took a beating 25 X 8 is more than one can ask from them leave mrs. Epstein alone its time for the other mosdos to come down from their high hoarse and shtel tzu to the town .if they get services and land from the township let them be more accepting just like BF.

  11. Many of these parents applied to Bais Faiga where they were not accepted-prompting a similar rejection from the other schools applied to.

    I’m not from Lakewood, so perhaps I’m reading it wrong — but it sounds like being rejected from Bais Faiga will cause your kid to become blacklisted at other schools.

    Is that true, or was it just a poor choice of words?

    The Wolf

  12. if they got rid of possick and we all know that r belsky is just a name on paper and probably has no shaychus at all with the school. so what does moshe rabinowitz have to say, he is a man of words.

  13. Nobody has to take more than 25 in a class if they dont want to . What gives parents the right to demand that school go agasinst their education criteria of class sizes that was promised to hundreds of parents ,to accomodate new parents that are not satisfied with their existing school . Once yo go to 26 then they will say 27 and 28 and there is no limit

  14. From what I know Bnos Rivka has no problem taking anyone who wants to return, back. Over 20 kids have returned to Bnos Rivka this year from Ateres Tziporah. These parents are unwilling to stay in Ateres Tziporah, unwilling to return to Bnos Rivka, and it is the whole towns problem? They can also send to Bais Yaakov. I have no pity on them.

  15. It was probably a poor choice of words . But in any case ,Bais Faiga is the largest school with 8 parallel classes . If they dont accept because of lack of room ,obviously the others arent going to start accepting because that would mean putting 30 or 40 kids into a few classes with no room .

  16. BNOS RIVKA SHOULD NOT TAKE THEM BACK SO EASILY. THEY SHOULD ALL GO BEGGING MECHILLA FROM RABBI TEMPLMAN BEFORE THEY GET ACCEPTED INTO ANY SCHOOL ESPECIALLY BNOS RIVKA. I’M SO JEALOUS OF HIS ZECHUSIM ESPECIALLY AT THIS TIME OF YEAR. I WISH HIM MUCH BROCHA AND HATZLACHA.

  17. I do not understand these people you have Rabbi and Reb S B cohen standing behind thid mosod. What more do you want. These people should not be allowed into any schools

  18. I understand that many parents aren’t too happy with the new administration at Bnos Rivka. I hear that many parents would do anything to have Rabbi Templman return. They miss his eidelkeit and emesdikeit. I hear teachers also miss his cheerful personality and his timely paychecks.

  19. I personally know the people involved in the school and a decision was made by the hanhala that some parents are disappointed with. Its a decision made. Thats it.
    These people are just upset that “THEY” werent involved in the decision. They all agree that it was the right move, but are just upset they werent involved in making the decision.
    The Roshei Yeshiva are fully behind the decision that was made. So is Rabbi Forscheimer, Rabbi Rabinowitz, R’ Simcha Bunim, Rabbi Gissinger etc.

  20. I would send my child to a school that is backed by Rabbi and Reb S b Cohen. She is the queen of hashkofoh and tznuis and he is a huge torah personality. How exactly is this a concern?

  21. I am very disappointed with this post on Ateres Tzipora.I am a parent in the school who did send my daughter today. You are not reporting news, but loshen hara. This should not be put on a website where anyone can see it. Any parent who did not send today will make their decision on how to proceed. Please let us work it out privately without the whole town knowing the shmutz.

  22. This is the problem with lakewood. People think that they could go against rabbonim and get away with it and bashmutz people. The facts are that all the Rabbonim including Rabbi Cohen, Rav Moshe Rabinowitz stand behind the mosos, not to mention Rav Malkiel. Enough already

  23. It’s about time that people get sensible. These parents just a few years ago when they were making their decision where to send their daughters chose NOT to send to Bais Faiga. Now, why must Bais Faiga must take them in?! Lets all [not just these parents who are in this sad predicament] Have Kavana By candle lighting to end this sickness of POLITICS! Luz Up!

  24. Because these people left, and the school still added another class, kein yirbu, they are short A LOT of money.
    If you can, donate to them. They never missed a paycheck, and the choshuveh board members have the whole burden on their shoulders.
    (I heard from R’ Shmuel Kamanetzky, shlit”a, that giving to a girls school is maaser)

  25. Why do we all have to know all the details all the time, why can’t it be enough that all the Rabbonim back this school. That list of Rabbonim speaks volumes

  26. FACT = Rabbi Belsky is off the vaad Hachinuch

    FACT = Rabbi Possic (who helped start Ateres T) is no longer there

    FACT = Rebetzin Grama (the school was built around) is no longer…..

    FACT = Rabbi Mandel (started and ran the school) no longer there

    FACT = All this action was taken by INDIVIDUALS without any concent from the school’s parents or rabbonim. Only after they did what they wanted did they try and get the Askanim inn town’s approval.

    CLAIM = Rabbonim who had nothing to do with any of these drastic moves, back the school

    CLAIM = The school is under the “leadership” of certain chashuver Rabbonim and Rebbetzins

    LETS STICK TO THE FACTS

    IF YOU ARE GOING TO COMMENT, BACK IT UP WITH PROOF

    GOOD LUCK TO ALL

  27. a yid said;
    The facts are that all the Rabbonim including Rabbi Cohen, Rav Moshe Rabinowitz stand behind the mosos, not to mention Rav Malkiel. Enough already

    100% not true!! I won’t go in to details. But lets put it this way, can you get me something in writing?

  28. I am still wondering – the parents are upset over the “founding Principals” I t most be they are not following halacha in that school, they aren’t shomer shabbos? What exactly is it? I think they all should go back to the school and stop making issues over some petty hashkofo and worry about serious issues. I really think many young people in town do not have in mind the bigger picture. They think their kid will stay naive for the rest of their life and shelter them forever but unfortunatly the truth is many teens do what they want and as a kid they need to have a “varma ” atmosphere in a school and home to be matzliach when it counts – after bar and bas mitzva so go back to the school and enjoy the “vorma” atmosphere in all the wonderful mosdos of Lakewood.

  29. It’s amazing that people with little or no knowledge of the situation can make such strong statements. The owners of this school, who unknowingly to the parents took over, replaced the principal and changed the flavor of the chinuch, against most of the parents wishes. Now the parents have had their free will taken away and they are forced to stay there???? Mind boggling.

  30. a yid said;
    The facts are that all the Rabbonim including Rabbi Cohen, Rav Moshe Rabinowitz stand behind the mosos, not to mention Rav Malkiel. Enough already

    100% not true!! I won’t go in to details. But lets put it this way, can you get me something in writing?

    why do u need anything in writing ask them like i did its 100% true, the problem in this town is that if the rabbonim put something in writing they get harassed by these gangsters, ask rav moshe rabinowitz what he went through for putting his neck out on the line for the school,

  31. set the record straight says:
    September 9, 2009 at 11:33 pm
    It’s amazing that people with little or no knowledge of the situation can make such strong statements. The owners of this school, who unknowingly to the parents took over, replaced the principal and changed the flavor of the chinuch, against most of the parents wishes. Now the parents have had their free will taken away and they are forced to stay there???? Mind boggling.

    as a parent of the school, i can say that i was very happy with the
    school, and i was very happy with the people who took over the financial part of the school, they are very erlich and speak over everything with the rabbonim in town, what i find funny is that all u parents who are concerned with the flavor of the chinuch of the school, you would think that u would have send ur kids to gateshead or bais rivka rochel for 5 years, my g-d, take it easy. what i find mind boggling is all the people who are so fast to knock the 2 people who supported the school, have paid nothing or close to it, were is your yasher choach to them for paying ur tuition, how about buying them a nice basket of candy

  32. To Yeshivah Guy,how can you call yourself a yeshiva guy if you dont practice mdvar sheker tirchoik.Iwa a parent in the school and paid full tuition as did many other parents who left!!Where do you come off making such false accusations!!!!!You have no credibillity and should be ashamed of yourself!!!

  33. I spoke to 5 out of the 7 rabbanim that were quoted here. They all said “shecker”!!

    I am not shocked in the least bit. Perhaps a little more kavod for our rabbanim should be in place?

    Just say, “I did or said what I wanted”. Why the need to try and substanciate your actions (falsely) by claiming you had/have Daas torah??

    Guess what. They wish you would leave them alone.

    Act like a “mentch” and follow Daas Torah ALWAYS. Not just when you need them to bail you out.

    Horav Belsky Shlita told me that he WAS involved. He took his name off the Vaad Hachinuch because people were taking drastic actions without his Haskama.

  34. Ateres tzipora is a great school! Run by great people! great Principals! Great Teachers! Great students! If these people dont wanna send there then thats fine. let them “home-school” their kids. No mosad should take them. All these people are trying to do is destroy a Mosad hatorah for absolutely no reason.
    The Lakewood public school I heard has some spots!

  35. 1) Why are four out of eight board members no longer in the school?
    2) How did a board of eight, become 2?
    3) Can TLS interview one person from each side?
    4) What happened to Elul?

  36. Its Amazing . Parents are all bent out of shape because they say that the ” FLAVOR ” of Chinuch has been changed and is not acceptable to them .

    Yet when certain schools do not accept certain parents because the schools “FLAVOR ” of chinuch is different than the parents Hashkofo and lifestyle ,then these same parents cry foul and say that everybody is entitled to get into every school ,by virtue of their living in Lakewood .

    A double standard ,in my opinion .

  37. “Ribono Shel Oilam says:
    September 10, 2009 at 12:59 am
    Ateres tzipora is a great school! Run by great people! great Principals! Great Teachers! Great students! If these people……….”

    B”H, YOU ARE NOT THE RIBONO SHEL OILAM. IT’S SAD BUT I DON’T BELIEVE HASHEM AGREES WITH YOUR COMMENT AT ALL!!!

  38. To the post, FACTS:

    Just because you write your CLAIMS in CAPS doesn’t make them the truth- It shows that you are ANGRY.
    Amongst the people who you listed are no longer with school (which is an accurate list in that regard), are people who were told by rabbonim to LEAVE.
    R’ Rabinowitz directly told one of the people on that list that the only problem was them- because they made problems THE WHOLE LAST YEAR (this was not a “takeover” over the summer).
    Also, why are people calling up AT parents telling them not to send their kids?
    Just leave and go to a different school.
    AT parents never called parents of Bnos Rivkah kids to tell them not to send there.
    If YOU think you have a better idea of chinuch, then start your own school and prove it.
    Sheesh.

    For the record- Mr. Mandel did not START the school. He was hired as an administrator, which seems he did fine. Also, why in the world were R’ Belsky and R’ Possic on a board pf a Lakewood school? Rabbis Gissinger, Forcheimer, Cohen amd Rabinowitz’s involvement makes alot more sense.

    P.S. Who is Rabbi Possic?

  39. Rabbi Templeman is a special person and how dare you say that a week before rosh hashona. the mesiras nefesh that he put into the school can never be repaid. It is HE that is getting the zchusim from BOTH schools.

  40. first of all, a lesson in some basic English –ACCEPT, not EXCEPT!! if you would have gone to Ateres Tzipora you would have learned some basic spelling.

    second of all, the Hashkofa hasnt changed – the principal has. Clearly this was not done on a whim- a big decision like this is not made lightly. Why is everyone assuming the Hashkofa will change? INstead of pulling your kids out, why dont you sit tight and see how this year pans out? Give the new principal a chance, instead of getting all riled up. I believe it will work out great!

    thirdly, to the person who commented about their freedom of choice being taken away, sorry to say you never had any. PROOF: if you would have choice you would be in a different school altogether. There IS NO CHOICE in Lakewood. (Speak to all the high school girls who were told where they are going regardless of their “choices”)

  41. to mr enough
    you should only be a good of a yid like rabbi templman. the acts of chesed that he did and still does is a shining example for all. the mere fact of what he did l’maan hasholom is very noteworthy. he swallowed his pride and didn’t say a word while he himself was being bashmutzed from the former principal. he is truly a tzadik.

  42. I spoke to Harav S.B. Cohen. He said that the school is NOT under his rebbetzins “guidance”.

    He did say that she is however AVAILABLE to the school (as she is available to others as well) for guidance.

    The Rav also said “don’t believe everything you read or see in my name”.

    I think the last update was very accurate. Amen!!

  43. To yagayaga
    September 10, 2009 at 9:32 am

    First of all, it was not just a principle that has left. It is Rabbonim, parents, teachers and founders of the school.

    Secondly, there is no new principle. Its Mrs. Insil the old english priciple.

    Thirdly, if you are happy there, good for you. I hope you continue to be happy there. But don’t insult those who are unhappy with the change in leadership, management and guidance.

  44. When the split between AT and BR happenned there were many parents who went to AT only because of MrsG. Now that MrsG. is out of AT these people are unhappy with the school.

    BR has taken back kids from AT that have expressed an interest in coming there.

  45. Dear Chosheve Tzibur
    If anyone is still looking for a great kaboleh (new years resolution) may I humbly recommend that we accept upon ourselves to stop reading and commenting on all the kosher blogs, coffee rooms, and letters to the editors in all the kosher magazines and newspapers. I can tell you personally that through out the year I have read, (and posted) loshon harah, moitzy shemrah, rechilus, and stam shtusem. We have all read comments, misquoting, knocking, belittling, and accusing Gedoilim, Rabonim, Mechanchim, Askonim, and the simple poshete yidin. I think its safe to say that very little good comes from all this.
    May we all be zoche to a kesiva vechasima tovah and git gebenched yur.
    Signing of for good

  46. Wow. If every time a school administration made personell cahnges ( even principals ) we are going to get headlines that 20 Children have no school ” then we are in for trouble.

  47. To BR parent who thought an AT parent is doing moderating:
    I can tell you first hand as an AT parent who is fully behind the school, my posts (yes, very passionate ones) have for the most part not been published.
    So no, an AT parent must not be moderating.

  48. First of all nobody called parents and told them not to send, that is a lie and would be counter productive.Why would they want more kids school less to make it even harder for them to get in else where.And the genious who spoke about these parents not paying tuition,you either dont know your facts,or perhaps you are running the school and are a liar because myself and many other parents who left paid full tuition.

  49. If they like Mrs. G so much why not start their own school?
    Why do they have to attack the old school?
    The board of AT put their sweat and tears into the school, and their MONEY into the school.
    Why don’t these 20 families either admit they were wrong or learn from the board of AT’s mesiras nefesh to further what they believe in?

  50. You people are a bunch of clowns. i heard these stories and i thought they were not serious. send you kid to public school and stop freaking out over every little thing.

  51. “First of all nobody called parents and told them not to send, that is a lie”
    Tell that to my wife who got the call.
    And to the teachers who told my wife they got calls to.
    Who’s a liar?

  52. Why are they rewarding these people’s behavior?
    So the best way to get your kids into a gtood school is to make a rukus, bashmutz ehrliche people, and storm the Rosh Yehsiva’s lawn.
    Got it, I’ll pass it on.

  53. Could somebodt please explain once and for all what the concern is with replacing the principal and what Hashkofah issues are aT STAKE HERE . nOBODY SEEMS TO KNOW . Changing a principal is not a reason for such a ruckus . There must be something more going on here

  54. To Hashkafa:
    The ruckus is from individuals who are upset that they weren’t included in the board’s decision. The school has reopened with the same teachers and NO CHANGE IN HASHKAFA.

  55. Im Sorry . I find it hard to believe that these parents are making such a ruckus about no changes in Hashkofah ,but only because they were not consulted about something that they really have no problem with anyway ? Does that make sense to you ?

  56. i cant take it anymore when people say someone is a great special person. a person is defined by there actions not the way they look. i am a person who grew up in lakewood a remember when the cheder took everyone and bais faiga did as well. i had a girl home because no school would take her in it took till after succas to get her in. every day she would ask am i going to school today??? and i had to say soon we are trying. what did that do to her for the long term? you say someone is a tzadik? define what that means? is it to be a judge and jury?is it to say to someone your no good?is it to listen when a rosh hayeshiva says take this child and they say no?????

  57. Hashkafa,
    You must be a sensible person, and fail to recognize that ego has a tremendous negative effect on people, and causes them to act irrationally. They also are making a ruckus because THEY wanted Mrs. Grama. For whatever reasons, the Rabbonim thought she and the school should part ways.
    My is in the school today- there is nothing different about the school other than some personel changes at top.

  58. we as jews are more anti Semitic then any others. these are our children we are putting this thru. Think about our kids cant go to school because why?????

  59. The rabbonim did NOT feel that the school should part with Mrs. Grama

    Speak to the teacher and staff that stayed and ask them if the school has the same flavor.

  60. What exactly does ” the same Flavor ” mean . If a principal changes ,of course her personality will change . But did the Hashkofah and yiddishkeit of the school change in any way ? I am not involved . I am just sincerely asking to understand what caused this huge ruckus . There have been no explanations yet given here other than ” changed Flavor of the principal ” and I dont really understand that .

  61. The teachers that are currently in the school believe that rabbonim told Mrs. Grama to leave. And the haskofa is no different. In fact, some teachers would have left had she come back.

  62. as a parent, i would like people to know,that mrs.i.is a person who has been involved in chinuch for over 20 years.the love and warmth that she gives over to her students is truly amazing.she is a true mechanach.i would like to bet that the parents who pulled out, will come back next year begging to be let back in.

  63. such nonsense.the rabbonim didnt fire mrs gramma two people running the school did.there arent any rabbonim at the school except rabbi Cohen now.THE BOARD DIDNT EITHER FIRE ANYBODY BECAUSE THERE IS NO BOARD THEY WERE THROWN OUT BY THE NEW ADMINISTRATION.CANT YOU PEOPLE GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT????

  64. “Facts straight?”
    The two board members founded the school (that’s why it’s called Ateres Tziporah)- they’re not “new administration”.
    There are Rabbonim involved in the school as the two sides went jointly to Rabbi Rabinowitz, Rabbi Forcheimer, Rabbi Cohen, and Rabbi Gissinger is involved (and supporting the school) as well.
    WRITING IN CAPS DOESN’T MAKE YOU RIGHT
    You’re just trying to yell while typing, and saying that anyone who disagrees with your agenda is full of nonsense and trying to use the word “FACTS” as if it’s an end all to all arguments.
    Just because you say don’t make it true.

  65. Thank you special ed!!!!

    I’m sure your comment will too be deleted soon because you spoke the truth!!

    TLS please stop deleting comments due to protektzia.

  66. I did my research before I sent my children to AT. I was not from BR. I trusted the fact that Mrs.Gramar was running the school along with the vaad harabonim and Rabbi Mandel. I was very happy with the level of hashkafa and acedemics. I was not happy that there was a very defined divide between the hebrew and english department. It was noticible from the bottom up.
    I complained to R’ Mandel and to Mrs. Grama. I was sent to the vaad hachinuch. I was told that they are aware of the problem are working on it. I later found out that the principles weren’t seeing eye to eye, and that the owners were siding with one of them……

    To make a long story short, I took my children out because, all of the reasons that I sent my daughters to the school are no longer there.

    I wish the school well, but I just can’t trust it no more.

  67. As an outsider looking in all I can say is you people should be ashamed of yourselves. Makes me glad to know that I live in NY. And by the way I do know the full inside scoop of what went on in AT and boy how way off target most of you posters are.

  68. once again you are using the internet to spew lies and hatred.the reason its called Ateres Tzipora is because of one of the founding board members.As is always the case the ones who have the money get their names on schools.What you are forgetting to mention of course is the fact that it was started with 6 other board members and were then thrown out HENCE:A NEW ADMINISTRATION. hOW CONVENIENT OF YOU TO LEAVE OUT THE TRUTH MR.PSYCHIATRIST!!

  69. i saw the letter thar grama wrote. she clearly states that it is her decision not to return because the administration wanted certain changes. she had the option to modify her flavor but she chose not to.

  70. PLEASE STOP!!!!!!!!!! 56 HOURS LEFT TO SLICHOS.

    DEAR SITE MODERATOR,

    PLEASE SHUT DOWN THIS BLOG UNTIL AFTER HOSHANA RABA. THEN PLEASE REOPEN IT SO THAT WE CAN CONTINUE TO SPEW SHEKER, LOSHON HARA, MOTZEI SHEM-RA AND SOLVE THE WORLDS PROBLEMS.

    INSTEAD, PLEASE START A BLOG FOR ASKANIM TO EXPLAIN WHY OUR PROPERTY TAXES ARE GOING UP AND WHY OUR APPEALS WERE NOT HONOURED.

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